I mean seriously, you aren't hurting anyone, you aren't hurting yourself (some doctors say its a good thing to do!) and you can still be totally and utterly belive in God if you do, so why is it a sin?

But you're killing innocent sperm. Thats murder and you've violated the 1st commandment.

because if you masturbate, you feel good in a natural way , which is bad,...wait... oh yeah and its because people insist on being uptight

quote:Originally posted by Hentai:

But you're killing innocent sperm. Thats murder and you've violated the 1st commandment.

Thats bullshit. Im masturbating to your post and killing lots of sperm!

Because it's lust, is what most Christians will tell you. You're thinking about sex/sexual stuff outside of marriage, which is just as bad in God's eyes.

I guess if you could figure out a way to masturbate without any erotic imagery/thoughts then you'd be all set in the church.

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Because it's lust, is what most Christians will tell you. You're thinking about sex/sexual stuff outside of marriage, which is just as bad in God's eyes.

I guess if you could figure out a way to masturbate without any erotic imagery/thoughts then you'd be all set in the church.

Whats so wrong with lust/thinking of sexual erotic things outside of marriage then?

quote:Originally posted by SpecialCookie:

Whats so wrong with lust/thinking of sexual erotic things outside of marriage then?

Thoughts lead to actions.

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Thoughts lead to actions.

Its not God made it possible so we can control ourselves.

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Thoughts lead to actions.

Thats quite a blanket statement.

What verse in the Bible does it say anything against masterbation?

quote:Originally posted by SpecialCookie:

Whats so wrong with lust/thinking of sexual erotic things outside of marriage then?

They are adultery, looking at a women you are not married to is adultery and Jesus says you should gouge out your eyes to prevent it. They used to give lobotomies to stop people from masturbating and many other things.

my theology teacher ( dont ask y i was at a private school, rather not talk about it http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif) )said that it was only a sin if u think of something wen u do it...so do it normal, but right b4 u cum, clear your mind http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Because it's lust, is what most Christians will tell you. You're thinking about sex/sexual stuff outside of marriage, which is just as bad in God's eyes.

I guess if you could figure out a way to masturbate without any erotic imagery/thoughts then you'd be all set in the church.

So is it okay to masturbate to pictures of dead babies and stuff? I'm not a christian, but that's what i do anyway.

No offense, but it's kind of stupid to ask why sins are sins.

Most of the time there's no logical reason.

Cheers,

Lost

So because I do ot almost entirely mechanically, I'm cool with Jesus? Bullshit.

Hmmm...

If you don't want it to be a sin, when you Masturbate, think of Jesus!

quote:Originally posted by SpecialCookie:

Whats so wrong with lust/thinking of sexual erotic things outside of marriage then?

It says in the book of Matthew in the New Testament, when it explains the 10 original sins (commandments), it states:

"..Thou shalt not lust for women, even in the mind, because, if you have, you have already committed adultry in your mind.."

Or something of the same caliber.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

No offense, but it's kind of stupid to ask why sins are sins.

Most of the time there's no logical reason.

Cheers,

Lost

I'd beg to differ- understanding (or at least trying to) why something is a sin means that

a) you can have a better understanding of God, and how God views human interaction

b) moving beyond a mechanistic keeping of rules and being able to move towards building life in a way that more accurately reflects God's desire for a wholistic community between God and people

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

I'd beg to differ- understanding (or at least trying to) why something is a sin means that

a) you can have a better understanding of God, and how God views human interaction

b) moving beyond a mechanistic keeping of rules and being able to move towards building life in a way that more accurately reflects God's desire for a wholistic community between God and people

I'd just like to point out that that makes a few assumptions. One, that there is a God. Two, that you would be able to understand his reasoning. Christians love to pull out the "How can you know the mind of God" card. Three, that there is a reason behind what is a sin... and so on.

quote:Originally posted by Hentai:

But you're killing innocent sperm. Thats murder and you've violated the 1st commandment.

The 1st commandment has nothing to do with murder.

quote:Originally posted by techemer:

The 1st commandment has nothing to do with murder.



Who cares what order they are in. Anyone who needs a book to tell them that murder is wrong could quite possibly be mentally retarded. Infact, I feel bad for anyone who takes the bible and its teachings seriously. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Getting off is no sin. If you don't you might develop prostate cancer, have elivated stress levels, be uptight, and all around grumpy and repressed.

The Book Of Matthew was writen in a time when people had a little less self control and had no respect for women. So, thinking about Sex might lead to men being barbaric and doing stupid shit. Towel Please...

despite many years of biblical studies i have to admit that i don't know wether masturbation is a sin or not.

the thought accompanying it may be lustful but not necessary sinful (if a husband thinks of his wife then his thoughts aren't sinful).

on the whole personally i reckon god probably has more important things to worry about.

something to do with an adulteror(sp) in the old testament pulling out and jacking off the ground where his seed fell became infertile or something like that didn't pay much attention to the RE teacher he talked shite.

