Few characters in the Bible are known for performing miracles. Jesus was known to have performed several, but what if it was all a hypnotic trick?

He healed. Hypnotist are able to block pain. If pain was all that was keeping a person from walking, hypnosis could do the trick.

He fed multitudes off of a loaf of bread and one fish. He could suggest that they “feel full” and they would go home feeling like they ate a wonderful meal.

He changed water to wine. Again, suggest that it is wine and people would think it a pretty good vintage.

There’s other miracles, but the pattern is easy to see. If you don’t think Jesus could possibly have hypnotized that many people, I’d like to point out the hypnotists that people hire for entertainment who can put a whole group of people under. Add to that, there were a lot of people who really wanted to believe in a Messiah so it wouldn’t have taken much suggestion to push them over the edge.

A good hypnotist can make you smell cotton candy every time someone says elephant. Is it too much to wonder if Jesus was a very good hypnotist, capable of working a crowd, and the stories of his hypnotic wonders spread and became more elaborate and eventually became accepted as miracles?

I would think of him as the "David Blane" of his time. new,hip, taking his act to the people. I could see just about anyone who knew

some basic magic trics back then being able to claim the title prophet. its very likly

That's a good theory, but I think hypnotists are full of shit. What is your stance on religion Parallel? Do you beleive in god, or a higher power?

Do I believe in a higher power? Not in the traditional sense of one male god. Do I believe in powers that the average person is unaware of? Certainly. A lot goes on that we can’t explain. Everyday, more and more things are being explained. Its an odd balance.

Heaven and hell? Nope. All chances for joy or suffering are to be found while living. Death is like a train station. Nobody lives there, they are just passing through on their way to some other destination.

Angels/Demons that answer to God or Satan? Again, no. Sources of good and evil energy, yes.

Miracles? No. And yes. Parting the Red Sea I don’t believe happened. But there are a million little things I’ve seen that seem miraculous.

Something to chew on, eh?

You pretty much summed up my feeling about it. Do you have Msn Instant messenger.

quote:Originally posted by ASH_shop_S-mart:

That's a good theory, but I think hypnotists are full of shit.

That pretty much true they are so full of it they can fill up other people. All they do is convince people very well.

If a=b, and b=c, then Jesus was full of shit?

quote:Originally posted by 91stParallel:

If a=b, and b=c, then Jesus was full of shit?

Damn, how late do you have to work tonight?

while i don't think that christ was the Blane of his time ,he certainly had a hypnotic personality.

it has been fairly conclusively shown that he manipulated events to fulfill messianic prophesies.



[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 12-17-2004).]

Or the evints were ther beacuse he was the Messiah?

quote:Originally posted by madamwench:

Or the evints were ther beacuse he was the Messiah?

See what christianity leads to...bad spelling.

quote:Originally posted by madamwench:

Or the evints were ther beacuse he was the Messiah?

No. I recall that there were stories like "Jesus did thing A ,because L was said in the holy scriptures". This has nothing(or not at least much)to do with christianity hating...

From what I understand, (and my bible knowledge is pretty limited) there were several things that the true Messiah was supposed to do to prove himself to the people. Those "things" whatever they were, were well known to the people hundreds of years before Jesus. So it would have been very easy for him to use it like a checklist.

quote:Originally posted by ASH_shop_S-mart:

See what christianity leads to...bad spelling.

NO... Dyslexia leads to bad spelling...

quote:Originally posted by 91stParallel:

From what I understand, (and my bible knowledge is pretty limited) there were several things that the true Messiah was supposed to do to prove himself to the people. Those "things" whatever they were, were well known to the people hundreds of years before Jesus. So it would have been very easy for him to use it like a checklist.



But the virgin birth... being crucified...stabbed with a spear things out of his control, predicted in the scriptures and happened...

But there is a lot of speculation that the "virgin birth" was not a part of the story of Jesus until after Christianity was a well established religion. It fit in better with the notion of those talking about "original sin".

