Im wondering this and want more evidence. Im atheist and parents are mixed religions, couldn't care less. Just from reading briefly about christianity I see that it basically was the grounds for saying that every other religion and its people were going to hell and were evil, especially judaism and its people. I know about the pagan romans but they didn't try to spread anything wideley as much as the christians did. They intigated the holy wars, still today try to brainwash people, run countries with its leaders running by Christian moral, and all in all, created more religous crazies and radicals. What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Testament (edited 11-27-2004).]

That aspect of Christianity has always been the biggest turn-off for me. A religion which became dominant based on intolerance, no matter what it teaches, needs a lot of redemption before it gets rid of the taint.

The sad part about it is, its the most mainstream religion in the world and people don't even mention its faults or what it's done, as if the people and the religion are innocent and perfect. All the hate instead goes to everyone else in racist or anti-semetic ways I suppose.

Christianity was by far not the first religion to start that trend. The closest "big" religion, I can think of, that was doing that before Christianity was Islam. So, well, okay, there it is.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Christianity was by far not the first religion to start that trend. The closest "big" religion, I can think of, that was doing that before Christianity was Islam. So, well, okay, there it is.

Cheers,

Lost

I know I'm asking for it here, but...wasn't Islam founded after Christianity?

Anyway, practically every religion in the history of religion has a measure of intolerance or exclusivity. It kind of comes with the title; how are you going to expect people to follow a religion that says "every religion is good! No penalty for choosing another one!" It's a practical fact.

Christianity didsn't develop it's intolerance for a while. Anyways all religion are going to teach some level of intolerance towards other people. Also remember some people will twist aspects of religion in order to meet personal goals. So don't assume that the people represent the religion.

quote:Originally posted by Testament:

Just from reading briefly about christianity I see that it basically was the grounds for saying that every other religion and its people were going to hell and were evil, especially judaism and its people. I know about the pagan romans but they didn't try to spread anything wideley as much as the christians did. They intigated the holy wars, still today try to brainwash people, run countries with its leaders running by Christian moral

Do you really think that many political leaders or statesmen are living according to "Christian morals" ?

And where or how did you see it stated that other religions and people were evil ? Could you expound a little ?

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

I know I'm asking for it here, but...wasn't Islam founded after Christianity?

Don't be surprised. After all, LostCause DID say she was weird as a child, didn't she ?

This question is stupid.

Nearly every religion is mutually exclusive from every other religion.

Some guy bitched at me for saying this a while ago but i'm going to say it again.

If you follow a religion that believes in reincarnation and i follow a religion that believes in enternal life in heaven, We Cannot Both Be Correct.

If you believe that Jesus' death brings the gift of redemption and salvation and i believe that praying to sacred stones is the key to forgiveness, We Cannot both be Correct.

People like to pick on Christianity because it's the prevailing religion of the west. If you truely believe in your religion, how can you possibly be all-inclusive?

theBishop

Zoroastrianism. GIYF.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

If you follow a religion that believes in reincarnation and i follow a religion that believes in enternal life in heaven, We Cannot Both Be Correct.

If you believe that Jesus' death brings the gift of redemption and salvation and i believe that praying to sacred stones is the key to forgiveness, We Cannot both be Correct.

If you truely believe in your religion, how can you possibly be all-inclusive?

theBishop

It is possible, Buddhism is a good example. You're getting hung up on the idea of "correctness". If you take each idea literally, then you're right, both of them cannot be correct. But if you view them as the metaphors that they really are, then it is not that difficult.

This is all just my opinion, but I think religion was never meant to be taken literally. Religion is just one big metaphor to describe the Unknown as best we can.

quote: If you truely believe in your religion, how can you possibly be all-inclusive?

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

I know I'm asking for it here, but...wasn't Islam founded after Christianity?



Yah your right. But Judaism was doing it before Christianity and probably there were pagan religions thinking it before Judasim.

Hmm... sorta, although I got the impression from the old testament that it wasn't so much that the god of the Jews was the only one, just that he was the biggest kid on the block.

That isn't to say it doesn't also say he is the only one though.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

This question is stupid.

Nearly every religion is mutually exclusive from every other religion.

Some guy bitched at me for saying this a while ago but i'm going to say it again.

If you follow a religion that believes in reincarnation and i follow a religion that believes in enternal life in heaven, We Cannot Both Be Correct.

If you believe that Jesus' death brings the gift of redemption and salvation and i believe that praying to sacred stones is the key to forgiveness, We Cannot both be Correct.

People like to pick on Christianity because it's the prevailing religion of the west. If you truely believe in your religion, how can you possibly be all-inclusive?

theBishop

I agree - but that is not what the OP asked.

I do not know for sure if Christianity was the first but they certainly do use scare tactics that are aggressive toward others. I would be surprised if it were the first because differences have been part of the source of conflict for things even less revered than religion.

As far as the what do I think bit tacked onto the end of the OP - I agree with that too. I do not believe I needed God/Bible to tell me that killing is bad. Considering all the trouble religion has caused, I believe we would all be better without it.

Bullshit. Religion did not cause the problems. People in power use religion to get the subordinates to fight for their causes.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Christianity was by far not the first religion to start that trend. The closest "big" religion, I can think of, that was doing that before Christianity was Islam. So, well, okay, there it is.

Cheers,

Lost



Um, Islam wasn't founded until about 700 A.D., after Christianity, and it was based off of the two preceding Abrahamic religions. The main things about Islam is that they believe that Christ was only one of the five prophets, and Mohammed was the last one, and that there will be no more prophets. I'm not quite sure how Islam and Christianity go with the whole Anti-Christ thing, for the Anti-Christ is supposed to be a false prophet who gains influence through bringing people into his flock under the guise of Christianity. If there were to be no more prophets, then that might be different. Well, I dunno. But anyway, Islam came after, most people know that.

