Is there any difference between these two types of sin?

1. The "oops I cursed/ had lustful thought", some other type of sin which was accidental, and the person is honestly sorry.

2. When someone sins, knowing full well what they are doing, knowing full well that it is a sin, and wrong, but banking on having accepted Christ as suffecient to shield them from any fall out. Completely unrepentant.

Yes, I am talking about Christianity, and no, I don't accept what you have to say unless you're Digital, jakketch, or one of the few other people who know what the hell they're talking about.

My understanding is that you must be repentant in order for your sins to be forgiven.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

My understanding is that you must be repentant in order for your sins to be forgiven.

But that clashes with the ideal that all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

But that clashes with the ideal that all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ.

I believe the Christians would use circular logic on this question: If you TRULY believed in Jesus Christ, you would be repentant for your sins.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

But that clashes with the ideal that all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ.

The way I understand it, part of "accepting Jesus" (whatever that means) involves repentence.

I find a far less clumsy paradigm in the concept of discipleship. Discipleship starts with the choice to "come, follow me". This will always entail living things behind, including a way of life. Running back after those things is always going to cause dramas along the journey, but I don't see them as causing you to cease to be on that path.

Back to the OP though, at a broad level, all sin is seen to be the same (within protestant xianity). I think in more practical terms though, there are differences between sins. As you pointed out, motivation is a big factor, especially when christian ethics aren't necessarily always from a cut and dried list like say Fundamentalist Islam or Orthodox Judaism (or fundamentalist christianity for that matter).

Also considering that God generally leaves us to work out the consequences of our actions, I think that provides a further contrast between sins.

hmmm that was pretty incoherent....

But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.

-Ezekiel 18:24

Hope that helped.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.

-Ezekiel 18:24

Hope that helped.

Actually, that does. I was thinking of people who bomb abortion clinics, and how that would work out.

First you really need to define the concept of 'sin'

and to be honest..i can't and i doubt anyone here can.

and as to specific actions constitute a sin then thats something christians will never agree on.

infact you can probably safely ignore 90% of what most christians say on the subject of sin.

for example many of them will tell you that 'premarital sex' is a sin (which just shows how confused their thinking is).



[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 11-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Actually, that does. I was thinking of people who bomb abortion clinics, and how that would work out.

I'm sure they've found a way to justify it. lol... probably fulfills the "Just War" criteria.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

First you really need to define the concept of 'sin'

Try this: If you do not love your fellow man as you love yourself then that is a sin.

So, whenever you take an action, but you have only considered the consequences of that action from your own point of view, but not from someone else's point of view, then you have sinned. You were selfish about it.

But then when you realize that you did not put yourself in another's shoes, and now you make an effort to do so, then you are repentant, and are no longer sinning.

But, even when you do this, you will still be missing the point of view of someone else, or you will not know someone else's point of view well enough, so you are sinning again, but you can realize this and repent again and keep striving to be like God, which you will never do completely, but that striving is the purpose of life, and even though we may do better and better we will never be good enough, but that is good enough for God because we are trying. But when we aren't trying, that isn't good enough.

And we may look at someone else and say "They aren't trying and they are sinful". But aren't we in that same situation, just to a different degree, and so why are we judging them? So we realize that we are all sinful, and we are all also trying in our own ways, and it is a journey we are on, and so we are all condemmed but also saved if we want to be saved.

quote:Try this: If you do not love your fellow man as you love yourself then that is a sin.

yes i agree . i usually find that if i'm mentally justifying some deed or course of action then its likely to be wrong.

but what i meant by a definition of sin is something different.

quote:and so we are all condemmed but also saved if we want to be saved.

no.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

but what i meant by a definition of sin is something different.



Such as?

They all mean the same, they are just explained at different levels of understanding (kinda like how holy books explain life at different levels of understanding).

'Sins' forgiven by whom?

If one 'sins' against another, isn't it the forgiveness of the one wronged that one should seek? And in doing so making reparations to that individual? If that is not done, then there is not true repentance (or acknowledgement of the wrong one has done).



