I've post this as a reply before, But I wanted to know what you guys think.

If we are suppost to try and be more like GOD which is suppost to be without sin. Why is GOD a wrathfull being? Isn't wrath one of the seven deadly sins? Also if it is a sin for us, then why isn't it a sin for GOD?

Since when was Catholocism the basis for all of Christianity? To my knowledge, Catholics are the one sect that have 'deadly sins'. After Jesus' death and revival, the one sin is denying God's salvation.

Don't christians and catholics pretty much read the same bible?

Both the Catholic Bible and the Greek Orthodox Bibles contain additional books from the standard Christian texts. Also, the Catholic Church gives equal weight to the teachings / dogma of the Church as to the scriptures.

Wrath is an emotion, which is not sinful in and of itself, but the sin content depends upon to motivations and mindset of the individual who is feeling the wrath. God is perfect, so He can be perfectly angry without sinning.

well that depends on what you consider a sin. if you out somewhere and saw an old person being mugged or beat up, and you had the ability to stop the mugger, but you didnt. instead you just stood by and watched, is that a sin? if so, then god is a sinner. because by definition, god is all powerful. so he definately has the power to stop pain and suffering, yet he does not. so that would mean he is sinning. that is if you believe that not preventing a sin is a sin in itself.

Is punishing a sin?

God is the judge of right and wrong. We can only do the best as we are able to see it

quote:Originally posted by chickenpoop:

well that depends on what you consider a sin. if you out somewhere and saw an old person being mugged or beat up, and you had the ability to stop the mugger, but you didnt. instead you just stood by and watched, is that a sin? if so, then god is a sinner. because by definition, god is all powerful. so he definately has the power to stop pain and suffering, yet he does not. so that would mean he is sinning. that is if you believe that not preventing a sin is a sin in itself.

Is it possible to prevent sin in a sinful world? Wouldn't the best course of action be to remove sin from the world entirely?

quote:Originally posted by cerebraldisorder:

Is it possible to prevent sin in a sinful world? Wouldn't the best course of action be to remove sin from the world entirely?

That would be the easiest way. The best way would be to stop sinning.

How can a sinner stop sinning? If a person is a sinner, isn't sin what they do by nature automatically?

God is by definition sinless. If God sinned then He would cease to be God. never have been God, and can never again be God. If God can't do it it is a logical impossibility.

Well, this is mostly related back to the age old philisophical question of whether or not God is omnipotent, all powerful, and/or perfect. Well, most christians believe he is all powerful, and some believe he is omnipotent. A small group of christian sects believe God is also absolutely perfect. Even less of the other religions believe God to be perfect, because if God was perfect then wouldn't he only do that which is perfect. So, how is creating humankind an action befitting a perfect being, because isn't the human race imperfect and weak as compared to God?

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

God is by definition sinless. If God sinned then He would cease to be God. never have been God, and can never again be God. If God can't do it it is a logical impossibility.

If GOD is all powerful then nothing is impossible for him to accomplish.

Supposedly he can see past present & future right? Then if he knows that one of his children he is sending to earth is going to be a mass murderer, then isn't that a sin in it's self? It would be the equivilent of me handing a gun to a suicidal person knowing they are going to kill themselves, and that I could have prevented it by not giving that person a gun?

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

If GOD is all powerful then nothing is impossible for him to accomplish.

Supposedly he can see past present & future right? Then if he knows that one of his children he is sending to earth is going to be a mass murderer, then isn't that a sin in it's self? It would be the equivilent of me handing a gun to a suicidal person knowing they are going to kill themselves, and that I could have prevented it by not giving that person a gun?



Except god isn't directly sending a person like that to earth. He created procreation(fucking) and genes. Those two together are sending that murderer to earth, not god.

According to Christianity, as a whole being, yes (But that's only because parts of god [being us humans and the fallen angels] are sinning). Though as the three well known incarnates of the Father, Son, and Spirit, no.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Except god isn't directly sending a person like that to earth. He created procreation(fucking) and genes. Those two together are sending that murderer to earth, not god.



Two people having sex can only create a physical form for a soul to inhabit. Humans don't creat souls. God does.



[This message has been edited by Nemisis (edited 01-08-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

Don't christians and catholics pretty much read the same bible?



