Could Hell really be that bad? After all, there are many 'fallen angels' in Hell, and they have a good living, so for every human spirit that goes to Hell, wouldn't it be the same, that they also have a good living?

Thoughts on this?

Hell is a place to cleanse your soul the more you hang on to your beliefs the harder its going to be on you.

No reason to worry really, it doesn't exist.

You can prove that one to me ...

Well, when Judaism began, Hell didn't even exist. It was added later...aka a modification. If people can just add things to a religion, or take them away, obviously it's bullshit. Disregarding older harsh scripture and replacing it with new, more omptimistic shit just to get more recruits is the sign of a religion meant for control, not a search for truth.

Hell and Heaven were made up to get more followers.

Well that depends Jesus claimed he wasnt there to change scripture but to amend it, You could take it further and say weel this isn't in Gensis therefore it must be crap it wasnt there when it was started ... there is such a thing as taking it to far...

quote:Originally posted by Encrypted Soldier:

Could Hell really be that bad? After all, there are many 'fallen angels' in Hell, and they have a good living,

How do you know ?

What's a good living ?

What would be a good living to an angel ?

In any event, hell is no picnic, or it wouldn't be called hell, but picnic.



[This message has been edited by Uncus (edited 12-27-2004).]

Think about what sorts of things Christians claim are 'evil'... Many of them are pleasurable things, right? If hell is full of evil, then perhaps when we get there we get to have lots and lots of promiscuous sex and listen to metal all day long.

Not that I actually believe in hell. Or heaven. But it would be quite amusing if I went to hell and found it was great fun.

quote:Originally posted by Jez:

Not that I actually believe in hell. Or heaven. But it would be quite amusing if I went to hell and found it was great fun.

I doubt that you will find anything amusing in Hell. Neither will Satan.

Yeah burning sulphur and fire, sounds like a bomb...

Yeah, I don't believe in Satan either.

If God sends me to hell, i'm breaking out. Think about it; if i'm there for eternity, and can never die, theres <b>nothing</b> i can't do. And that includes doing the greatest jailbreak of all history.

one of the best titles I've ever seen in here

I love you man

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

I doubt that you will find anything amusing in Hell. Neither will Satan.



Thank you for pointing out the blatant misconception.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Satan is NOT the "lord of hell". He is thrown in there against his will just like everyone else.

No one is in hell yet. No one will be until the end, when everyone not in the book of life, as well as satan, the fallen angels, and the antichrist, gets thrown into the lake of fire.

Heck, I don't even believe it, but at least I know.

For goodness sake people, read the bible. don't just take the little cartoons of little red devils with pitchforks at face value.

The other way to look at it is that Hell is the ultimate seperation from God. The idea that we are all connected in someway to God even on Earth is meant to make life more bearable, I suppose.

I imagine severing that connection is painful as well as having your "immortal soul" being tormented forever.

Just a thought.

hell probably doesnt even exist. i think theres a very slim chance something similar to hell exists, but theres no way your soul will be tortured unimagenbly for eternity. thats just fucking rediculous.

Relax.

It's a myth.

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:

How do you know ?

What's a good living ?

What would be a good living to an angel ?

In any event, hell is no picnic, or it wouldn't be called hell, but picnic.

[This message has been edited by Uncus (edited 12-27-2004).]

Well put.

quote:Originally posted by Suicidal Mongoose:

If God sends me to hell, i'm breaking out. Think about it; if i'm there for eternity, and can never die, theres nothing i can't do. And that includes doing the greatest jailbreak of all history.

Couldn't have put it better myself,

But then i don't actually believe there is a hell

Being christian and reading the book, I noticed that in the introduction of christianity to society it also introduced a new concept to the basic forms of judaism-Hell.

Christianity was used by the romans to try and force paganism on the jews by introducing concepts to them that makes it easier to accept and threatening abolishment to hell if they refused. A whole new era was born as they introduced the new form of religion- christianity.

The form that everyone so blindly follows today.

quote:Originally posted by SwordChucks:

Christianity was used by the romans to try and force paganism on the jews by introducing concepts to them that makes it easier to accept and threatening abolishment to hell if they refused. A whole new era was born as they introduced the new form of religion- christianity.

Christianity was used to force paganism on the Jews ? Does that make sense ?

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Relax.

It's a myth.

What do you believe in?

quote:Originally posted by Jez:

Think about what sorts of things Christians claim are 'evil'... Many of them are pleasurable things, right? If hell is full of evil, then perhaps when we get there we get to have lots and lots of promiscuous sex and listen to metal all day long.

Yeah, thats exactly what I was thinking. If having a crazy orgy with 15 women is sooo evil... then wouldn't it be in hell?

Then hell would be good.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Thank you for pointing out the blatant misconception.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Satan is NOT the "lord of hell". He is thrown in there against his will just like everyone else.