^^^ Onan twice in one week?

God kills kittens when you do it.

http://www.pvps4free.com/default.aspx?r=100592

http://www.mp3players4free.com/default.aspx?r=100701

A little legit linky for your troubles http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

I'd just like to point out that that makes a few assumptions. One, that there is a God. Two, that you would be able to understand his reasoning. Christians love to pull out the "How can you know the mind of God" card. Three, that there is a reason behind what is a sin... and so on.

Yep, I agree entirely that those assumptions are in there. Why? Because for me a discussion of sin can only exist within the context of a God who wants us to reach out to Him, and (at least I'd like to think) does things for a reason.

QUOTE Originally posted by Hentai:

Infact, I feel bad for anyone who takes the bible and its teachings seriously. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) /QUOTE

Thank You for feeling bad for me, i reciprocate the gesture, for not taking it serious. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

amazing, so many say that it is not a sin, but i wonder how many here know what sin is, and the seriousness of sin. Sin is what seperates us from God. Sin is doing what God said not to do, and not doing what God said to do. Not that being sinless can be attained by works, because we were born into sin. Being sinless can only happen from Jesus' "work on the cross".

Jackketch, i agree with you, i'm not sure if the act, in and of itself, is sin (per your husband and wife example). As to a relief (or playing out) of lust, then yes, it must be a sin.

People tend to play down the seriousness of what sin is (for many reasons). It is impossible to realize the need for a Savior if one doesnt know (or convinces ones-self) that there is no sin (or that something isnt sin).

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

amazing, so many say that it is not a sin, but i wonder how many here know what sin is, and the seriousness of sin. Sin is what seperates us from God. Sin is doing what God said not to do, and not doing what God said to do. Not that being sinless can be attained by works, because we were born into sin. Being sinless can only happen from Jesus' "work on the cross".

Jackketch, i agree with you, i'm not sure if the act, in and of itself, is sin (per your husband and wife example). As to a relief (or playing out) of lust, then yes, it must be a sin.

People tend to play down the seriousness of what sin is (for many reasons). It is impossible to realize the need for a Savior if one doesnt know (or convinces ones-self) that there is no sin (or that something isnt sin).

Yeah, I mean, look at how much Jesus had to say about masturbation... and abortion... and euthenasia... and homosexual clergy... and about how much God wants to make you rich and happy... and the length of the tassels on your robe

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Yeah, I mean, look at how much Jesus had to say about masturbation... and abortion... and euthenasia... and homosexual clergy... and about how much God wants to make you rich and happy... and the length of the tassels on your robe

Jesus' purpose was to fulfill the law and the prophets. Not to give more laws.

He fulfilled, so He saved/saves, will continue to save.

masterbation = lust, coveting, holding self more important than God = sin

abortion = murder = sin

euthenasia = murder = sin

homosexual = lust = sin

length of tassels = coveting peoples honor, not giving honor to God = sin

this was short version cause its time to go to work

God Bless you

quote:Originally posted by diehard993:

It says in the book of Matthew in the New Testament, when it explains the 10 original sins (commandments), it states:

"..Thou shalt not lust for women, even in the mind, because, if you have, you have already committed adultry in your mind.."

Or something of the same caliber.

Do you think everything written in the bible is a blanket statement or are some things really meant to apply specifically to those the letters were written to?

Weren't these people supposed to be living a kind of monastic life that required them to be focused on things of the 'spirit' versus things of the 'world'?

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Thoughts lead to actions.

For a blanket statement...that is a good one.

After all...actions are borne of thought...

quote:Originally posted by Hentai:

But you're killing innocent sperm. Thats murder and you've violated the 1st commandment.

Killing innocent sperm versus killing guilty sperm? Not all sperm survive long enough to fertalize an egg...who's guilty of their death? Sperm is only potential for life...but they are not life until the unite with an egg...then there is life in all its true potential.

Or so it seems to me.

quote:Originally posted by outcast:

Killing innocent sperm versus killing guilty sperm? Not all sperm survive long enough to fertalize an egg...who's guilty of their death? Sperm is only potential for life...but they are not life until the unite with an egg...then there is life in all its true potential.

Or so it seems to me.



Frankly, when you get down to it, the egg is just potential too. So for Christians to stay consistant, they have to be against any spilling of sperm, not in your wife. Oh, and I beleive when a woman menstrates, an egg leaves her body. Wouldn't that make her a potential baby killer every month?