[Oh...one of my pet peeves....defining people as 'christian' OR 'catholic'....UGH!!!!!!!

Yeah really, what's with that? Catholics and Protestants are BOTH Christians. (Christianity is the acceptance that JC was the perfect sacrifice to save humanity, and the acceptance of the Spirit into your body. Any other disputed dogma means NOTHING as to whether the group is Christian or not)

If I win Ten Million Dollars & buy a Beautiful 5 M house & a fleet of Wondrous cars & I tear down the house & smash all the Cars to smithereens with hammers?

If they're all paid for & I obey all local laws what have I done wrong?

If I got my demolishon permit for the house & I clean up all my trash?

They were all mine. All mine to do with as I saw fit.

Sure I could have done Good with those Funds & Possesions. My Choice. My Stuff.

From whom did you win it...?

You did not create it...you might have created your destruction of what you won though.

Well, God gave humans free will.

When God created humans, he did not create them as they are today, he created them as adam and eve in the garden of eden, he told them that they could not eat the forbidden fruit, they had free will, eve was tempted by the serpent who said they would not die if they sinned which was a lie, once they ate the fruit it caused death for them. It was them who made the decision to sin, so humans are imperfect, not God. However, the serpent is Satan, sin, so it was sin/Satan that caused them to eat the fruit, it was not entirely of their own accord.

That is the whole reason why people sin, and why the body soul and spirit are not immortal.

God gave Satan free will, and he used it to rebel against heaven. People have free will, and they have the choice to sin or not, God does not interrupt free will, if everybody followed God's word then heaven would be on earth.

Also, humans and spirits are not a part of God, God's creation is his creation but it is not a part of God, God is seperate from it.



[This message has been edited by shuu-returns (edited 01-08-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by shuu-returns:

However, the serpent is Satan, sin, so it was sin/Satan that caused them to eat the fruit, it was not entirely of their own accord.

That is the whole reason why people sin, and why the body soul and spirit are not immortal.

God gave Satan free will, and he used it to rebel against heaven. People have free will, and they have the choice to sin or not, God does not interrupt free will, if everybody followed God's word then heaven would be on earth.



How can you prove to me that your post was all "true"? If you can't provide any facts on god giving us free will, then how is any of that different form your personal opinions and beliefs? I could believe that the earth is hell, but that isn’t necessarily the truth. The whole Satan thing is just your opinion to me.

[This message has been edited by Aczar (edited 01-08-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:



Two people having sex can only create a physical form for a soul to inhabit. Humans don't creat souls. God does.



I'm not even talking about souls, because I don't believe in them. But just to play along. A soul does not murder, the physical person does. The soul isn't the mind, it is the essence. Humans, in essence, are not bad. Our minds and our physical actions can be bad, but our soul is not inherently bad.

Every logical argument is based on the presuppositions of the individual presenting the argument. No argument is ever completely proveable without at least some assumptions. What is logical or illogical to a given individual frequently is based on their specific assumptions.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I'm not even talking about souls, because I don't believe in them. But just to play along. A soul does not murder, the physical person does. The soul isn't the mind, it is the essence. Humans, in essence, are not bad. Our minds and our physical actions can be bad, but our soul is not inherently bad.

How can you say that our physical actions can be bad, but the soul is inherantly good? What makes it good? What is good?

If there is no absolute perfect authority, i.e. an unchanging standard, which we can compare and contrast our actions and motives with, how can we say something is 'good' or 'bad'?

Hmm....wrath....I suppose it is not the emotion that makes it either good or bad....but rather, what you do with it. What you create or destroy with the force of that emotion behind it.

The same might be said about love...

Is creation always good? Is destruction always bad?

If you destroy an old decrepit building in order to plant a garden, is that destruction bad? or good?

If you create a new retro-virus that is immune to all anti-biotics and kills millions of people, is that creation good? or bad?

How do we determine what is good or bad without a guideline?

[This message has been edited by cerebraldisorder (edited 01-08-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by cerebraldisorder:

How can you say that our physical actions can be bad, but the soul is inherantly good? What makes it good? What is good?

If there is no absolute perfect authority, i.e. an unchanging standard, which we can compare and contrast our actions and motives with, how can we say something is 'good' or 'bad'?

