Apparently, in Biblical times (and possibly in the modern era), Jews referred to the teachings of Judaism as 'true life,' and that those people that did not believe in the teachings of Judaism, called Goyim, were referred to as being 'dead,' not having the element of 'life' that comes with knowing the Torah and believing in Judaism.

This turns the concept of resurrection (particularly of Lazarus) into a unique metaphor for the initiation into the cult of Yahweh.

This is an important fact that most Bible-readers are not particularly aware of.

Another fact that apparently remains unmentioned: while Jesus in prison, the Bible says that a 'cohort' comes to save him. Our common tongue gives us the image of one man trying to save him, when, in fact, a 'cohort' is a division of a Roman legion. This means that roughly 600 men came to liberate Jesus from captivity.

Does anyone know of any texts, resources, or multimedia that can help a common reader perceive the religious and social context of Biblical terminology of this sort? This kind of knowledge seems... I dunno... important.

QUOTE Originally posted by Tyrant:

Apparently, in Biblical times (and possibly in the modern era), Jews referred to the teachings of Judaism as 'true life,' and that those people that did not believe in the teachings of Judaism, called Goyim, were referred to as being 'dead,' not having the element of 'life' that comes with knowing the Torah and believing in Judaism.

This turns the concept of resurrection (particularly of Lazarus) into a unique metaphor for the initiation into the cult of Yahweh.

if it is a metaphor, how does the concept of lazarus being in the grave for 3 days, fit in? And that Jesus wept? Or that the disiples wanted Jesus to hurry, while lazarus is sick?

Or the big one.. if Jesus raise lazarus from the dead (prior to His own resurection) metephorically, how could Jesus teach the "knowing the Torah and believing in Judaism", if He, Himself hadnt died and risen yet (metaphorically)?

Another fact that apparently remains unmentioned: while Jesus in prison, the Bible says that a 'cohort' comes to save him. Our common tongue gives us the image of one man trying to save him, when, in fact, a 'cohort' is a division of a Roman legion. This means that roughly 600 men came to liberate Jesus from captivity.

I'm not familiar with Jesus being in prison, unless you mean when He descended to Hell, after death, before rising from the dead and ascending to Heaven...

Please post the Book, Chapter, Verse to include which version translation you refer to.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Apparently, in Biblical times (and possibly in the modern era), Jews referred to the teachings of Judaism as 'true life,' and that those people that did not believe in the teachings of Judaism, called Goyim, were referred to as being 'dead,' not having the element of 'life' that comes with knowing the Torah and believing in Judaism.

This turns the concept of resurrection (particularly of Lazarus) into a unique metaphor for the initiation into the cult of Yahweh.

This is an important fact that most Bible-readers are not particularly aware of.

Another fact that apparently remains unmentioned: while Jesus in prison, the Bible says that a 'cohort' comes to save him. Our common tongue gives us the image of one man trying to save him, when, in fact, a 'cohort' is a division of a Roman legion. This means that roughly 600 men came to liberate Jesus from captivity.

Does anyone know of any texts, resources, or multimedia that can help a common reader perceive the religious and social context of Biblical terminology of this sort? This kind of knowledge seems... I dunno... important.

If you want hardcopy (and quite possibly hard-reading) see the Xian reading list thread.

As for on the Net... i dunno of any good resources that aren't either xian or evangelical atheist. You could try religious tolerance .com or whatever it is. Try Google.

if it is a metaphor, how does the concept of lazarus being in the grave for 3 days, fit in? And that Jesus wept? Or that the disiples wanted Jesus to hurry, while lazarus is sick?

I thought the idea was self-explanatory... Lazarus underwent an initiation ceremony to become known to the teachings - to become 'alive.' This would explain why, despite the disciples' encouragements, Jesus waits two days before going to Lazarus' tomb.

Or the big one.. if Jesus raise lazarus from the dead (prior to His own resurection) metephorically, how could Jesus teach the "knowing the Torah and believing in Judaism", if He, Himself hadnt died and risen yet (metaphorically)?

Falls under the same category of explanation as to why people started referring to him as Rabbi when he was a child; his uncovering these secrets surpassed the necessary initiations.

I'm not familiar with Jesus being in prison, unless you mean when He descended to Hell, after death, before rising from the dead and ascending to Heaven...

Please post the Book, Chapter, Verse to include which version translation you refer to.

My mistake... According to a Catholic Vulgate, they sent a cohort to capture him in Gethsemane, not in custody.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

if it is a metaphor, how does the concept of lazarus being in the grave for 3 days, fit in? And that Jesus wept? Or that the disiples wanted Jesus to hurry, while lazarus is sick?

I thought the idea was self-explanatory... Lazarus underwent an initiation ceremony to become known to the teachings - to become 'alive.' This would explain why, despite the disciples' encouragements, Jesus waits two days before going to Lazarus' tomb.

And wept?

quote:Or the big one.. if Jesus raise lazarus from the dead (prior to His own resurection) metephorically, how could Jesus teach the "knowing the Torah and believing in Judaism", if He, Himself hadnt died and risen yet (metaphorically)?

Falls under the same category of explanation as to why people started referring to him as Rabbi when he was a child; his uncovering these secrets surpassed the necessary initiations.

no, under your definition, you are 'dead,'if you do not have the element of 'life' that comes with knowing the Torah and believing in Judaism. So you are saying that Lazarus was taught "life" by Jesus, which was before Jesus' death on the cross and resurection. That would mean that Jesus knew enough to teach Lazarus, but not enough for Himself to have life.

quote:My mistake... According to a Catholic Vulgate, they sent a cohort to capture him in Gethsemane, not in custody.

Matthew uses the word 'ochlos'

Strong's Ref. # 3793

Romanized ochlos

Pronounced okh'los

from a derivative of GSN2192 (meaning a vehicle); a throng (as borne along); by implication, the rabble; by extension, a class of people; figuratively, a riot:

KJV--company, multitude, number (of people), people, press.

Mark uses the same word but also the word 'polus' to say that the crowd was 'large', but back in Matthew, the word 'Pontikos'

Pronounced pon-tik-os'

from GSN4195; a Pontican, i.e. native of Pontus:

KJV--born in Pontus.

and if you look at one of the meanings of 'ochlos' is "a class of people"... it makes me wonder if the combination of Matthew and Mark are saying, "a riotous, large crowd from Pontus"... im not sure, this is the first time i've noticed this, and i am not employed as a Bible scholar...

Strong's Ref. # 4183

Romanized polus

Pronounced pol-oos'

including the forms from the alternate pollos; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverbial, largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely:

KJV--abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft(-en [-times]), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare GSN4118, GSN4119.

Luke just uses "ochlos"

John uses "speira"

Strong's Ref. # 4686

Romanized speira

Pronounced spi'-rah

secondarily of Latin origin, but ultimately a derivative of GSN0138 in the sense of its cognate GSN1507; a coil (spira, "spire"), i.e. (figuratively) a mass of men (a Roman military cohort; also [by analogy] a squad of Levitical janitors):

KJV--band.

Ah ha!! now we have traced where you (from the Vulgate) got cohort from.... it would have been alot easier if you had just given Book/Chapter/Verse LOL

But i do thank you. I am going to check on what bible scholars think about my guess.. and i'm going to look up pontus alittle more thouroughly...thanks again