No one is in hell yet. No one will be until the end, when everyone not in the book of life, as well as satan, the fallen angels, and the antichrist, gets thrown into the lake of fire.

Heck, I don't even believe it, but at least I know.

For goodness sake people, read the bible. don't just take the little cartoons of little red devils with pitchforks at face value.

I've read the revelations, and I know that all the demons are supposed to go to hell at judgment day.

Then again, I don't believe that bullshit either.

quote:Originally posted by Clifford the Big Red Bong:

hell probably doesnt even exist. i think theres a very slim chance something similar to hell exists, but theres no way your soul will be tortured unimagenbly for eternity. thats just fucking rediculous.

Yeah, i think of hell more as a punishment. for instance, if you killed someone, you'd only go to for a certain amount of time, then realised into heaven, or into life again. Buuuut, since hell is a place where your immortal soul is tourched, that means it is in terrible pain. if heaven is a place where there is no pain, then your immortal soul must not ahve any feeling.

but then again, if you go to hell... you'll eventually get used to it.

I don't belive in heaven or hell, but if they are real than where do you think they are located at? Is it possible that "hell" could just be a state of mind?

For me,those fucked up religions are jus talkin bout hell so that the believers would fear it and be faithful to their gods! Its a scam..Hell might not be so bad actualy..

In short, Yes; hell really could be that bad.

Hell should invade heaven and kill god. Whats stopping them, there is probaly a hell of a lot more people in hell anyway and if there all immortal why not take heaven?

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Well, when Judaism began, Hell didn't even exist. It was added later...aka a modification. If people can just add things to a religion, or take them away, obviously it's bullshit. Disregarding older harsh scripture and replacing it with new, more omptimistic shit just to get more recruits is the sign of a religion meant for control, not a search for truth.

Hell and Heaven were made up to get more followers.

so then what happens when you die? you finally get some goddamn rest around here?

I'll take that as a yes. Sweet.

-Fa'ad

quote:Originally posted by Nameless Dude:

Hell should invade heaven and kill god. Whats stopping them, there is probaly a hell of a lot more people in hell anyway and if there all immortal why not take heaven?

If God was able to banish Satan once, he can probably do it again.

hey do you guys remember Ezekeil 25:17 i dunno just wondering

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in thename of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the Darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

quote:Originally posted by Encrypted Soldier:

Could Hell really be that bad? After all, there are many 'fallen angels' in Hell, and they have a good living, so for every human spirit that goes to Hell, wouldn't it be the same, that they also have a good living?

Thoughts on this?

How did you come to the conclusion that fallen angels are having a good time in Hell ?

Here are some scriptures that describe Hell, to put it in to perspective for you:

Mark 9:43 - If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [ Some manuscripts out, 44 where / “ ‘their worm does not die, / and the fire is not quenched.’]

Luke 16:23 -

In hell, [Greek Hades] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

2 Peter 2:4 - ...putting them into gloomy dungeons...(talking about the fallen angels)

Doesn't sound like a party to me !

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 01-09-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

How did you come to the conclusion that fallen angels are having a good time in Hell ?

Here are some scriptures that describe Hell, to put it in to perspective for you:

Mark 9:43 - If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [ Some manuscripts out, 44 where / “ ‘their worm does not die, / and the fire is not quenched.’]

Luke 16:23 -

In hell, [Greek Hades] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

2 Peter 2:4 - ...putting them into gloomy dungeons...(talking about the fallen angels)

Doesn't sound like a party to me !



Gayest. Username. Ever.

Hell should be a blast, tons of people have told me I am going there after my "I could give a fuck less about those Thai bastards that got owned." comment.

It's true though.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Well, when Judaism began, Hell didn't even exist. It was added later...aka a modification. If people can just add things to a religion, or take them away, obviously it's bullshit. Disregarding older harsh scripture and replacing it with new, more omptimistic shit just to get more recruits is the sign of a religion meant for control, not a search for truth.

Hell and Heaven were made up to get more followers.

You mean when Adam was born ? *laughs*

Moses initiated Judaism about 1600 BC.

Moses happens to be the author of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy (also known as the Pentateuch).

There are four words that translate into the word "HELL." Sheol (KJV), Hades (KJV), and Gehenna, and Tartarus.

Sheol, occurs in the Old Testament sixty-five times. It means "unseen world" or "unseen state."

Psalm 9:17 - The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

Genesis 37:35 - All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to the grave to my son." So his father wept for him. (the word "grave" in Hebrew translates into "Sheol".)

Deuteronomy 32:22 -

For a fire has been kindled by my wrath, one that burns to the realm of death [ Hebrew to Sheol ] below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains.