If man created God in his im...wait, I mean, if God created man in his image, then that obviously means God has genitals. And thus, God would have had to have used them at some point in time, since God is allowed to sin, but nobody else is (jealousy, wrath, et. al.). But since nothing compares to the Almighty, no other option aside from knuckle dusting would present itself. And that, boys and girls, is why masturbation is evil.

[This message has been edited by Charles Thunder (edited 12-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Oh, and I beleive when a woman menstruates, an egg leaves her body. Wouldn't that make her a potential baby killer every month?

Kind of refutes the anti-stem-cell-research crap those religious gas bags are pushing on us, doesn't it?

[This message has been edited by Charles Thunder (edited 12-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by outcast:

Killing innocent sperm versus killing guilty sperm? Not all sperm survive long enough to fertalize an egg...who's guilty of their death? Sperm is only potential for life...but they are not life until the unite with an egg...then there is life in all its true potential.

Or so it seems to me.



Ummm....I was only kidding. You're analyzing that WAY too much.

quote:Originally posted by Hentai:

Ummm....I was only kidding. You're analyzing that WAY too much.

Yea...I thought you were kidding...but some might actually believe that.

Everytime you piss you release millions of sperm that are being replaced by new ones. So, if thats the case then is pissing a sin? Just typing this out thousands of sperm have died from age. Is me living but not using every one of them that's produced a sin? Or is just the imagining of a woman the sin? The mere image of the female form in the male mind will induce an erection in most. I think that it is so ingrained in our minds that I'm betting someone who has never seen a woman will produce the same reaction. Why did God let us be made with that sinful reaction if he deems it bad? Does god have the same reaction then? If he created us in his image then wouldn't he?

quote:Originally posted by outcast:

Killing innocent sperm versus killing guilty sperm? Not all sperm survive long enough to fertalize an egg...who's guilty of their death? Sperm is only potential for life...but they are not life until the unite with an egg...then there is life in all its true potential.

Or so it seems to me.



Sperm is only potential for life



but they are not life until the unite with an egg...then there is life in all its true potential.



Just couldn't help contradicting youself there could you?

Sperm is only potential life.

Fertilized egg has true potential.

Adding true doesn't make it any damn different.

[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 12-09-2004).]

Oh... and why is Masturbation a sin?

Because its fun.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Sperm is only potential for life



but they are not life until the unite with an egg...then there is life in all its true potential.



Just couldn't help contradicting youself there could you?

Sperm is only potential life.

Fertilized egg has true potential.

Adding true doesn't make it any damn different.

[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 12-09-2004).]

Um, no. All three are potential, just in varying degrees of distance from fruition.

Have christians always been this ignorant of their own religion?

First it's considered against G-ds commands to add or take away any commandments from/to the Torah (old testament) therefore Paul, Matthew and anyone else that either said the old laws didn't apply anymore or that added commandments to G-ds word are quite simple lying sinners.

Secondly the only real mention of "wasting" seed is in Gen 38:9, but this is clearly not about masturbating, it is the story of Onan which is about not proforming the husbandly duty of giving his brothers widow offspring. So feel free to be as religious as you want and jack off as much as you want (providing you're not in public)

Thirdly, during menstration women are kind of punished. During this time they are considered unclean (unclean actually being the termed used for those that commited certain sin) and are supposed to be kept away from the men in a seperate area until they finsih menstrating and have a Mikvah.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Frankly, when you get down to it, the egg is just potential too. So for Christians to stay consistant, they have to be against any spilling of sperm, not in your wife. Oh, and I beleive when a woman menstrates, an egg leaves her body. Wouldn't that make her a potential baby killer every month?

Add to that the fact that wet dreams and the like are a natural bodily function... the spilling of the seed happens whether you want it to or not.

Yep...couldn't be the 'spilling of seed'...otherwise that would exclude women in the 'sinfulness' of it wouldn't it? Since women masturbate without 'spilling seed'.

Damn it! Now I've got to go read some scripture! You've got me curious now...

Haircuts make baby Jesus cry, too.

Leviticus 19:27

Sin or no sin, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, AND NEITHER SHOULD ANYBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll continue to jerk off. Morality is overrated sometimes.

quote:Originally posted by 000000:

Getting off is no sin. If you don't you might develop prostate cancer, have elivated stress levels, be uptight, and all around grumpy and repressed.

The Book Of Matthew was writen in a time when people had a little less self control and had no respect for women. So, thinking about Sex might lead to men being barbaric and doing stupid shit. Towel Please...

Good point. You should be nominated Rookie of the Year. *Passes towel.*

It is? Im definatly going to hell.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Jesus' purpose was to fulfill the law and the prophets. Not to give more laws.

He fulfilled, so He saved/saves, will continue to save.

