See title. If so is this a form of sin? I mean it seems an ideal place to wind up when you die, even more so when this "God" will forgive you if you accept jesus and all that bible malarky into your life before you die.

I realise that i seem like a "noob" or whatever, but i am fairly out of the loop on this whole subject.

i only seek a detailed answer not an arguement.

I don't know, but Meister Eckhart thinks it is. I don't really understand his opinion, but I have great respect for him. His texts have helped me in life :/

[This message has been edited by jurainus (edited 12-02-2004).]

I think it is natural to want to go to heaven, but not for the "human" reasons you are thinking of. (correct me if I am making an assumption that is in err)

To desire to be with your Creator is more right than you could know...

As a Christian, we strive to be as close to God here on earth by the only means available to us: spiritually.

Why then would we not seek to be "close" to Him physically (metaphysically ?) in Heaven, upon physical death ?

I don't find that to me materialistic.

I would call that love.

malarky, I love that word.

I can see how maybe if the only reason you want to go to heaven is to be in a paradise, then yeah you could maybe say that although I don't think it would be. It wouldn't be unmaterialistic or selfish to want to go to hell..but i think we should all strive for better motivations, like wanting to be with our creator and savior and wanting to do His will

You ask us of death, yet you know not how to live.

Materialism isn't as bad as everybody makes it out to be. It's a way of life. See: Ayn Rand.

I'm damn tired of this stupid heaven idea. Who cares?

Obviously, we do.

quote:Originally posted by Ezratal:

You ask us of death, yet you know not how to live.

And you do i suppose? sorry, i didn't know there was a set way to live your life. Take that shit somewhere else.

No, I didn't say I did, and I would appreciate it if you would squelch your rude comments in the future. What I said is a point of view expressed by many gnostics when asked about death... Basically a quote. There's a quote in the Gospel of Thomas that reads something like: Do not think about changing clothes until you wake or sleep. It's the same concept. While living you should focus on how you live not what your death will be. I'm sorry you interpretted it as myself making a rude comment (Like you did).

quote:Originally posted by Ezratal:

No, I didn't say I did, and I would appreciate it if you would squelch your rude comments in the future. What I said is a point of view expressed by many gnostics when asked about death... Basically a quote. There's a quote in the Gospel of Thomas that reads something like: Do not think about changing clothes until you wake or sleep. It's the same concept. While living you should focus on how you live not what your death will be. I'm sorry you interpretted it as myself making a rude comment (Like you did).

Fair enough friend, sorry i did interpret it as a rude comment. Now as far as what you've said yes that is a very good point. But i wasn't discussing death, i just wanted peoples opinions on whether wanting to go to heaven is a form of materialism.

I wouldn't think it materialistic at all because it's not an item of desire and if you're a believer in heaven and hell it's simply picking the better of two outcomes. To say that it would be materialistic to choose heaven over hell would be the equivalent of saying choosing to not burn your face is vain.

First, tell me this: What is this Heaven you speak of? The Heaven portrayed in the Bible? The Koran? I don't think that anybody has the same thing in mind when thinking of Heaven? Is it materialistic to want to go to Heaven? Well, that is subjective. Do you believe that Heaven exists in a material realm? If not, then it can not, by definition, be materialistic to wish to go there. Heaven, for me, is an eternity beside the ones that I love. Nothing less, nothing more. The rest is just details. That said, I can't say that I believe in a Heaven, nor a Hell. Am I open to the possibility? Yes. I am. Matierialism is for this physical world alone. You won't take anything with you after death. The money you make, the things you buy .. they stay here, regardless of where you go.

quote:Originally posted by Toothlessjoe:

See title. If so is this a form of sin? I mean it seems an ideal place to wind up when you die, even more so when this "God" will forgive you if you accept jesus and all that bible malarky into your life before you die.

I realise that i seem like a "noob" or whatever, but i am fairly out of the loop on this whole subject.

i only seek a detailed answer not an arguement.

what a strange aescetism you practice... to deny yourself even the traditional goal of spiritual advancement. good question, don't be afraid to expound on it, i'm curious as to where you're going.