Say that two parents are Catholics. They have a son who is an Atheist. He is not disrespectful at all to their religion. Do you think it is reasonable for his parents to force him to go to church every week and to punish him if he decides not to?

Could you give reasons to your answers, please?



[This message has been edited by sellout_10 (edited 11-08-2004).]

They really should not force thier beliefs on their child but there is not much the child can do about it. If it is really a huge problem the child should move out as soon as posible or use all of his or her debating skills and patience to try to get their point across. The second option is a longshot at best.

The majority of Catholics don't force their religion unto other people, including their children.

Only dumbfuck Protestants do that.

Mr. Witoslawski

P.S.Bump!

My mom never forced me to go to church, she just guilt-tripped me into it. It taught me a very valuable lesson about life: guilt is a very good tool that you can use to make people do things they don't want to. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

I think it would be wrong, but I'm not the parents. When it comes to those kinds of things in parenting I like to keep my fool mouth shut about it.

Cheers,

Lost

Well, I'm sure they have your best interests at heart. If you're not an adult yet, just listen to your parents and bear with it. They are the ones trying to take care of you so respect that. It's not like they are forcing you to be a prostitute or something, right?

Personally, my mom never bugged me about if after our first discussion on religion.

I don't even remember how it came about, but we were talking about the church. I really beat her at the argument, and she has never even asked me to go to church since.

I go to christmas and easter mass voluntarily.

sleep in then go to work or go to church miss two hours of pay then go to work.....you be the judge.

I think if my parents had done that to me I would take a bible every sunday. I would read the whole fucking thing, then I would be able to come up with a suitable argument for not going anymore with snippets of bible verse to back me up.

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

Say that two parents are Catholics. They have a son who is an Atheist. He is not disrespectful at all to their religion. Do you think it is reasonable for his parents to force him to go to church every week and to punish him if he decides not to?

Could you give reasons to your answers, please?



[This message has been edited by sellout_10 (edited 11-08-2004).]



Hey, that sounds like me! My parents are Catholic and, as a teenager, I was an atheist. I told them I didn't want to go to church anymore, and they decided to punish me by taking away my CD player. (The connection between religious belief and music still escapes me.)

I decided I wanted to listen to music, so I said, "Fine, I'll go to church, but I'm not receiving Communion." (It just seemed disrespectful to me since I didn't believe in transubstantiation. Or even God, for that matter.) They agreed to that, and they gave me back my CD player.

I remember going to church and counting all the boards in the ceiling or all the bald people's heads. God, it was boring.

Ha - that brought back memories. That was ten years ago, when I was 16. My parents don't discuss religion any longer with me. I normally do go to church on Christmas and Easter now, but that's more out of respect for my family than any personal convictions.

Anyway, I don't think it's right but there's probably nothing you can do. They are your parents, and if you still live with them you should probably listen to them. (They pay for your expenses; that's my reason.)

Maybe you could just see church as a meditative time to think about how you can be a better person, rather than a time to submit to Catholic doctrine. Or maybe that's not your thing, either. Anyway, just suck it up and try to find something positive about it. I had to do it, too! Soon you'll be on your own and providing for yourself, and you won't have to go to church.



[This message has been edited by Lolita (edited 11-08-2004).]

Your parents own you. They can make you, or kick you out if you refuse.

That said, if they make you go, they're assholes.

Surah is right, your parents have the final authority, you can fight but be prepared to have your ass kicked with consequince.

I have the exact same situation, I've yet to confront them. It won't be fun, but I have to do it eventully.

quote:Originally posted by Preston:

I have the exact same situation, I've yet to confront them. It won't be fun, but I have to do it eventully.

I was there 2 years ago. You just gotta do it. Trust me, it's not nearly as bad as it seems.

My mom cried when we talked about it. But I just sucked it up, and since then, she's never even mentioned church to me.

Yeah, before I told my parents that I didn't really follow their beliefs, they made me go to church only about once a month. Now that I've told them, it's as if they're trying to convert me by sending me to church every week. They think I'm going to just convert to Catholicism because I'm forced to go to church every week.

I think that it is a parents responsibility to attempt to instill what they believe is right in their child. That said, I am not a huge advocate of punishment. Punishment does not accomplish very much, and more often just creates resentment.

However, if you are minor child, it would behoove you to cooperate. You have already let them know where you stand, I think that's commendable. But they still have authority over you, and why create any more friction for yourself than necessary? When you have become emancipated, then you can have full control over your life.

Maybe you could turn going to church with them into a good thing. Use it to learn more deeply what it is about the religion that you don't believe and why. I don't think that is 'selling out'. Learning is always good.

