I think we have all heard of the satanic worshipers, the pagans. Well I decided to post what I have to say on the subject here. On the account of thier are so many God bbs here.

Pagans do not believe in satan

nore do they beleive in God. Itis

its own religion. Christianity is

the only religion that believs in

satan period. the satanic paths all

came from christianity. So if all

you God fearing people dont mind

Quit calling us santanic worshipers.

Thier is good or evil in paganism

thier is only magic. That also goes

for wicca, and druidism, We dont

call you bad for believing the way

you do. and just for the record Druidism was their before christianity...

Of course druidism was before christianity, so were many other religions. But I don't believe contemporary druidism has anything to do with the ancient one...

Fat chance Christians will stop calling pagans Satan worshipers. Some of them call anyone but non Catholic Christians and Jews Satan worshipers.

Technically pagans are "satan" worshipers. The definition of "Satan" is someone who opposes God. If you are christian, this means someone who opposes the christian God.

But many christians don't know enough about their own religion to realize this, so they condemn pagans of worshiping some sort of goat God that they call satan.

Any one that claims they are worshiping just like the ancient druids is a liar, but then, few christian groups worship like ancient christians, so its rather even. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Oh shut up you goddamn hellbound fluffbunny wiccan.

most of you have it all wrong...Paganism itself is not a religion. there are pagan religions. basically pagans are anyone who worships other than the christian god. so anyone who isnt a Jew, christian or muslim is a pagan. those religions all worship the same god, the only difference is when JC and mohammed come into play, well thats one of the differences....

so if you ask someones religion and they say they are a pagan, they are really a moron. this especially applies to those wierd older middle aged women who think they are witches, and dress really wierd...you know what im talking about...

so again, paganism has nothing to do with devil worship, though it can, i guess....it applies to hindus and chinese and probably half of the world....

^ Are you saying hinduism is a pagan religion or not? Well it doesn't matter...

I find fat teen lesbian goth chicks the worst kind of witches. But I don't know if middle-aged are worse, because I haven't seen any http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by jurainus:

^ Are you saying hinduism is a pagan religion or not? Well it doesn't matter...

I find fat teen lesbian goth chicks the worst kind of witches. But I don't know if middle-aged are worse, because I haven't seen any http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)



You don't see em because they tend to avoid the highly visible public places like malls and stuff...i used to work with one at a bennigans, and i saw one once in a 7 11...the younger goth chicks are just attention whores. but sometimes goth chicks are hot (www.suicidegirls.com). more often though, goth just makes ugly people interesting.....a little.

and yes hinduism is a pagan religion to christians. but its just a label christians use....

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

Technically pagans are "satan" worshipers. The definition of "Satan" is someone who opposes God. If you are christian, this means someone who opposes the christian God.

But many christians don't know enough about their own religion to realize this, so they condemn pagans of worshiping some sort of goat God that they call satan.

Any one that claims they are worshiping just like the ancient druids is a liar, but then, few christian groups worship like ancient christians, so its rather even. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Fuck you, fucking freak as a pagan i think your talking out your ass Satan is a concept that Christians made up based on the pagan god Hern or Pan so that pagans would covert to christianity thinking their own religion was evil thankfully pagan just gave them the finger and ignored them

I think you completely missed his/her point.

quote:Originally posted by heehee:

Fuck you, fucking freak as a pagan i think your talking out your ass Satan is a concept that Christians made up based on the pagan god Hern or Pan so that pagans would covert to christianity thinking their own religion was evil thankfully pagan just gave them the finger and ignored them

HAHAHAHA... typical hellbound fluffbunny wiccan bullshit.

paganism is indeed a religion thier is just alot of paths to be followed in the religion. as for the reigion being right or wrong nobody will ever know. i do thank those who have enough sence to post replies worth reading.

those of you who say pagans are satanic worshipers, you obviously dont know your ass from a hole in the ground and have not studied up on paganism enough to give a half ass decent debate from a christian or non- religios percpective.

Paganism and Satanism are two different things.

quote:Originally posted by Fire7:

paganism is indeed a religion thier is just alot of paths to be followed in the religion. as for the reigion being right or wrong nobody will ever know. i do thank those who have enough sence to post replies worth reading.

those of you who say pagans are satanic worshipers, you obviously dont know your ass from a hole in the ground and have not studied up on paganism enough to give a half ass decent debate from a christian or non- religios percpective.

