I already posted this in someone elses thread but i didn't get replies on it. I just want to know what everybody thinks about it because i think its pretty good. I would like it if someone could help me make it more correct by brushing up on the scientific theories ans what not.

" If there is no god, no religion, then where exactly does your mind go aftrer you die? I don't know too much about how the brain works or just the subject of science, but isn't a thought an electrical transmission between to things in the brain, or somehting that has to do with electricity? IF so doesn't electricity have mass? And isn't it said that mass can never be created or destroyed?

If thats all true, which it might not be, then can it be possible that the mind still works after the death of a body, and the afterlife is nothing more that you mind just continuing to think? Or maybe if hell is just what the mind goes through if it feels guilty after death.

I think some of my definitions are mixed up but I think this this concept still makes you think."

If you guys did read it and don't agree and didn't reply cause it was stupid then just lock/delete the thread.

What I am looking for is a socratic discussion.

[This message has been edited by UN!F13D (edited 11-21-2004).]

Electricity isn't mass, it's energy. Energy can't be destroyed either but it changes form. The electrical energy upon death is probably converted to 100% potential energy. On what the brain does upon death however, it discontinues its functioning. No longer recieves or transmits signals.

Yes, the brain discontinues functioning because it is not an independent organ; it requires a constant flow of blood to carry the nutrients it requires to keep functioning. Any remaining electric potentials are quickly lost, and the brain's fragile neural structure rots.

The science fiction author Philip Hose Farmer in his Riverworld series had an interesting idea that the brain signals were being recorded throughout a person's life and eventually used to restore the persona into a new body on a different world.

My belief is that the brain is our soul, if you will. What makes us "us" is the brain, this has been documented many times by the scientific community. (see A Ghost in the Machine: The existence of the soul (http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/ghost.html))

Also, our personalities can be altered by drugs. This makes sense, emotions are chemical reactions in the brain, the use of SSRIs to treat depression demonstrates this.

So, when our brains die, we die. It's really as simple as that, in my opinion.

Of course, this is hardly an open and shut case, our understanding of the brain is just beginning. So it's possible all that I've said is completely wrong. Only time will tell.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

Of course, this is hardly an open and shut case, our understanding of the brain is just beginning. So it's possible all that I've said is completely wrong.



The brain isn't a complete mystery to scientist. For one thing we know exactly what the brain is composed of. We know what individual neurons do, and what small groupings of them do (some groupings have been demonstrated to work just like certain computer circuits - those are the easiest). We have some good theories as to how input from our senses forms thoughts. For example, how several light receptors in the eye can lead to the identification of geometric shapes. I know of a programming technique based on a neural 'circuit' used in the brain.

The thing we don't know very well is how the brain develops complex thoughts. There is the theory that a set of neurons that represent one idea can create connections with another set of neurons to form associations. I don't know how much evidence there is for this theory other than that Alzheimer patients whose neurons were stimulated to grow neural connections recovered some of their memories.

quote:Originally posted by Sarter:

The brain isn't a complete mystery to scientist. For one thing we know exactly what the brain is composed of. We know what individual neurons do, and what small groupings of them do (some groupings have been demonstrated to work just like certain computer circuits - those are the easiest). We have some good theories as to how input from our senses forms thoughts. For example, how several light receptors in the eye can lead to the identification of geometric shapes. I know of a programming technique based on a neural 'circuit' used in the brain.

The thing we don't know very well is how the brain develops complex thoughts. There is the theory that a set of neurons that represent one idea can create connections with another set of neurons to form associations. I don't know how much evidence there is for this theory other than that Alzheimer patients whose neurons were stimulated to grow neural connections recovered some of their memories.



Do you think it can be studied, researched, and revised to a good theory?

quote:Originally posted by UN!F13D:

" If there is no god, no religion, then where exactly does your mind go aftrer you die? I don't know too much about how the brain works or just the subject of science, but isn't a thought an electrical transmission between to things in the brain, or somehting that has to do with electricity?

Yes. quote:

IF so doesn't electricity have mass? And isn't it said that mass can never be created or destroyed?