Also back to the orignel topic How could jesus Hyponotise people into stopping bleeding, or raising from the dead...?

[This message has been edited by madamwench (edited 12-22-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by 91stParallel:

But there is a lot of speculation that the "virgin birth" was not a part of the story of Jesus until after Christianity was a well established religion. It fit in better with the notion of those talking about "original sin".

There was one human being that knew for sure if He was born from a virgin. Mary.

All Mary had to do, to stop her son from dying on the cross, was to say that He was not from virgin birth.

I think very few mothers would watch their own son die that way, if there was something they could do about it.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

There was one human being that knew for sure if He was born from a virgin. Mary.

All Mary had to do, to stop her son from dying on the cross, was to say that He was not from virgin birth.

I think very few mothers would watch their own son die that way, if there was something they could do about it.



But Jesus would also have to agree with 'The Virgin Mary'. Jesus would never agree.

I disagree they have joesphs word as well Further more ther are tales of the Magi visting bethlehem...

[This message has been edited by madamwench (edited 12-22-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

There was one human being that knew for sure if He was born from a virgin. Mary.

All Mary had to do, to stop her son from dying on the cross, was to say that He was not from virgin birth.

I think very few mothers would watch their own son die that way, if there was something they could do about it.



But if the "virgin birth" was just something that became a part of Christianity hundreds of years later, that wouldn't have been an issue at the time of his death. Besides, even if Mary told everyone that he wasn't from a virgin birth, it would have had little impact on his death sentence. He was executed because powerful political figures saw him and his teachings as a threat. It was what he taught moreso than how he was born that got everybody riled.

Par, your email rejected my invite. DO you have another?

Well I'm off for the day.

Merry Christmas Parallel. Get high..haha

[This message has been edited by ASH_shop_S-mart (edited 12-23-2004).]

But the virgin birth was necesery for him to be the messiah... there fore it wasnt added later, furthermore all jesus had to do was be disproved to be the son of god and he would have lived

quote:Originally posted by madamwench:

But the virgin birth was necesery for him to be the messiah... there fore it wasnt added later, furthermore all jesus had to do was be disproved to be the son of god and he would have lived

Well, I can't say for sure whether it was added later or was actually accepted during his time...wasn't there myself. However, do you really think that disproving the virgin birth would have disuaded his followers? Jesus was not killed for being Jesus. He was killed because people believed in him. He was a well meaning figure that some people merely blindly followed, while others saw this "movement" as the perfect means of political change. If you think that most of the followers of Jesus were total believers, you are a little naive. Most had an agenda.

That's what the high ranking jews were executing. They didn't want to bring the wrath of Rome down in their land. They didn't care at all about one man claiming to be the son of god, from virgin birth. It was the followers they feared. And they needed to remove their figurehead.

quote:Originally posted by 91stParallel:

But if the "virgin birth" was just something that became a part of Christianity hundreds of years later, that wouldn't have been an issue at the time of his death. Besides, even if Mary told everyone that he wasn't from a virgin birth, it would have had little impact on his death sentence. He was executed because powerful political figures saw him and his teachings as a threat. It was what he taught moreso than how he was born that got everybody riled.

He was claimed to be the Messiah. The messianic prophecies taught that the Messiah would be virgin born. He didnt not deny this claim. This is what they "found Him guilty" of. What He taught wasnt so much the reason He had them riles up. It was that He wasnt what they thought the Messiah would be, and that if He wasnt the Messiah but had the following of the people, they would be "out of a (cushy) job". They wanted the control, and they didnt want to be thought of as controlling, or thought of as abusing their honored position. (in a nutshell).

So they were looking for ways to discredit Him. Disproving virgin birth would have done that. It may not have changed His sentence, but Mary may have tried anything to save her son. But if she did, that would have been broadcast across the centuries.

quote:Originally posted by 91stParallel:

Jesus was not killed for being Jesus. He was killed because people believed in him.

He was killed because He came to be sacrified for our sins.