Sheol is described as the "abode of the wicked" in Numbers 16:33 - They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

Lucifer was the first to be cast down into Hell:

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels...

The Greek word for hell in the New Testament, "Hades", means the same thing as "Sheol" in the Old Testament Hebrew.

Lucifer was down before man was created.

I think it is evident that Hell has existed since before man (if you believe the Bible, which I do.)

God tells us that He wrote the Bible, and that it's message cannot be changed:

John 10:35 - If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken... (KJV)

Matthew 5:18 - I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Jesus)

that we are divinely inspired:

2 Corinthians 3:3 - You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

and Paul describes the teachings of the Bible:

1 Corinthians 2:9-13 - But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: ...Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (KJV)

The Bible is translated and printed so that all men might hear the word, understand it, and be saved.

If we were all forced to understand Greek or Latin in America, much of what our science and psychology is based on would not exist.

God gives His permission for these translations:

2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (KJV).

and again, the Bible is said to be divinely inspired:

2 Peter 1:20-21 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (KJV)

He is also divine enough to ensure that His promise of delivering the word in truth without fail remains steadfast.

At least three proofs have been offered to prove that the Bible could not have been written by humans without the direct inspiration of God.

1. Prophecy - Various modern-day writers have counted many hundreds of prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) alone. Conservative Christians generally state that all of the 200 or so prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures that foretold the life of Jesus Christ came true; they had a 100% accuracy. Hundreds of other prophecies not related to Jesus have already come true. This could not have happened unless the authors of the Bible were inspired by God.

2. Bible Codes - A research team at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, headed by Eliyahu Rips used a Equidistant Letter Sequence (ELS) analysis method to search for hidden Bible codes in the Book of Genesis. They found many names, birth dates and death dates imbedded in Genesis of famous Jews who lived millennia after the book was written. Other researchers examined the entire Pentateuch and found descriptions of recent world events and predictions in our future. http://www.religioustolerance.org/biblcode.htm

3. Archeolgoical Data - In his book "The new evidence that demands a verdict," Josh McDowell quotes a number of archaeologists who maintain that biblical accounts are in total agreement with the archeological record:

Nelson Glueck: "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference."

F.F. Bruce: "...it may be legitimate to say that archaeology has confirmed the New Testament record."

McDowell and others make that point that it is inconceivable that a book covering thousands of years of history could be this free of error unless it was written under the inspiration of God.

Be realistic...I do not maintain that there aren't ANY false witnesses, greedy "Christians", and power-hungry clergy, but if you are talking about the living God, and the purest form of Christianity (as presented by Christ), I have to say that you don't know what you are talking about.

Of course some men will ruin it for the rest of us...but it is up to you to read the Bible, and pray that God give you the discernment to establish what is true.

And I'm tired. *lol*

Heaven, Hell, it could all be a state of mind. Perception is a tricky thing.

you cant comprehend that that there is a hell, and there isnt a hell - wait untill you die



http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

The thing that I find myself bothered with, is if we take the stance that God is omnipotent and all-powerful, how can a being with that much responsibility punish us for mistakes we did in a period of, on average, 70-75 years. I think that is a little bit harsh to judge a soul to an eternity of pain for that small time period.

Now, yes, in that 70-75 years we are given the opportunity to repent and accept the word of God. A few problems, the classic "What about people who never experience the religion of Christianity?" Can God really expect people who never are introduced to the religion to repent and accept a savior they've never even heard of.

Second, what about the fact that most of Christianity is a young religion compared to others. It's like the US, which is still a young nation compared to others. What makes the US and Christianity so great that they are the only right religion in the world. People have the concept of God entirely wrong, God doesn't care who or what you worship, as long as you live by the ideals that should be taught by any good religion. That is respect, love, and the attainment of wisdom, and a few other things that I havn't thought of yet.

quote:Originally posted by noobie123:

you cant comprehend that that there is a hell, and there isnt a hell - wait untill you die



http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

After I die, I will go somewhere. God says I will go to heaven, or I will go to hell.

There...I have just comprehended it.

:-D

quote:Originally posted by NightShaman:



The thing that I find myself bothered with, is if we take the stance that God is omnipotent and all-powerful, how can a being with that much responsibility punish us for mistakes we did in a period of, on average, 70-75 years. I think that is a little bit harsh to judge a soul to an eternity of pain for that small time period.

Now, yes, in that 70-75 years we are given the opportunity to repent and accept the word of God. A few problems, the classic "What about people who never experience the religion of Christianity?" Can God really expect people who never are introduced to the religion to repent and accept a savior they've never even heard of.

Second, what about the fact that most of Christianity is a young religion compared to others. It's like the US, which is still a young nation compared to others. What makes the US and Christianity so great that they are the only right religion in the world. People have the concept of God entirely wrong, God doesn't care who or what you worship, as long as you live by the ideals that should be taught by any good religion. That is respect, love, and the attainment of wisdom, and a few other things that I havn't thought of yet.