This is more subjective morality than a soul discussion. And like I already said, I don't believe in the soul.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Yeah really, what's with that? Catholics and Protestants are BOTH Christians. (Christianity is the acceptance that JC was the perfect sacrifice to save humanity, and the acceptance of the Spirit into your body. Any other disputed dogma means NOTHING as to whether the group is Christian or not)

I not trying put poeple into specific group if that's how it came out, Then I'm sorry.

The questions is for anyone who believes in the bible as a whole.

quote:Originally posted by shuu-returns:

Well, God gave humans free will.

When God created humans, he did not create them as they are today, he created them as adam and eve in the garden of eden, he told them that they could not eat the forbidden fruit, they had free will, eve was tempted by the serpent who said they would not die if they sinned which was a lie, once they ate the fruit it caused death for them. It was them who made the decision to sin, so humans are imperfect, not God. However, the serpent is Satan, sin, so it was sin/Satan that caused them to eat the fruit, it was not entirely of their own accord.

That is the whole reason why people sin, and why the body soul and spirit are not immortal.

God gave Satan free will, and he used it to rebel against heaven. People have free will, and they have the choice to sin or not, God does not interrupt free will, if everybody followed God's word then heaven would be on earth.

Also, humans and spirits are not a part of God, God's creation is his creation but it is not a part of God, God is seperate from it.





I think your missing the point shuu. Say I was GOD, and I'm going to send you here to earth shuu. I already know in advance everything you are ever going to do here. So If I send you anyway knowing the you "ARE" going to be a very evil person, then am I not partly at fault for the evil that you do? Considering the fact that I could have stopped any evil you did before you even started?

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I'm not even talking about souls, because I don't believe in them. But just to play along. A soul does not murder, the physical person does. The soul isn't the mind, it is the essence. Humans, in essence, are not bad. Our minds and our physical actions can be bad, but our soul is not inherently bad.

First up. I do believe we have a soul. Second a person's body is nothing more the a physical vehicle to move about in here on earth. The soul is the driver of the vehicle. So any evil deeds done were done by the soul that was in the body that did it.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

If GOD is all powerful then nothing is impossible for him to accomplish.



The illogical is still impossible to God. God can't create a square circle. End of debate.

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

The illogical is still impossible to God. God can't create a square circle. End of debate.

Then by your own arguement GOD isn't all powerfull.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

Then by your own arguement GOD isn't all powerfull.



First of all, powerful has only one "l". Second, have you never opened a book on philosophy, or even on logic?

Read Sense and Nonsense about God, this will hopefully explain to you why you can't even ask that question with any credibility.

Also check out: http://answers.org/apologetics/omnipotence.html

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/rock.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

http://www.existence-of-god.com/paradox-of-the-stone.html

http://www.courses.rochester.edu/wierenga/REL111/!omnip.html



Now please accept what I keep telling you. (And don't tell me that Descartes thought God can do the illogical, he also thought a load of weird crap that was proved wrong such as the cogito. Anyway if God can do the illogical you can't even begin to begin understanding the beginning of God, so why bother ask the question?)

Oh and re your original post: The Bible does not mention the 7 deadly sins anywhere, it is not a biblical concecpt. And wrathful also has one "l". And it wouldn't be a sin for God because, as I keep saying, God is by definition sinless.

EDIT: (From one of the sites I posted.)

I felt the need to whack in some Maimonides just to thoroughly destroy any lingering doubts you may have.

In the twelfth century Moses Maimonides wrote,

That which is impossible has a permanent and constant property, which is not the result of some agent, and cannot in any way change, and consequently we do not ascribe to God the power of doing what is impossible. No thinking man denies the truth of this maxim; none ignore [sic] it, but such as have no idea of Logic. ...[i]t is impossible that God should produce a being like Himself, or annihilate, corporify, or change himself. The power of God is not assumed to extend to any of these impossibilities.

[This message has been edited by Aphelion Corona (edited 01-09-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

First up. I do believe we have a soul. Second a person's body is nothing more the a physical vehicle to move about in here on earth. The soul is the driver of the vehicle. So any evil deeds done were done by the soul that was in the body that did it.



What makes you think the soul is that driving force behind people's actions?

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

First of all, powerful has only one "l". Second, have you never opened a book on philosophy, or even on logic?

Read Sense and Nonsense about God, this will hopefully explain to you why you can't even ask that question with any credibility.