Electricity and mass are both forms of energy [E = mc^2] [E = QU]. Mass can be "destroyed" or transformed into other forms of energy.

eg. e+ & e- --> g

And if matter was something that could never be destroyed, that wouldn't mean your bicycle would work forever. Someone could brake it. Mass would still be there, but the bike wouldn't.

quote:

If thats all true, which it might not be, then can it be possible that the mind still works after the death of a body, and the afterlife is nothing more that you mind just continuing to think?

I think it's possible.

quote:

Or maybe if hell is just what the mind goes through if it feels guilty after death.



Could be...

[B][QUOTE]

I think some of my definitions are mixed up but I think this this concept still makes you think."

It seems to me like your using similar afterlife arguments as medieval philophers(mind is one, individus). I personally believe(this is originally Kant(I guess Buddha said something similar too)) self isn't one entity, but consists of many pieces,and thus is non-eternal.



[This message has been edited by jurainus (edited 11-23-2004).]

What if we are but a single personality, or a tiny bit of consciousness (or a chop off the ole’ block), of a single entity or godlike presence which we will call "The One", maybe the only actual soul (for lack of a better word) out there. And the "White Light" is only the edge of incorporation back into "The One". We are "The One". Our brains are what gives us individuality and personality, perhaps animals, bugs, etc. also share in the pool of “The One’s” consciousness, and the only difference between us is in appearance, different brain shape, thought patterns, depth of thought etc . The universe and all else is a manifestation of our “One”, a wanting, desire to take physical form, we live, learn, enjoy etc and what is left of “The One’s” consciousness partakes in that need/want through us. Maybe being eternal isn’t all its cracked up to be and our One Self lives vicariously through us. Imagine being eternal and what there was before the universe, nothing?, or maybe just “The One’s” thoughts in eternal blackness as a blind person from birth might see yet with infinite thought capacity and depth?. Or maybe just an eternal blissful peaceful hum of existence, and then in a dream (or aspiration?) We thought up the universe, put parts of our consciousness into each living being, be it a bug or beast, anything with thought, and evolution eventually led to us, and I hardly think we are the pinnacle of evolution. We will eventually learn/evolve to tap into the mind and I think over time we could become the big headed alien guys with telepathic brains and telekinesis etc to travel the universe. For if there are a tiny few out there today can move a pencil on a table or bend a spoon with there mind, imagine what they could do in space where there is little to no gravity and no friction. Faster than light travel could be possible or even instantaneous teleportation. That is the future I think, but how to bring it about?....

I've posted this before but maybe usefull.

Peace

^^ Very good post, I must say

quote:Originally posted by jurainus:



Electricity and mass are both forms of energy [E = mc^2] [E = QU]. Mass can be "destroyed" or transformed into other forms of energy.

eg. e+ & e- --> g

And if matter was something that could never be destroyed, that wouldn't mean your bicycle would work forever. Someone could brake it. Mass would still be there, but the bike wouldn't



Then whats the rule that says ____ can never be created or destroyed? I thought it was mass or matter?

quote:Originally posted by UN!F13D:

Then whats the rule that says ____ can never be created or destroyed? I thought it was mass or matter?

Mass is the amount of matter something has.

quote:Originally posted by UN!F13D:



Do you think it can be studied, researched, and revised to a good theory?

Yes. But it would be much more difficult to actually reproduce the effects, because the brain wasn't built like a computer (instantaneously from pre-existing components), but rather grew over time from scratch, with the help of DNA instructions and a lifetime of input from the environment.

Unless we invent the equivalent of a photocopier for matter, the only way we have to make a brain artificially is to grow one through cloning. Since we can't control the environment that well, a clone of somebody would not have the same brain structure at all, and the personality would be changed similarly. Ignore those scifi movies where the clone always has the same memories and personality as the hero except is, for some reason, extremely evil.

Much easier than creating an artifical afterlife would be to just extend the lives we already have via genetic engineering. After all, we may have big gaps of knowledge regarding the brain, but we have the human DNA structure almost completely mapped out.

quote:Originally posted by UN!F13D:

Then whats the rule that says ____ can never be created or destroyed? I thought it was mass or matter?

Energy, according to current theories

[This message has been edited by jurainus (edited 11-24-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Sarter:

Mass is the amount of matter something has.

"A property of matter equal to the measure of an object's resistance to changes in either the speed or direction of its motion. The mass of an object is not dependent on gravity and therefore is different from but proportional to its weight."

Googlicious.