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

I know I'm asking for it here, but...wasn't Islam founded after Christianity?

Anyway, practically every religion in the history of religion has a measure of intolerance or exclusivity. It kind of comes with the title; how are you going to expect people to follow a religion that says "every religion is good! No penalty for choosing another one!" It's a practical fact.



Well, in terms of Buddhism, you can always try again and again and again. So basically every religion is good then under that pretext if it actually helps you to become a better person and step up to the next level. Basically that means that everyone goes at their own speed and it doesn't really matter how fast you go.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

People like to pick on Christianity because it's the prevailing religion of the west.

I believe you really got a point here.

Those always bashing Christianity as is almost fashion today and promoting whatever they believe in, are not less intolerant than they claim Christians are. I believe they are simply smarter in not showing it.

[/B][/QUOTE]

From all the reading i've done it seems that Monotheism was the real problem. With Moses and the law "Thou shalt not have any other gods besides me" it was a big shift for the Israelites. they had to choose between monotheism or their polytheistic/henotheistic beliefs. the problem is if you have just one God, then you believe that all the others don't exist, or are therefore wrong.

Judaism was one of the first, if not the first to have monotheism on a large scale. Certainly the babylonians, assyrians, hittites, egyptians, and sumarians had many gods. The Jews really developed monotheism, and then the Jewish christians took it a step further. Islam was an attempt to go back to the original Judiasm, the faith of Abraham so the Arab people could have their own religion (Karen Armstron's "A short history of Islam").

Ultimately though, all major religions have periods of oppression and abuse of power. It's too tempting for the religious leaders not to.

So there's your answer.

^^^

Karen Armstrong's A History of God is also an good book, if you haven't read it already.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

Bullshit. Religion did not cause the problems. People in power use religion to get the subordinates to fight for their causes.

Bullshit - the church was the power. It was done in the name of religion. Just like in the name of Allah in the Middle East right now.

And my point still holds. When Christ says

Mat 5:39

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And

Rom 12:19

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Then whomever tries to start a war in the name of christianity is gonna have to do some serious twisting to justify it. I believe the same point could be made for Islam, but i'm hardly a Koran expert.

theBishop

Disregarding mono/polytheism... One tribe will always look at another's god(s) as their devil(s). This is just human nature.

As to what's correct: Who can say? If there is one god, Why would it reveal itself to only one culture? Isn't that rather limited for an all-powerful being, such as it supposedly is?

Conversely, if there are really many gods, and there is some sort of "competition" between them, do we really want to affiliate ourselves with a struggle we know nothing about? Again, no one has been able to show either way.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

And my point still holds. When Christ says

Mat 5:39

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And

Rom 12:19

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Then whomever tries to start a war in the name of christianity is gonna have to do some serious twisting to justify it. I believe the same point could be made for Islam, but i'm hardly a Koran expert.

theBishop

BS

Does not matter what Jesus says, the reality is what matters.

The Arabs keep screaming the Koran says...all the while lopping off heads in the name of Islam

The point is getting hazy. Some one (you?) blamed the problems of the world on religion. I'm saying jackass humans are the problem.

If religion says one thing and people do the opposite "in the name of" the religion, that is not the fault of the religion, that is the fault of jackass humans.

How insane would it be if i said "killing people is horrible" and someone killed someone and i was blamed for causing it? That's the point you're arguing.

theBishop

I've read Karen Armstrong's History of God too, and I agree it's a very good read.

Machiavelli says there's no reason to think of things in terms of the ideal situation, because the difference between how humans should be and how they are is always huge. I think he was right.....

Again, back on topic, Christianity was most certainly NOT the first to call every other belief evil. Again, polytheism basically promoted openness, where at least they could accept the other gods into their belief systems, even though they wouldn't pray to them, they still believed in them. Monotheism gave rise to a disdain for other gods, and thus other beliefs. there we have it.

Now, no one is perfect, and people do stupid things in the name of religion, but most likely they'd just use something else as an excuse if they couldn't use religion. It's a moot point.

quote:most likely they'd just use something else as an excuse if they couldn't use religion. It's a moot point.

exactly.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

The point is getting hazy. Some one (you?) blamed the problems of the world on religion. I'm saying jackass humans are the problem.

If religion says one thing and people do the opposite "in the name of" the religion, that is not the fault of the religion, that is the fault of jackass humans.

How insane would it be if i said "killing people is horrible" and someone killed someone and i was blamed for causing it? That's the point you're arguing.

theBishop

No - AGAIN! That is not the point. I am beginning to believe you are just attempting to build a strawman here.

To continue with the analogy you attempted:

It would be like if I said "killing people is horrible" and then killed somebody because my God is right and the person I killed was not worthy of my God or rejected my God.

Also, lets not forget that religion is a man made thing.

Is there any record of the Jews or Buddhists abusing members of another religion or attempting to convert?

quote:Originally posted by Fanglekai:

Again, polytheism basically promoted openness, where at least they could accept the other gods into their belief systems, even though they wouldn't pray to them, they still believed in them.

I am not too sure, but I don't believe that. I must admit I don't know it, but I think polytheists could be expected to accept only their own gods, not those of other systems. Why would they ? I don't think they were THAT open-minded.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

If you follow a religion that believes in reincarnation and i follow a religion that believes in enternal life in heaven, We Cannot Both Be Correct.

Theoretically speaking - I don't say this is reality - you could BOTH have a part of the answer. Neither of you is necessarily 100% right.

"Go ye into Canaan and kill all who are there."

It's dualism, look it up.