[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 11-10-2004).]

an hour a week to reflect will build character i would force it upon my children probably not in a church though..

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

Say that two parents are Catholics. They have a son who is an Atheist. He is not disrespectful at all to their religion. Do you think it is reasonable for his parents to force him to go to church every week and to punish him if he decides not to?

Could you give reasons to your answers, please?

Yes, it is reasonable to force. Yes, it is reasonable to punish.

Reasons for my answers...

Parents are responsible for their childrens actions.

If a person is a believer in The Christ, that person believes that Jesus is God. If that person believes in God, then that person believes that the Bible is God's Word. If God's Word says that all have sinned and are going to Hell for eternity unless you believe in the Work of The Son of God on the cross, then shouldn't a believer want to be saved. An if that person believes these things, isn't it reasonable to want salvation for his /her loved ones. And if one believes these things, wouldn't punishment be a small loss, if it might prevent an even greater loss of that loved one going to Hell for eternity?

Also, a person that i work with, once said, "why should i believe in God when it was told to me by people that are not my loved ones? I would find it easier to believe if a friend or someone in my family told me about God."

This is like saying, "i dont believe that smoking causes cancer, because i didnt hear it from someone that cares about me."

quote:Originally posted by outcast:

[B]Maybe you could turn going to church with them into a good thing. Use it to learn more deeply what it is about the religion that you don't believe and why. I don't think that is 'selling out'. Learning is always good.

B]

That sounds like a good idea but...I know pretty much everything that they know about it. I've been going to a catholic school for about 11 years now. I don't think there's much more I can learn at church. Am I wrong?

sellout_10, I couldn't say if you're right or wrong. I don't know what you know nor do I know what they know.

How many years do you have before you're on your own and is it worth the battle? Maybe it is to you and my previous advice is wrong. If it is THAT important to you then, by all means stay firm. But pick and choose your battle's in life wisely.

I received this today from a friend of mine and I thought you might be interested in what he had to say:

--------------

...I suggest you forget your arguments. There is no use destroying a family over a mythology system, you may hold your own dissenting points of view from within and teach your child tolerance. Unhappiness is a major drive in life, few folks are happy with their lives. Few like to face up to their existence, and remain asleep. They remain trapped within the pain of their lives. Erich Fromm, the humanist-psychologist wrote,

"Mental health, in the humanistic sense, is characterized by the ability to love and to create, by the emergence from the incestuous ties to family and nature, by a sense of identity based on one's experience of self as the subject and agent of one's powers, by the grasp of reality inside and outside of ourselves - that is, by the development of objectivity and reason. The aim of life is to live it intensely, to be fully born, to be fully awake. to emerge from the ideas of infantile grandiosity into the conviction of one's real though limited strength; to be able to accept the paradox that everyone of us is the most important thing there is in the universe - and at the same time no more important than a fly or a blade of grass."

People talk about life rather than living it. They must do something rather than be.

--------

Food for thought anyway. I wish you well in your endeavors.

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

That sounds like a good idea but...I know pretty much everything that they know about it. I've been going to a catholic school for about 11 years now. I don't think there's much more I can learn at church. Am I wrong?

many religious scholars and theologens study have studied much of their lives, and i doubt any of them would say that they "know pretty much everything" about it.

I do know that just about everytime i open the Bible or go to church, i learn something new. The times i dont learn something new, it is usually because i either am not paying attention or i am stuck on one of my preconcieved understandings. Much of learning is built off of things already learned.

Dont ever think that you know everything about a subject, because when you do, that is when you will not learn anything more.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Dont ever think that you know everything about a subject, because when you do, that is when you will not learn anything more.



Woah, I never said I knew everything about it. I said that I know pretty much everything they [my parents] know about this faith and that I don't believe I'll learn any substantial new material at church.

Thanks for that, outcast.

Anyone who thinks they know anything about anything related to God doesn't understand the very fundamnetal beliefs of him, because he is so great we can never hope to learn enough to consider substantial, we can learn enough to be able to believe, but there is always something more to seek after

Fuck. I never said that I knew everything about god. I know basically everything my parents know about the religion. Not about god. About the faith. Do you see the difference?

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

Fuck. I never said that I knew everything about god. I know basically everything my parents know about the religion. Not about god. About the faith. Do you see the difference?

I see the difference sellout. They are not the same thing.

They say that God is unknowable. I think it must be then [if there is a God] just like how I can't know what it is to be you, any more than you can know what it is to be me. We simply cannot know what we are not.

Maybe it depends on how you define 'know'.

[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 11-14-2004).]