You're obviously a 14 year old idiot who thinks it k3wl to be a "rebel" against the evil, evil christians by deciding you're wiccan, and then going out of your way to tell everyone, and make sure they aren't persecuting you.

And as for no one knowing whats right, you'll know you were wrong when you're in hell you goddamned fluffbunny wiccan.

Oh, as "study" of paganism - reading bullshit by Scott Cunningham doesn't count. Why don't you read stuff by Gerald Gardner, or that little book - Aradia, Gospel of Witches, assuming you're wiccan.

And if your just a general bisexual "omg im a pagan, im ancient religio" - read the illiad and the oddesey, and other historical sources, rather then bullshit from the new age section of your local bookstore.

Oh... I'm not ignorant, I know ALL about neo paganism, I was one.

And the whole hellbound thing, I was just giving you the persecution you desire, since thats obviously why you came here, to be persecuted. You know you want it.

And there aren't "many paths".

You can't have both salvation and reincarnation existing at the same time, unless of course what happens in the afterlife is what you believe, in which case, your beliefs are really crap. The muslims are really kicking your ass in that regard.

As for pagans being satanic, define satanic, because in the eyes of many evangelical, particularly charismatic christians, anything that isn't godly is.

I'm an athiest by the way, idiot, and if you knew your face from your asshole, eg - if you actually read around a bit on this forum, you would know that.

quote:Gerald Gardner

ok so its been 20 years since i was active in the old religion but even back then Gardner was considered a joke.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 11-29-2004).]

personally it dont really matter

i was raised a christian, but have taken up practice in herbal arts

teas and whatnot

im not pagan nore christian nore hinduism or druid or anything. i dont suppose.

thier are things in the bible i agree, with and things about the zodiac i beleive in, and things about paganism i beleive in.

what are you a hipocritical christian???

my bad,,, dumb question you make it seem obvious.



[This message has been edited by Fire7 (edited 11-29-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

ok so its been 20 years since i was active in the old religion but even back then Gardner was considered a joke.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 11-29-2004).]

That's true jack. Alot of people did look down on the Gardner version of withcraft or Wicca if you prefer. There are alot of people today the pratice wicca that has nothing to do with his verison of it.

Just like people who say they'er hardcore christians. If the were hardcore then they would be following the bible verbatim, which is clear that they are not.

Another little bit of info about the christians is that all of the old gods worshiped before they took over were turned into demons to scare people into becoming christians. which was just another cult at that time.



[This message has been edited by Nemisis (edited 11-29-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

ok so its been 20 years since i was active in the old religion but even back then Gardner was considered a joke.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 11-29-2004).]

I'm refering to wicca here, so if by "old religion" you mean a real neo-pagan reconstructionalist religion such as Astaru, then sorry...

But how the hell could you think the guy that pretty much started wicca is a joke?

Those who are true christians dont always follow the bible. The Bible was writen by man. Not God himself. Further more it was alot of the books in the bible were writen by jews, who say that the jews are gods chosen people.

The person who invented wicca was a pagan.

and was considered a joke by the elders.

a serious joke but a joke.

The christian definition of pagan=devil worshiper. Put the pagans (@least the odanists) had their own version of a devil, Loki. He wasn't the goat thing though... btw, i'm christian but I'm not into the denomination thing. Luther had the right idea.

Read john 8:44-48 (KJV) or so and it tells about how the jews=demons or something.

I also was raised a christian. I learned at an early age that christians are nothing more than mouth. They consurn thierselfs more with bussiness of the church,and they worry about other religions too much.

Pagans and the Wiccans, are kinda getting tired of being called witchs, and their really tired of seeing thierselfs on tv with big noses and pointy hats. and a broom stick.

Since when don't pagans or satanists despise Christians, and forcefully oppose them ?

I think you need to do some more homework on that subject.

As Christians, we believe that there are only two paths: with God, and without God.

If you are not with God, then you are obviously without Him (profound, huh ?), and therefor condemned to an eternity of punishment in Hell.

We're ALL sinners, regardless of whether or not we are Christians.

