http://fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/hinduism_e.htm#_Toc63388455

If you are not particulary good at reading or have little patience for the topic, feel free to simply put: "Too long, didn't read."



The main discussion in this article by a mission was to dispute any relation or connection between the esoteric pracitices and beliefs of Hinduism(and Buddhism to a lesser extent) and Christianity. Obviously as well connecting both to unsaved paganism due to its lack of connection to Jesus or a different view of Jesus.

The practice of meditation is struck as a precursor to black magic due to the various sources and the author stating that initiates of these sects have psychic powers and can create illusions of reality, the illusions being a reflection of the illusion of divine consciousness in the caster's mind. Moreover, the practice of meditation is said to drop spiritual defenses to demonic posession due to the 'no-mind' state meditators have. This is a strange view of meditation, as even Christian monastaries have used meditation themselves. But the writer seems to state that meditation opens the mind to demonic powers. The missionary believes that even fellow Christians meditating on say, Christmas are given images of Christ's birth by demons and are being tricked. I would contest that it would be difficult to believe any kind of revelation by anyone in prayer due to the point that Satan can disguise himself as an angel. Any revelation could be dismissed as demonic by that notion.

I'm tired, I'll continue on this later, but I think this article was just very comprehensive on differences in Eastern and Western religious doctrine.

Just if you'd like to continue reading: http://fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/trap_king.htm

[This message has been edited by AngrySquirrel (edited 12-29-2004).]

Maybe every/most revelations have been manipulated by satan? The vision of Constantine being a possible example.

This could explain why the religion contradicts itself by being an institution ,worshiping graven images and promoting war through history.

Maybe all Jesus meant is that we are all God's children, him no more than us. Perhaps Satan intervened quickly with the intent of contaminating Christ's vision, and has steered history since.

Then again I don't believe in satan, except as a metaphor or state of mind.

I have not read your article yet, but I think I will as it seems very interesting. I want to point out however that "meditation" groups a variety of very different practices, which have only in common that you use your mind to do it.

What you call the "no mind" state is, if I am not mistaken, the "Wu wei" (no mind) of Ch'an (or Japanese zen) meditation, also called Za Zen (which may however be just a subdivision of Zen meditation). This "no mind" state it not at all the same thing as you achieve when you meditate on an object (such as a flower) or on an abstract idea (such as love), as Ch'an meditation (again, AFAIK) is supposed to result in a still mind, void of any thoughts, which is not the object of other kinds of meditation. That still mind may or may not be a desirable goal.

Then there are some, AFAIK, who meditate on "the light", visualizing light, and so forth.

There are plenty of other sorts of meditation. What could be called meditation in a Christian sense, such as the spiritual exercises of Ignatius of Loyola or other Saints is yet something different, AFAIK.



Ecit : added some lines.

[This message has been edited by Uncus (edited 12-29-2004).]

Okay, I read the article and I have several things I'd like to discuss. BUT, first, I'm going to smoke some reefer then come back down before I do that.

1. While the unified and philosophy-based Eastern religions ARE assimilating the dogmatic Western ideals into them, and the other way as well, I don't think the goal is to destroy the other religion and come out on top. Eastern religions are based greatly around the concept of all being one, something espoused by Jesus himself...this is something that allows western religions to be assimilated by the Eastern religions quite easily. The author of the article seems to view the logical course of action as a terrible happening (though understandably so, being as they are Orthodox X-tian), when it's nothing more than a convenience merger. There's no need for any of the Abe-based religions to exist, being as the philosophical religions cover every aspect of those AND go a step above it, into the realm of WHY. The Abraham-based religions ignore why anything other than basic human interaction occurs the way it does. With eastern religion's ability to not contradict scientific efforts, and to explain the 'why', it only makes sense that it would eventually eat up Christianity, Judaism, and Islam...especially as more and more people find no need to believe in a single supreme being.