Also check out: http://answers.org/apologetics/omnipotence.html

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/rock.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

http://www.existence-of-god.com/paradox-of-the-stone.html

http://www.courses.rochester.edu/wierenga/REL111/!omnip.html



Now please accept what I keep telling you. (And don't tell me that Descartes thought God can do the illogical, he also thought a load of weird crap that was proved wrong such as the cogito. Anyway if God can do the illogical you can't even begin to begin understanding the beginning of God, so why bother ask the question?)

Oh and re your original post: The Bible does not mention the 7 deadly sins anywhere, it is not a biblical concecpt. And wrathful also has one "l". And it wouldn't be a sin for God because, as I keep saying, God is by definition sinless.

Yeah I realized I had put 2 l's instead of one. Second I have read so many books on philosophy & religion over the years I can't remember the names of many of them now.

As far God benig sinless, well my opion hasn't changed. We on earth have to abide by laws. Our law says that if you give someone a weapon with the full knowledge that they will do intentional harm, you will be held accountable for it.

I see no difference in that and a being who already knows with 100% accuracey what a person will do from the moment they are born, should also accept responsiblity in allowing it to happen.

My girlfriend once said that we were screwed the minute God gave us free will.

I asked hows that? She said it's like this A woman is being raped and beaten, she's begging god to stop him, but nothing happens. After her death at the hands of her attacker, She asks God Why he didn't stop it from happening.

God replies, that would have interfered with free will. If I had taken away his free will, I would have had to take everyones free will. Kind of a sad thought huh?

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

What makes you think the soul is that driving force behind people's actions?

I grew up with a friend, who lived in a house that a very bad man had once lived in. This man's ghost could be seen from time to time in the home. He was a bad man in life, and he liked to torment people after he died as well. Before you ask. I actually seen the ghost with my own eyes.

The logical solution to this question is there is no god. Even if he did exist, yes he would be very sinful according to the old testament, and he made man which destroyed about 88 species.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!! WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN?

This is not a matter of opinion. GOD IS BY DEFINITION SINLESS.

If the God you are thinking about can sin, then he is not the philosophical concept of 'than which nothing greater can be conceived' to quote Aquinas.

And I highly doubt you have read as many books as you claim if this little bit of information has somehow passed you by.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

I've post this as a reply before, But I wanted to know what you guys think.

If we are suppost to try and be more like GOD which is suppost to be without sin. Why is GOD a wrathfull being? Isn't wrath one of the seven deadly sins? Also if it is a sin for us, then why isn't it a sin for GOD?

Man's wrath is propagated by PRIDE.

God's wrath is justified, in that His judgement is perfect, as is His will.

You cannot compare our human emotions to that of God.

Isaiah 55:9 - For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord.

What man thinks about God is many times quite different from what the truth is. What man does is to project his own ideas onto God. When God says through the Bible that there is a "wrath of God," man thinks of man's wrath and projects this onto God's behavior. But "the wrath of man works not the righteousness of God". James 1:20

The day of wrath is also called a day of trouble, of distress, of desolation, of darkness (Zephaniah 1:15 - That day will be a day of wrath, a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness

), and further called a day or hour of judgment (Joel 3:12 - "Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side

; Rev 14:7 - He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water; 18:8, 10).

God's wrath is the judgment on the society that Satan's influence has created on earth. It is the appointed day of righteous judgment (Acts 17:31 - 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead).

Paul calls the day of wrath, "the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God" (Romans 2:5 - 5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed). And, "the Lord: for he comes, for he comes to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness" (Psalms 96:13; 98:9; 1 Chronicles 16:33). "And in righteousness he does judge and make war" (Revelation 19:11).

Righteous wrath/righteous judgment does not include direct mass killing of inherently weak human beings by the all-powerful God as some accuse God of planning for the end of this age. Evil will be punished. But not in the manner projected by many.

God himself does not have the "freedom" to be wrathful towards man, as man thinks of wrath. God's "wrath" is not like man's wrath (James 1:20). God's wrath is to let the built-in laws of the universe deal with man's misbehavior (Psa 9:16). When man goes against God's built-in laws, they are in fact following the ways of destruction. And it is the ways of destruction that destroy man. The laws of God, in and of themselves, do not destroy. But when one goes against them, they are in fact following the way of death and destruction. There is actually a law of sin or a way of destruction (Rom 7:23, 25). And it is the following of this law of sin that destroys man.