The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is that God does not "see" a Christians sin any more, since Christ atoned for them, and can therefor offer us redemption.

quote:Originally posted by Fire7:

I also was raised a christian. I learned at an early age that christians are nothing more than mouth. They consurn thierselfs more with bussiness of the church,and they worry about other religions too much.

Pagans and the Wiccans, are kinda getting tired of being called witchs, and their really tired of seeing thierselfs on tv with big noses and pointy hats. and a broom stick.



You're an idiot. Wiccans refer to themselves as witches. The fact that it's synonomous with the more traditional image of a witch is their own fault, as they chose the name.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Since when don't pagans or satanists despise Christians, and forcefully oppose them ?



Depends on what you defenition of Pagan and Satanist. If you are talking about neo-pagans alot of them do forcefully oppose Christianity. But if Pagan means anyone who is not Christian or Jewish your statment does not hold up.

I find it hard to belive that God would condem people to Hell for living too far from Europe. So far Christians have not come up with a satifactory answer to that question. The Mormons are some of the only ones who think God cared about the rest of the world enough to send Jesus on a world tour, they are despised and forcefully opposed by many mainstream Christians.

Almost kinda right. Evidence does show that the modern idea of satan comes from other religions and missreadings of the bible. But the word itself means advasarry or opposer etc. Often against god. So yes, Pagans are "satan worshipers" in the sense that they worship something that goes against the tyranical opression of the fundementalist christian God, but few of them actually worship a being with horns and red face.

Learn your words, and think before you speak, dumbass. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)



quote:Originally posted by heehee:

Fuck you, fucking freak as a pagan i think your talking out your ass Satan is a concept that Christians made up based on the pagan god Hern or Pan so that pagans would covert to christianity thinking their own religion was evil thankfully pagan just gave them the finger and ignored them

quote:But the word itself means advasarry or opposer etc. Often against god.

its a shame when pagans have a better understanding of the bible than christians but somehow twas ever thus.

Me being an idiot may be true. I am not the smartest book on the shelf... I do know that Wiccans reffur to themselfs as witches,but the word witch has been out their for alot longer time than wicca. facts show that wicca was not a founded religion until the mid 1900.

Thats right, the word "Witch" was around for a lot longer than wicca, so its wicca's fault that they're compared to the stereotype ugly pure evil bitches with brooms. If they didnt want that they wouldnt have waited til after the witch trials or the wizard of oz or whatever the fuck makes witches look bad to pick that name for themselves.

Stop making pagans look bad by accusing Christians of hating us. I happen to know a lot of christians who have no problem with my Asatru faith, so if anyone here is stereotyping people based on religion its YOU, you freakin nazi.

quote:Originally posted by Opium Wolf:

Stop making pagans look bad by accusing Christians of hating us. I happen to know a lot of christians who have no problem with my Asatru faith, so if anyone here is stereotyping people based on religion its YOU, you freakin nazi.

He is admitting his own (real or imagined) limitations, which is more than can be said of you.

quote:Originally posted by heehee:

Fuck you, fucking freak as a pagan i think your talking out your ass Satan is a concept that Christians made up based on the pagan god Hern or Pan

I don't think so.

Although in popular folklore the devil if often depicted with horns, goat feet and a tail which are Pan's attributes I think but also refer to Greek satyrs, the idea of Satan has not been made up by Christians. The ancient Persians i.e. knew an "Angra Maynu" or Ahriman which was their Sun God's adversary.

In the bible it does indeed say that satan was an angel. Correct me if im wrong, but it says he was the most beautiful of all angels.

I know alot of people that would say you'd go blind at the site of him becouse he is so beautiful.

Pagan, Wiccan, Druid, Mistic Lore,

people set and talk about how evil they are, even when they don't really know. Chistians mostly but i guess thier might be a few other religions out there though.

I think it should be stoped.

uncus I do believe like a Nazi. I also believe that if you dont believe racism like me, then your opinion does not matter.

Christians have coused most the trouble in the world. Christians need to keep thier fucking nose out of others bussiness and stop running their fucking mouths

quote:In the bible it does indeed say that satan was an angel. Correct me if im wrong, but it says he was the most beautiful of all angels.

you are wrong.

Where does it say that?

Almost right, there were angels that were satan, or to put it another way, opposers of God. They were often elected by God to test people or provide a point, similar to a prosecutor.

Going back on topic.