Man did not always live only 75 (on average).

Adam lived to be 930 years old.

Noah was 950.

Lamech was 777 years old when he passed on.

As the Bible goes on, people began to live shorter lives.

Anyway, I just thought you might like to know that it was not always the way it is now...75 years is not all God limited us to. That is what Original Sin has limtited us to. God had intended that we live forever when He created Adam.

Another point I would like to make is that God knows our hearts...He knows the will of man, and what it is or is not capable of.

In light of this, it is fair to say that God is not being unjust when judging us. We may live only 75 years, but it takes only an instant to believe in Him and accept the salvation He offers.

If God saw that 75 years was not enough time, He would give us more.

What does it matter whether a person experiences the religion of Christianity or not ? As long as you have belief that God is the creator, and that Jesus died to save us, you need no religion.

If that is the extent of your knowledge of God on the day you die, you will most assuredly find yourself walking through the Pearly Gates.

Religion is man-made...not God-made.

God also says that no man will go without the knowledge of Him. That every man will have the opportunity to accept Him, or reject Him. Since God says that, it must be true.

"Our God is sovereign in His power. There is nothing that He cannot do if He wills it done. When we think of "those who have never heard" we think of human agency in salvation. God does use human agency, missionaries, to spread the Gospel of Christ, but does this in any way limit or hinder His overwhelming power?

Our Creator, who made the Heavens and the earth in six days, and stocked it with animals and plant life and sea life - what is beyond His grasp? "Your God is too small" if you assume that He is limited by man, or by what we consider the magnitude of the earth and its population. Man would take "six months" to travel to Mars, thousands of light years to travel to the nearest stars from our sun. But to God these are but specks of light, and earth but a speck of dust. If God wills that all men have a chance at salvation, He will certainly supply a way for all men to hear the Gospel.

If God wasn't going to insure that all men would get a chance at salvation through Christ, then it is certain that Jesus wouldn't have died for the sins of the whole world. If so, then the Father was needlessly cruel to His Son, which we cannot believe." http://www.russpickett.com/basic/allmen.htm

Romans 1:20-21 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (KJV)

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (NIV)

It is not only by man that men hear about and come to understand the presence of God in our universe.

His own creation is a testimony of His existence.

As said earlier, God has promised that all will have a chance, and that Christ died to atone for our sins and offer salvation to those that would accept Him.

If that is what He has said, then He will make a way for it to be so.

What you have said about God in your last paragraph is not only ill-informed, but your personal opinion.

If the Bible is God's word, inerrant in perfection, then we must take it literally and apply it to our lives.

In order to do that, we must believe that He is the only God, and that His commandments must be honored.

That means we cannot believe in whatever we want.

According to the Bible, the only way to salvation is through Christ Jesus.

If the Bible is true (which we believe), then we must worship God and God alone.

God [i]does[/b] care...enough to send a part of Himself to earth in the form of a human being (Jesus) to suffer persecution and murder.

Enough to endure our petulance and rebellion against Him.

It is important to Him that our spiritual lives focus on Him, and Him alone.

All "good" religions (non are good, since they are created by man) derive the attributes you deem worthy of human practice from God.

God established love, and respect. The attainment of wisdom is a human attribute, regardless of religion, so I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Anyway, if God established those things, then it is to Him we owe our allegiance and reverence.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

...God had intended that we live forever when He created Adam...



quote:Originally posted by God:

Oops!

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Well, when Judaism began, Hell didn't even exist. It was added later...aka a modification. If people can just add things to a religion, or take them away, obviously it's bullshit. Disregarding older harsh scripture and replacing it with new, more omptimistic shit just to get more recruits is the sign of a religion meant for control, not a search for truth.

Hell and Heaven were made up to get more followers.

I 100% agree with this. Hell is scare tactic, nothing more.

quote:Originally posted by Nameless Dude:

Hell should invade heaven and kill god. Whats stopping them, there is probaly a hell of a lot more people in hell anyway and if there all immortal why not take heaven?



Haha, thats what I was thinking. There has to be MANY, MANY more people in hell than in heaven.

If you're forced to have terrible pain for all eternity and can never die, what's stopping you from invading heaven? Have one of those evil generals in hell lead you, and gather up a giant army of millions. God would either kill you for good (thus ending your eternal pain) or the army would take over heaven. It's a win-win situation.

Who exactly tortues you in hell? Satan? I'm sure you could probably convince this satan to stop tortuing everyone and turn hell into a huge orgy and raving party.

Either that or get him to agree to stop torturing you if you join his army.



[This message has been edited by Cash Stealer (edited 01-14-2005).]