Some verses in the Bible seem to say that fire comes from God, instead of from man/Satan's kingdom fighting against itself. Here is one of the verses in question:

"Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence, a fire shall devour before [immediately preceding; he comes to save mankind from that fire] him" (Psalms 50:3).



Now notice one mistranslation:

"And fire came down from God and devoured them" (Revelation 20:9).



Some translators thought they were clarifying this verse by saying the fire came from God, for they knew not about the super weapons of the latter days. But that phrase ('from God') is not in most old Greek texts of the New Testament. http://becomingone.org/pp/pp4.htm

The bottom line is that God is nothing like man. You should be careful not to give to God man's emotional attributes.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

Don't christians and catholics pretty much read the same bible?

No...

There are more books in the Catholic Bible.

quote:Originally posted by chickenpoop:

well that depends on what you consider a sin. if you out somewhere and saw an old person being mugged or beat up, and you had the ability to stop the mugger, but you didnt. instead you just stood by and watched, is that a sin? if so, then god is a sinner. because by definition, god is all powerful. so he definately has the power to stop pain and suffering, yet he does not. so that would mean he is sinning. that is if you believe that not preventing a sin is a sin in itself.

It depends on your motives for not helping.

If you were only thinking of yourself, then yes...that is a sin.

Not doing anything (in and of itself) is not a sin.

He has the power to stop pain and suffering, and He will. It's called the "Rapture".

Man chose, in the Garden of Eden, pain and suffering when he chose sin over God.

Pain and suffering is what has been reaped from the sinful seeds man has sewn.

It is impossible for God to sin, since sinning is evil, and He is complete good. He would have to go against Himself in order to sin.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Is punishing a sin?

I have a feeling this question was rhetorical, but just in case...

Answer: Depends on the type of punishment, and the reason for it.

If you were to murder a man for raping your daughter, you'd be sinning.

If you were to spank the same daughter for setting toilet paper on fire in her bathroom when she is just 6 years old, then you are not sinning.

quote:Originally posted by cerebraldisorder:

How can a sinner stop sinning? If a person is a sinner, isn't sin what they do by nature automatically?

Man cannot stop sinning. If he could, he would be perfect in God's eyes, and therefore likened to Jesus Christ.

It's not possible.

When the saved get to Heaven, they will no longer sin.

quote:Originally posted by outcast:



[Oh...one of my pet peeves....defining people as 'christian' OR 'catholic'....UGH!!!!!!!

Well, you can be a Christian Catholic, but the two terms are separate from one another.

Catholicism is a religion.

Christianity is the belief in God.

There is a clear distinction.

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

The illogical is still impossible to God. God can't create a square circle. End of debate.

He can create it, but He wouldn't, because He is a logical being.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

The logical solution to this question is there is no god. Even if he did exist, yes he would be very sinful according to the old testament, and he made man which destroyed about 88 species.

Wow...you are just...mind-boggling.

Have you ever tried to read the whole Bible ?

What you perceive to be "logic" is human folly.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, you can be a Christian Catholic, but the two terms are separate from one another.

Catholicism is a religion.

Christianity is the belief in God.

There is a clear distinction.



Now THAT is a statement that surprises me coming from you.



Christianity -

1. the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.

2. Christian beliefs or practices; Christian quality or character.

3. the state of being a Christian.

4. Christendom

Ramdom House College Dictionary

-------

Although I do have my own 'personal' definition as well.

[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 01-10-2005).]

So, are you saying you disagree, or agree ?

Perhaps it is better broken down this way:

Christian = Believer of Christ.

Christianity = The religion of those who believe in Christ.

I think Christianity ought to have another name, for the sole purpose of identifying the difference between the belief, and the religion.

Religion is man-made...Christ is God-made.

Salvation does not require religion.

Why did my answer surprise you, by the way ?

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 01-10-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!! WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN?

This is not a matter of opinion. GOD IS BY DEFINITION SINLESS.

If the God you are thinking about can sin, then he is not the philosophical concept of 'than which nothing greater can be conceived' to quote Aquinas.

And I highly doubt you have read as many books as you claim if this little bit of information has somehow passed you by.