Unfortunatly many christians seem to not know much about their past. The pentacle is called a sign of devil worship by many, but was used by christians as a symbol for the suffering of Jesus. The horned creature we know as satan who is blamed for practically everything, didn't exist in the time of Jesus (the belief that there were demons did however, but with better medical knowledge their real identity has been exposed).



quote:Originally posted by Fire7:

In the bible it does indeed say that satan was an angel. Correct me if im wrong, but it says he was the most beautiful of all angels.

I know alot of people that would say you'd go blind at the site of him becouse he is so beautiful.

Pagan, Wiccan, Druid, Mistic Lore,

people set and talk about how evil they are, even when they don't really know. Chistians mostly but i guess thier might be a few other religions out there though.

I think it should be stoped.

uncus I do believe like a Nazi. I also believe that if you dont believe racism like me, then your opinion does not matter.

Christians have coused most the trouble in the world. Christians need to keep thier fucking nose out of others bussiness and stop running their fucking mouths

Only religion that worships the "Devil" or "Satan" is devil worship, and that religion is more hardly known about in the present day. Even Lavey's Satanism doesn't worship Satan.



quote:

Most Satanists do not accept Satan as an anthropomorphic being with cloven hooves, a barbed tail and horns. He merely represents a force in nature - the powers of darkness which have been named just that becaue no religion has taken these forces OUT of the darkness. Nor has science been able to apply technical terminology to these forces. It is an untapped resivoir that few can make use of because they lack the ability to use a tool without having to first break down and label all the parts which make it run. It is this incessant need to analyze which prohibits most people from taking advantage of this many faceted key to the unknown - which the satanist chooses to call "Satan".

quote:Originally posted by Opium Wolf:

Thats right, the word "Witch" was around for a lot longer than wicca, so its wicca's fault that they're compared to the stereotype ugly pure evil bitches with brooms. If they didnt want that they wouldnt have waited til after the witch trials or the wizard of oz or whatever the fuck makes witches look bad to pick that name for themselves.

Stop making pagans look bad by accusing Christians of hating us. I happen to know a lot of christians who have no problem with my Asatru faith, so if anyone here is stereotyping people based on religion its YOU, you freakin nazi.



Wait, wasn't Hitler a Pagan?

I know he was trying to institute a new racial religion for the 3rd Reich, but could it be considered Pagan?

quote:Originally posted by gudis:



I know he was trying to institute a new racial religion for the 3rd Reich, but could it be considered Pagan?

quote:

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pagan



pa·gan ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pgn)

n.

One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.

One who has no religion.

A non-Christian.

A hedonist.

A Neo-Pagan.

adj.

Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.

Professing no religion; heathen.

Neo-Pagan.





By defination, just about every religion is Pagan O.o

i think nazism is most easily understood as a religion onto itself, with no clear official belief system.

but there were strong elements of the supernatural in the form of altered christianity, occultism, and even bows to islam. some people think hitler may have even been a satanist...

i bet he swung between two extremes... on the one hand, he surely understood the power of religious/cultural symbols as a tool to control and sway the public; on the other, he probably struggled with the idea that he was god or the second coming or some shit.

Hitler spoke alot about how christianity should be part of the Nazi Movement.



I don't Know. How many people are thier posting here that descend from Germany??

I dont see how he's admitting limitations by accusing an entire religion of intolerance for pagans.

As for the nazi comment, you're taking it in a literal 'follower of hitler' sense. what was meant by that is that he is expressing hostility toward christians. He's stereotyping and implying that all christians are pagan-hating feinds. Nazi, in the case, would mean someone basing prejudices on an entire race or religion solely on a select part of the population... its the same idea as being a racist, or forming "cliques" at school. You're discriminating against christians based on the fact that there are several who oppose and hate pagans, rather than stating your thesis more completely and in better detail... you freakin nazi...

quote:Originally posted by gudis:



Wait, wasn't Hitler a Pagan?

I know he was trying to institute a new racial religion for the 3rd Reich, but could it be considered Pagan?

He was raised Catholic and some people concider that pagan, I have heard he did some strange neo-pagan stuff too.

pagan

\Pa"gan\ (p[=a]"gan), n. [L. paganus a countryman, peasant, villager, a pagan, fr. paganus of or pertaining to the country, rustic, also, pagan, fr. pagus a district, canton, the country, perh. orig., a district with fixed boundaries: cf. pangere to fasten. Cf. Painim, Peasant, and Pact, also Heathen.]