The only decent definition of 'sin' that I have heard is 'that which is unloving, causing harm to others'. That is the best thing I've ever heard in regard to defining 'sin'.

We are made to be both 'sinner and saint' are we not?



But then, what do I know...not being enmeshed in Christian doctrine.

quote:We are made to be both 'sinner and saint' are we not

some of us more than others http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Christianity is a religion based on fear and denial. Once you grok that, a lot of their myths and rites begin to make sense. Sort of.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

First you really need to define the concept of 'sin'

and to be honest..i can't and i doubt anyone here can.

and as to specific actions constitute a sin then thats something christians will never agree on.

infact you can probably safely ignore 90% of what most christians say on the subject of sin.

for example many of them will tell you that 'premarital sex' is a sin (which just shows how confused their thinking is).

In short, sin is disobeying God.

jackketch, from what you posted, there is nothing that "(which just shows how confused their thinking is)" about premarital sex

quote:In short, sin is disobeying God.

no

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

no



now wait a minute...didnt you say,

"jackketch

Regular posted 11-09-2004 07:07 Click Here to See the Profile for jackketch Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote

First you really need to define the concept of 'sin'

and to be honest..i can't and i doubt anyone here can.

and as to specific actions constitute a sin then thats something christians will never agree on.

infact you can probably safely ignore 90% of what most christians say on the subject of sin.

for example many of them will tell you that 'premarital sex' is a sin (which just shows how confused their thinking is).

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 11-09-2004).]

IP: Logged"

and i would like to emphasize "and to be honest..i can't and i doubt anyone here can."

So, if you can not define the concept, how can you be so sure what it does not mean?

sin 1. transgression of divine law 2. any act reguarded as such transgression, esp. a willful or deliberate violation of some religious or moral principle 3.any reprehensible action, behavior, etc.; serious fault or offense 4.to commit a sinful act 5. to offend against a principle, standard,etc. 6. to commit or perform sinfully 7. to bring, drive, etc. by sinning OE offense, misdeed; akin to

Syn--1. trespass, violation 2.wrong, wickedness 4.transgress, trespass

my "in short" fits with each and every one of these.

Sin is a barrier to a relationship. First a barrier from a relationship with God. Because of the first barrier, it can be a barrier of a relationship to another person (love your neighbor as yourself-- if you dont do this, which is a command of God, then you have created a barrier between (1st) God, because you disobeyed, (2nd) barrier between relationship of yourself and your neighbor.

Lastly, because of the first two, it is a barrier between the relationship you have with yourself...which we understand to be either guilt or indifference.

1 john 3:4-5 NIV

4. Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

5. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

1 john 3:4-5 ASV

4. Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

5. And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin.

1 john 3:4-5 Literal w/ Strong's Numbers

4. |3956| Every- |3588| one |4160| doing |3588| the |0266| sin, |2531| also |3588| the |0458| lawlessness |4160| does, |2532| and |3588| the |0266| sin |2076| is |3588| the |0458| lawlessness.

5. |2532| And |1492| you know |3754| that |1565| that |9999| {one} |5319| was revealed |2443| that |3588| the |0266| sins |0142| he could carry, |2532| and |0266| sin |1722| in |0846| him |3756| not |2076| is.

So if i'm wrong, show us all.

quote:and in him is no sin[/B]

I just want to interject here. One who is no longer living [as in human form], no longer is capable of sinning, now is he?

IMO this is the meaning of the chaff and the wheat...the human body is cast away...along with that, so is sin.



Why is it that apologetics are longer and more drawn out than scripture and are so narrow in scope that [I believe] even Jesus would reproach Christianity as it is today...just as he did the Jewish leaders for their own narrowness in thought and actions.

quote:you have created a barrier between (1st) God,

i'm hoping that was just a 'blond moment' on your part.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

i'm hoping that was just a 'blond moment' on your part.



nope, i said exactly what i meant.