The number of books one reads has nothing to do with it. You can read every book ever written and still have questions. To quote someone from the past doesn't make it truth.

Wasn't it St. Agustine that believed that women didn't possess a soul, and that's why in his mind women could be swayed easier by the devil than a man could.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

To quote someone from the past doesn't make it truth.

What is truth?



I have read a lot of people in these forums asking for "proof" or "evidence" or "facts" or "the truth". But what is the truth? How do we define what are statements that will be completely acceptable by everyone, regardless of their individual presuppositions?

[This message has been edited by cerebraldisorder (edited 01-10-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Man's wrath is propagated by PRIDE.

God's wrath is justified, in that His judgement is perfect, as is His will.

You cannot compare our human emotions to that of God.

When a human is too prideful that's a sin right? we don't know that God judgement is perfect. Look at the shape this world is in. Before you say God didn't make the earth this way we did. God could step in at anytime and fix the problems. Why continue to let things spiral out of control?

Why can't we compare our emotins to God's? Aren't we suppost to be made in his image, only on a smaller scale?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No...

There are more books in the Catholic Bible.

That seems to be one of the problems. too many different versions of the bible. I think there's like 26 different versions so far.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, you can be a Christian Catholic, but the two terms are separate from one another.

Catholicism is a religion.

Christianity is the belief in God.

There is a clear distinction.

I think there are alot of christians that would disagree with that deffinition. As they believe chritianity is a religion in it's self.

Again, I will say that it may better be broken down like this:

Christian = belief in Jesus Christ as savior.

Christianity = religion of those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Religion does not save you.

God saves you.

Religion is man-made, and salvation is God-made.

That is the only reason I insist on the difference between the two.

I have said before that I wish the "religion" of Christianity was named something else, so that there would be no confusion.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

When a human is too prideful that's a sin right? we don't know that God judgement is perfect. Look at the shape this world is in. Before you say God didn't make the earth this way we did. God could step in at anytime and fix the problems. Why continue to let things spiral out of control?

Why can't we compare our emotins to God's? Aren't we suppost to be made in his image, only on a smaller scale?



If you believe the Bible to be true, then you would know that God says His judgment is righteous and blameless.

That would equate to perfection.

If you don't believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God, then that is a different matter entirely.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

If you believe the Bible to be true, then you would know that God says His judgment is righteous and blameless.

That would equate to perfection.

If you don't believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God, then that is a different matter entirely.

I don't believe that the bible is the word of God. Nor do I believe in so called organized religions. I do believe in a powerful being that created all this though. I also believe we have a soul.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

So, are you saying you disagree, or agree ?

I'm saying I disagree...

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Perhaps it is better broken down this way:

Christian = Believer of Christ.

Christianity = The religion of those who believe in Christ.

Christian:

1. of or pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings.

2. of, pertaining go, or adhering to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

3.of or pertaining to Christians.

4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ, as in having a loving regard for other persons.

5. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; and adherent of Christianity.

6. a person wh exemplifies in his life the teaching of Christ.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I think Christianity ought to have another name, for the sole purpose of identifying the difference between the belief, and the religion.

Religion is man-made...Christ is God-made.

Salvation does not require religion.

Christianity today really seems overly concerned with not being defined as a 'religion'. But it is a religion, although you can call it whatever you like. It is a religion that, in some denominations also teaching what you have stated above. But if a denomination does not embrace that...it is still Christian...IMO.

I have noticed at the last bible study that I attended the teaching that Christianity is not a 'religion'...but a 'relationship'...etc. Call it what you will, but it is still a religion....one that includes relationship as an aspect of it. One that might include salvation as an aspect of it. [all that depends upon the denomination and the influences of those preceeding generations.]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Why did my answer surprise you, by the way ?

This....I'll pass on answering.....right now.

--------

Anyway...that's enough for now...





[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 01-10-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

I don't believe that the bible is the word of God. Nor do I believe in so called organized religions. I do believe in a powerful being that created all this though. I also believe we have a soul.





Well...I 'believe' in organized religions....you can't deny their existance. (just teasing, btw) http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

But I'm rather in agreement with you there. Scripture is writings regarding musing of man, god, and the relationship of things. All inspired works, yes, IMO.

Although...I'm unsure what a 'soul' is...unless it is 'pure energy'.

