Alrighty well occasionally I will debate with my self about religion, seeing as though none of the theist's that I know are willing to have a two sided argument (I'm atheist by the way); and a question popped into my head.

What do theist's really have to lose by believing in God?

Some may argue that, logically, it makes no sense to commit effort into having faith towards something for which there is no solid evidence of existance.

But for some theist's it may not take too much effort to have faith in a God.

So, do they have anything to lose by believing?

The possibility of eternal life, and intellectual security. From a purely logical standpoint, you have more to lose from not being a theist.

Yeah, but you could say theists are betting a life somewhat less hedonistic (i don't mean this in a bad way).

Personally, i think it's worth living to a standard higher than happiness and "what feels good" regardless of religion.

But it would be a valid argument to say that if a theist is wrong, they missed out on a lot of pleasures life has to offer.

What pleasures do you mean exactly?

How about the pleasure of having 3 girls giving you oral while your tripping on acid?

I'm sure it's great, but i don't know many christians participating.

Pascel's wager is nothing new.

http://www.jhuger.com/pascal.mv



Besides though, a person can't choose what they believe, thats what they believe.

Thanks man,

Now I am going to Hell and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

quote:Originally posted by ShaolinKempo:

Alrighty well occasionally I will debate with my self about religion, seeing as though none of the theist's that I know are willing to have a two sided argument (I'm atheist by the way); and a question popped into my head.

What do theist's really have to lose by believing in God?

Some may argue that, logically, it makes no sense to commit effort into having faith towards something for which there is no solid evidence of existance.

But for some theist's it may not take too much effort to have faith in a God.

So, do they have anything to lose by believing?



Make a list of what the world has lost already...because of theism, albeit fanatical theism...

quote:Originally posted by ShaolinKempo:

What do theist's really have to lose by believing in God?



I don't think it's as easy as simply deciding to believe in god. Surely there must be a reason for you to believe/not believe.

^^^Some people believe simply because that is what they have been taught and they just accept it all. That's a reason.

^^^^

You bet it is.

But what I'm getting at is, you can't simply choose what to believe, it needs to be based on something, even if it is false, exagerated, imagined, ect.

You can't just say "you know what? I'm going to believe in christ today".

Pascal's Wager

Believing that for security reasons, you should believe in god (that's the gist of it).

While a good theory on paper, it has no practical application because your true intentions are not to really be religious and your faith is based off of reward.

I say it's for pussies, myself :-D

I agree Inside_Voices. I absolutely refused to believe in God out of fear because that seems self-serving.

But what I don't understand is how scripture can say that God is love, to fear God is the beginning of wisdom, yet love [supposedly] casts out fear. So then, why is so much based upon fear?

It makes no sense to me.

quote:Originally posted by outcast:

But what I don't understand is how scripture can say that God is love, to fear God is the beginning of wisdom, yet love [supposedly] casts out fear. So then, why is so much based upon fear?



I think it's because it's natural that we fear the things that we don't understand. The more we understand, the more we love.

You could say that life is a process of getting to know and love god. Until we understand god and life we are unsure and fearful of what we don't know.

There are no threats, but we don't yet believe that. That's why we are encouraged to have faith. To have faith to make the jumps into unknown territories of life.

[This message has been edited by ---Beany--- (edited 11-15-2004).]

But where does that fear come from?

dogmatic fear is a reflection of the insecurities of a false 'god', who uses spiritual intimidation to cypher worship away from the one true god, thereby creating not only the mechanism, but the material for his continued existence.

after all, if someone stops believing in this false god, then that means they believe that they were wrong, impure, and mislead. this is the false god's very definition of hell - so keep believing and you'll be fine.

the one true god does not concern himself with such silliness. believe in him or not, it's all good, baby baby.

Ah...God/Demi-God

quote:Originally posted by outcast:

But where does that fear come from?

I believe It comes from thinking.

One reason we think is because we don't believe that "everything will always be okay", so we think about many situations we are in or are yet to be in, as a way to try and prepare for what may happen.

From this thinking we get doubts. We have doubts about whether or not our ego's may be harmed, whether or not something may physically harm us or whether or not life ends at the deathbed. We don't really need to prepare for anything. Our instincts or subconscious knows how to act/react perfectly to every present moment we are in, but our "thinking" stops us from reacting instinctively.

If you had faith that life is eternal and the soul can never truly be harmed there would never be anything to fear.

To feel gods love, you only need to stop thinking and live life. God is life. Be with god by being with life, instead of clinging to your own thoughts.

Meditate.

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

I believe It comes from thinking.

To feel gods love, you only need to stop thinking and live life. God is life. Be with god by being with life, instead of clinging to your own thoughts.

Meditate.



I don't know. We have a mind, a mind that is capable of thought. Even what you write is merely a thought. So, I don't know if you're correct that it is from thinking.

Take for instance, small children. At a certain age they fear clowns. It is a common occurrance in children. Why? Where does that fear come from? It is the fear of the unknown or unfamiliar, I'm pretty certain.

Now, religion-wise...fear was instilled in me as a small child. To fear God, the wrath of Hell, etc. When I stopped believing all that, the fear vanished. It was nothing...a smokescreen. I stopped believing when i began to think about it all.

Nay...I don't agree that it is from thinking...

fear come from being of two natures. it is existence in a liminal stage of consciousness... negative thinking, which selects, and produces the 'thought ground' from which to shift polarity into a more positive state of mind than the prior positive state.

positivity is ethereal, but ether, being pure formless and flowing energy, continuously exists in all states of potentiality. the form of the human body does not flow without impedence in and of itself, because it is a form of mental resistance. therefore, we must of necessity, always exist to a greater degree in a state of doubt, as long as we define ourselves by our genes and physical forms without balancing for the spiritual positive.