2. "The liberal affirms that it can be improved and that we should devote ourselves to building a more humane society instead of pining to go to heaven." The author quoted a swami as saying this, but attempted to give it a negative connotation. The Bible, in Genesis, DEMANDS of men that they guide this world to greatness; now, what the hell does the author possibly find wrong with improving this world instead of pining for Heaven? Heaven is not the goal in Christianity, Christ is. One should not be pining for the rewards of salvation, but to be with their entire self (The Trinity and all other souls are all God). The goal of Christianity is unity, and it would be much easier (as far as I've seen) to reach the goal were this world improved. Does the author believe we should let this world go to shit and just pray for Heaven when we die? The Bible declares that no man is truly united if he lacks either faith OR good deeds. You cannot be at peace without one of the two; the author seems to shun any emphasis on good deeds.

Don't Christians participate in meditation, as well? I only read the first article (my eyes hurt from HL2, so I need to stop soon) but it seems like the guy is kind of closed-minded and, to be frank, slightly fundamentalist. He calls the Judaic and Muslim Gods "strange", and says they can't accept the Father without accepting the Son. Now, he handily dismisses all those 4000 some-odd years of Judaism where the Jews accepted The Father but not The Son. What about them? Oops, he loses.

Because Jews are hellspawn, remember? [/sarcasm]

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

Because Jews are hellspawn, remember? [/sarcasm]

Christians don't take this view AFAIK.

Talk for your self uncus. lol

The author certainly is not stupid, he is clearly capable of rational analysis.

Most people today who are so convinced they have the ultimate truth about our life and times are simply parroting what they have been conditioned to believe by their respective ideologies.

quote: And regardless of differences in views and opinions on that matter, was there a single soul in Europe or in America sometime in mid-XIX century who would believe that in 150 years those "ancient pagan delusions" would not only be live and well, but also busy "enlightening" our own Christian lands and peoples?? Yet this is precisely what has been going on for a number of decades now.

(from the second link)

[This message has been edited by Uncus (edited 12-31-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by madamwench:

Talk for your self uncus. lol

What are you talking about ?

He is not only capable of rational analysis, what he writes is very insightful. His observations seem very accurate to me.

quote:There is, however, much more to it. By the end of the XX century Nietzsche's Superman has degenerated (or rather naturally developed) into a scared, vulnerable, and dumb creature, a consumer of TV news and commercials, a respondent to opinion polls and impulse shopper — a "post-modern man." Likewise, the utopian excitement of the recent past has given way to the gloomy madhouse of "political correctness," militant mediocrity and reciprocal lawsuits recycling any social or personal encounter into cash... Nietzsche is surely spinning in his grave. What Fr. Seraphim coined subhumanity in the avant-guard art and philosophy [8] is now everywhere. Superman has plunged into subhumanity and does not feel great about himself any longer.

"Militant mediocrity" ! This is really good.

A bit long. Not really in the mood to read it. Maybe later.

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:

He is not only capable of rational analysis, what he writes is very insightful. His observations seem very accurate to me.

"Militant mediocrity" ! This is really good.



Back from a ski trip...yeah...I never expected missionaries to be that informed/insightful about popular culture myself. Especially FRIARS. Maybe he's like the hip Friar John with Robin Hood. A little tired though...Zzzzz....

quote:Originally posted by great_sage=heaven:

Maybe every/most revelations have been manipulated by satan? The vision of Constantine being a possible example.

This could explain why the religion contradicts itself by being an institution ,worshiping graven images and promoting war through history.

Maybe all Jesus meant is that we are all God's children, him no more than us. Perhaps Satan intervened quickly with the intent of contaminating Christ's vision, and has steered history since.

Then again I don't believe in satan, except as a metaphor or state of mind.



I thought about this myself in terms of different denominations of Christianity having different cultural and spiritual takes on the Bible. You would think that God would have only one church as to have no misunderstanding amongst one singular belief. Different religions I can understand, different denominations not really. But when I thought about it a little more, I thought about how corruption worked/s in an established church. I related it to the system of government in America, with checks and balances. Corruption in one monolithic church with no competition would be much worse than many denominations with different beliefs and cultural groups that fought it out, lessening the potential harm done. Naturally, the fighting over cultural practices is utterly pointless in the view of the Bible and is simply the product of human pride and greed. Jesus did away with many Jewish restrictions due to that, although during the Dark Ages that was taken to excess(such as not bathing, improper disposal of waste, not eating clean animals).