Then what was the whole purpose of " You have heard it said... but I say to you"? Or "A new commandment I give you" ?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Add to that the fact that wet dreams and the like are a natural bodily function... the spilling of the seed happens whether you want it to or not.



Now now...you're supposed to say that the Devil came to you during the night and you had no power whatsoever.

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Then what was the whole purpose of " You have heard it said... but I say to you"? Or "A new commandment I give you" ?

I'm familiar with "You have heard...", but i'm drawing a blank in "A new commandment.."

Would you care to point me to the verse(s) you are refering to, and maybe we can get some understanding of them, together?

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

I'm familiar with "You have heard...", but i'm drawing a blank in "A new commandment.."

Would you care to point me to the verse(s) you are refering to, and maybe we can get some understanding of them, together?

John 13:34

Alot of so called sins, that christ would so called be against have nothiung to do with the teachings of the bieble. Where do you soee in the bible christ sayiung dont smoke pot? Nohwhere!

Fuck yea bitch, suck that shit like salami!

Christ kicked over caufers in ancient banks. Muuuuuuuuthafuckaaaa.



I'm not even christian. Doesn't mean I don;t respect christ.

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

John 13:34

Well, since loving your neighbor is not a new command, Jesus was probably giving new meaning or emphasis.

This is from Gill's Exposition 1887:

JOH 13:34 ...Christ taking his leave of his disciples, gives them his; which were, that they

love one another:

as brethren in the same family, children of the same Father, and fellow disciples with each other; by keeping and agreeing together, praying one for another, bearing one another's burdens, forbearing and forgiving one another, admonishing each other, and building up one another in faith and holiness: and this he calls "a new commandment"; that is, a very excellent one; as a "new name", and a "new song", denote excellent ones; or it is so called, because it is set forth by Christ, in a new edition of it, and newly and more clearly explained, than before; and being enforced with a new argument and pattern, never used before,

as I have loved you;

and to be observed in a new manner, not "in the oldness of the letter, but in the newness of the spirit": besides, though this commandment, as to the matter of it, is the same with that of Moses, (Leviticus 19:18) ; yet it takes in more, and "new" objects; since by "neighbour" there, seems to be meant "the children of their people", the Jews; and so they understood it only of their countrymen, and of proselytes at furthest, whereas this reaches to any "other" person; see (Romans 13:8) ; and as the measure, as well as the motive is new, for it is not now "as thy self", but "as I have loved you", the Jew has no reason to object as he does , to its being called a "new commandment": and its being "new", carries in it a reason or argument, why it should be observed, as does also the following clause;

as I have loved you, that ye also love one another;

than which, nothing can, or should, more strongly engage to it: as Christ has loved his people freely, notwithstanding all their unworthiness and ungratefulness, so should they love one another, though there may be many things in them observable, which are disagreeable; as Christ loves all his children without any distinction, so should they love one another, whether poor or rich, weaker or stronger, lesser or greater believers; and as Christ loves them not in word only, but in deed and in truth, so should they love one another with a pure heart fervently, and by love serve one another.



As to: Then what was the whole purpose of " You have heard it said... but I say to you"?

the way i understand these, it's the same thing... a showing of love and forgiveness toward your fellow man.

Similar also would be what Jesus said about divorce. That God was against it but "allowed" Moses to "allow" it and make a law reguarding it, because God knows (and Moses knew) that people "have hard hearts".

1887! Crickey.. where did you pull that one from?

quote:or it is so called, because it is set forth by Christ, in a new edition of it, and newly and more clearly explained, than before; and being enforced with a new argument and pattern, never used before,

Which is kinda my point.

quote:and to be observed in a new manner, not "in the oldness of the letter, but in the newness of the spirit": besides, though this commandment, as to the matter of it, is the same with that of Moses, (Leviticus 19:18) ; yet it takes in more, and "new" objects; since by "neighbour" there, seems to be meant "the children of their people", the Jews; and so they understood it only of their countrymen, and of proselytes at furthest, whereas this reaches to any "other" person

Which, again is more or less my point.

Well do you think god would rather us be raping women that mastuerbating? I don't think so, therefore I see myself as doing a favor to society.

As long as god still doesn't mind me snorting coke and masturbating to japanese robot porn, all is well.

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

1887! Crickey.. where did you pull that one from?

and just think, i've got stuff in my garage that i haven't looked at for decades http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Outlaw Skumfuck:

Well do you think god would rather us be raping women that mastuerbating? I don't think so, therefore I see myself as doing a favor to society.

What the fuck are you talking about? Deuteronomy 22:28-29.

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [a] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

Certainly alot better than the alternative for the girl.

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Thoughts lead to actions.



right now i'm thinking about killing everyone that believes masturbation is evil. then im gonna jack off in their eye. but im only thinking it, don't worry