[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 01-10-2005).]

quote:Although...I'm unsure what a 'soul' is...unless it is 'pure energy'.

easy ..its a hellenistic myth that 3rd century christians adopted....(might have been 2nd century)

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 01-10-2005).]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam see God as a being who created the world and rules over the universe. God is usually held to have the properties of holiness (separate from sin and incorruptible), justness (fair, right, and true in all His judgements), sovereignty (unthwartable in His will), omnipotence (all-powerful), omniscience (all-knowing), omnibenevolence (all-loving), and omnipresence (all-present). -Wikipedia

The monotheistic philosophical definition of God states than He is without sin. End of debate.

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

Judaism, Christianity and Islam see God as a being who created the world and rules over the universe. God is usually held to have the properties of holiness (separate from sin and incorruptible), justness (fair, right, and true in all His judgements), sovereignty (unthwartable in His will), omnipotence (all-powerful), omniscience (all-knowing), omnibenevolence (all-loving), and omnipresence (all-present). -Wikipedia

The monotheistic philosophical definition of God states than He is without sin. End of debate.

Once again you quote someone else. which is is based on their opion.

Look, this is really going to have to stop.

This is the last thing I'm posting in this thread. I'm fed up of telling you that by definition God is a sinless being. If you think of a God that sins, it is not something which nothing is better than. As God is the sum of all perfections, God does not sin, because to sin would be an imperfection.

This has nothing to do with my subjective opinion, it is the objective definition of a philosophical God. This is not a subject of debate. End of fucking story.

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

Look, this is really going to have to stop.

This is the last thing I'm posting in this thread. I'm fed up of telling you that by definition God is a sinless being. If you think of a God that sins, it is not something which nothing is better than. As God is the sum of all perfections, God does not sin, because to sin would be an imperfection.

This has nothing to do with my subjective opinion, it is the objective definition of a philosophical God. This is not a subject of debate. End of fucking story.

Show me where in the cosmos God wrote a deffiniton about himself. We are the ones that make up deffinitons about god and other things. That doesn't make it the ironclad truth. If you don't want to debate this some more that's your right.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

Show me where in the cosmos God wrote a deffiniton about himself. We are the ones that make up deffinitons about god and other things. That doesn't make it the ironclad truth. If you don't want to debate this some more that's your right.



Fine fine you've tempted me, but this is the last time I swear http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Humans make definitions. The human definition of a supreme being is that which is greater than anything else in all positive attributes.

What God means to you or to anyone else is of no consequence.

1. God is the sum of all perfection.

2. The absence of sin is a perfection.

Therefore, God is absent of sin.

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

The human definition of a supreme being is that which is greater than anything else in all positive attributes.

Exactly which human being asended into heaven , and spoke directly to God to make sure all of his attributes are positive, or even if The Supreme Crator is a man?

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

Exactly which human being asended into heaven , and spoke directly to God to make sure all of his attributes are positive, or even if The Supreme Crator is a man?



This is the philosophical definition used when talking about theology. When philosophers talk about God, they mean this perfect being. You can't say what if this perfect being isn't perfect, because this is a contradiction. By definition when philosophers are talking about God they are talking about a supremely perfect being.

The supreme being does not have a sex as he has no body so cannot have sexual organs. I use the term he strictly because of convention.

Nemi,

Are you sinless? http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by ASH_shop_S-mart:

Nemi,

Are you sinless? http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Far from. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif) Though I'm not a God either. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

Far from. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif) Though I'm not a God either. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)



Hey, you should get MSN instant messenger. Hehe. Delicious.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Is punishing a sin?

Well, whats the difference between punishment and cruelty. Thats in the eyes of the beholder, as are most of such arbitrary things.

-mike

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

I'm not a God either.

Sucks for you. I'm Ra, egyptian god of the sun. Bow before me, fellas!

-mike

In the traditional sense (Judea-Christian), the devil is equated with evil, while “god” is good. He most obvious flaw in this theophany to me is the fact that not only are “good” and “evil” highly subjective, they are also by nature HUMAN.

As the Bible clearly states, “God is not a man” it then follows “can a man judge God?”

No of course he can't. It follows then that the Judea-Christian God is neither good nor evil, not by human standards at least. Perhaps God was “good” to make man while the serpent was also “good” to grant him sentience.