Pagan was the name given to idolaters in the early Christian church, because the villagers, being most remote from the centers of instruction, remained for a long time unconverted.

I have to say I respect all of your perspectives, but it is indeed the Christians that give Pagans a bad name.

Me being a Nazi has nothing to do with Paganism or Christianity. If you have something to say about me being a Nazi Youth.

you can email me. I can't garrantee you will like the responsed though.

If it werent for Christians the world would be a much safer and more natural place to live.

I agree that the world would be a much safer and more natural place if not for christianity being a major part of western government and culture, however if it didnt exist there would still be religious problems. Islam or Judaism would be the major religion in the west, and thus would have followed the same path as Christianity... Mankind as a hole has the need to assimilate everyone to a specific model. If there were no xianic religions and it was only the pagan ones, those religions would have battled and called eachother evil in some way. So you blaming Christianity for pagans' problems is entirely wrong and ignorant. You're being a nazi in the sense that you are expressing hatred toward a religious group, the same as Hitler did, without reasonable purpose. I never said "Go burn a jew, you freakin neo nazi assfuck" or anything, I was referring to your method and thesis. You are, if not a nazi, at the very least incredibly closed minded and fairly ignorant, as are most "pagans". Paganism is corrupted by anti-christians and people like that. Rather than blaming christianity for all the problems in paganism, take an active roll to prove to the asshole christians that pagans aren't satanic by showing them what we are like, or educating them. STOP making us look like anti-christs and shit, because THAT is part of why they call us "satanic". Eventually, if every pagan does something pro-active, rather than just bitching about the "stupid christians" we'll be entirely accepted, regardless of our religion. THAT is why I say you are a nazi, you stupid freakin nazi.

Actually, one form of Neo-paganism, Asatru, is sometimes linked with white supremicists.

I actually like the idea personally, throwing off the Brain rotting bullshit that our Juden "masters" have tricked us into believing, and rediscovering the gods of our forfathers, but thats just me.

^^^

You can take that as a joke, as a serious comment, something in between, or as a lump of sauerkraut.

:P

[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 12-08-2004).]

I actually think that Lavey's idea of satanism is the way that most people live their lives. Even christians follow the ideas set forth in the satanic bible. It's just giving in to your natural instincts.

If you are hungry, eat. If you are very hungry and the food is good, then eat alot. Christianity says that something as simple as that is a sin. It's just what comes natural. Then if the person that eats too much decides to cut back on the sin of gluttony and makes the terrible mistake of trying to look better and be healthier it's pride, which is another sin.

It seems that christianity has too many ideas that don't jive with what man wants to naturally do. With people being harder to brainwash, more are exploring religions outside of christianity and making their own decisions. That's good and bad for the other religions. It gets more members, but it also gets more believers that don't bother to research and really understand what they are talking about. That large mass of people happens to be the most vocal and end up making druids, pagans and wiccans look like morons.

Whereas most christians are raised that way and end up learning about christianity for 20 years or so. Then that person gets into a religious argument with a "wiccan" that hasn't been learning about it for more than a few months. Guess who ends up looking bad most of the time.

well.

why do all you non-christians feel the need to align yourselves with some sort of label... there is no reason for pagans(and i say that lightly) to get all huffy about being persecuted... the whole persecution thing is an illusion, brought on by the persecutors' own weaknesses and fears of possibly being wrong themselves, and persecuted in turn... and all you christians? the bible tells you that YOU are the ones to be persecuted... to be christian is to suffer at the hands of men and to be at the mercy of the lord...

i myself know very very few true christians or pagans... most people i run into don't have any idea what they believe, or don't have a strong knowledge of what they think they believe...

either way, why does it matter? in the end(if there is one) maybe we'll find out that the christians were right, or maybe, in another life, we will all have this stupid conversation again, and agian, and again...

or, maybe, at some point, we will all open up to the possibility that anything is possible and/or that everything stated in this thread, and all others, is true... think about that for a second... EVERYTHING IS TRUE, EVERYTHING IS REAL. god commited suicide so we could all be saved... there is nothing rational in this life... good luck