I know there are a lot of people who see the Bible as the word of God and all that jazz, but lately I've been thinking about something.

I recently saw on a Christian television network a show called "Give me an answer". The premise is: This Christian guy goes around a bunch of colleges and answers skeptics' questions. One question led to him saying that Heaven was perfect, no war, no suffering, ect.

It got me thinking that the bible is one big metaphor for an ideal life/world. "Heaven" is an ideal world free of "sin" where we all live peacefully, the happy family routine 100 fold. And "God" is a natural sense of a "greater good".

Admittedly I haven't gone through the Bible referencing anything yet, but I do remember one point in particular. In the Bible where Jesus says something along the lines of "No one comes to the Father but through me," perhaps what is meant is "Mankind will never bring the world into "Heaven" if they don't start changing their ways a bit," with him leading by example.

Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Kel (edited 01-09-2005).]

Religion is all about ways to live your life ideally. So it would make sense for holy books to tell you how to live your life(or use parables to do the same thing).

I take very few things from the bible in a literal sense. Very very few.

This is the scary part of Evangilism, all Holy Books are not meant to be taken literally, just like fables, they are used as moral guides for the masses. Obviously the bible is not meant to be taken literally, just take the story of Adam and Eve, anyone who actually believes that god made 1 man and then one woman, then the rest of the animal kingdom really scares the shit out of me, same deal with not believing the theory of evolution, or people who think the world is only like 5000 years old.

Should the Bible be taken literally ? http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c020.html

Can the Bible be taken Literally ? http://www.ldolphin.org/flank.html

An example ?

"In Daniel chapter two Nebuchadnezzar is given a dream in which he saw a symbolic statue of a man constructed of various metals. Obviously Nebuchadnezzar literally had a dream, and though the dream consisted of symbols (the statue and the various metals) those symbols did represent something literal.

In fact the context itself helps us with the literal interpretation of those symbols employed by God in the dream. Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar that God revealed to him what would take place "in the future" (2:29). And that the statue and its various metals represented literal, earthly political kingdoms yet to rise - starting with Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon (2:36-38). History and other Scriptures identify the other dominions: Medo-Persian (silver), Greece (bronze) and Rome (Iron) with its latter part mixed with clay (the ten toes, 2:42-43). The context itself reveals that the symbols reveal successive, literal, earthly, political kingdoms."

It was not the dream that is to be taken literally (it's a dream...you can if you want to, but it's not important), but the interpretation of it.

The Bible is chalk-full of images and word-pictures that represent real occurances, locations, and people. http://www.biblicist.org/bible/literal.htm

If you read it, and study the Hebrew laws, the geography, and the world's history, you will begin to see that every reference in the Bible pertains to something real.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

This is the scary part of Evangilism, all Holy Books are not meant to be taken literally, just like fables, they are used as moral guides for the masses. Obviously the bible is not meant to be taken literally, just take the story of Adam and Eve, anyone who actually believes that god made 1 man and then one woman, then the rest of the animal kingdom really scares the shit out of me, same deal with not believing the theory of evolution, or people who think the world is only like 5000 years old.

Take, for example, the Psalms. They are a collection of reverent poems.

They do not bear any literal relevance to our lives, other than to teach us what an admiring heart sounds like.

If you believe in God, then you believe He gave the world the Bible, so that we could understand Him, and His commandments.

If that is true, then what the Bible says is true...even the rendition of what happened during creation, and the events following it in the garden of Eden.

I don't see why these events are scary.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



I don't see why these events are scary.



They are scary because it makes me accountable for my own actions. It makes me wish I was a better person. It scares me because I realise I am not perfect and I never will be. It scares me because I don't know all the answers.

These are just a few of the reasons why it scares me.

"If you believe in God, then you believe He gave the world the Bible, so that we could understand Him, and His commandments." - That is really really not true, at all. There is one premise and 3 conclusions and the premise can have absolutely nothing to do with the conclusions. You need more premises.

"If you believe in a God who gave the world the Bible" would be a better premise to start.

Ever read Chaucer? The Cantebury Tales? The way I see it is The Cantebury Tales is written in Olde English several hundred years ago and even that is incredibly difficult to understand. The bible is a book supposedly written thousands of years ago in a very obscure, ancient, language and has been translated again and again.

Imagine if the Cantebury Tales had first been written in Hebrew, then translated into a couple other languages, and then Olde English. It would be near impossible to understand what anything really meant.

And that's pretty much what the bible is.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

r people who think the world is only like 5000 years old.

Yah that one just seems dumb to me. Someone told me that after a bit of thinking because it seemed dumb. I asked him if some stars are a billion light years away how come we can see them cause the light wouldnt have reached us yet. This was a guy who was old and not some dumbass kid he said that light didnt always have to move at the same speed I thought that was just fucking dumb.

QUOTE Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

They are scary because it makes me accountable for my own actions.

So you chose to disbelieve because of denial?

It makes me wish I was a better person.

Being a good person is not what saves us from our sins. No one can be good enough... one would need to be sinless in the eyes of God. The purpose of the Law (10 commandments) is to show us that we sin. That is why God sent His Son to live the perfect life for us, so that He could suffer our punishment.

(taken from The Answer Book):

"According to scripture, you need to realize[/b] that you are a sinner. If you do not realize you are a sinner, you will not recognized your need for a savior. The Bible says we "all haved sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23.

Furthermore, you must repent of your sins. Repentance is an old English word that describes a willingness to turn from our sin towards Jesus the Christ. It literally means a complete U-turn on the road of life-- a change of heart and a change of mind. It means that you are willing to follow Jesus and to receive Him as your Savior and Lord. Jesus said, "repent and believe the Good News" (Mark 1:15).

Finally, to demonstrate true belief means to be willing to receive. To truly recieve is to trust in and depend on Jesus Christ alone to be the Lord of our lives here and now and our Savior for all eternity. It takes more than knowledge (the devil knows about Jesus and trembles). It takes more than agreement that the knowledge we have is accurate (the devil agrees that Jesus is the Lord). What it takes is to trust in Jesus Christ alone for eternal life. The requirements for eternal life are not based on what [i]you can do but on what Jesus Christ has done. He stands ready to exchange His perfection for our imperfection."

John 5:24

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life

It scares me because I realise I am not perfect and I never will be. It scares me because I don't know all the answers.

none of us are perfect, in and of ourselves, but we can be perfect in God's eyes, because of Jesus.

Nor do any of us know all the answers. But to me, that is one of lifes pleasures.. an adventure to find answers. Often i find answers to questions that i didnt even know exist.

God Bless.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



An example ?

"In Daniel chapter two Nebuchadnezzar is given a dream in which he saw a symbolic statue of a man constructed of various metals. Obviously Nebuchadnezzar literally had a dream, and though the dream consisted of symbols (the statue and the various metals) those symbols did represent something literal.

In fact the context itself helps us with the literal interpretation of those symbols employed by God in the dream. Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar that God revealed to him what would take place "in the future" (2:29). And that the statue and its various metals represented literal, earthly political kingdoms yet to rise - starting with Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon (2:36-38). History and other Scriptures identify the other dominions: Medo-Persian (silver), Greece (bronze) and Rome (Iron) with its latter part mixed with clay (the ten toes, 2:42-43). The context itself reveals that the symbols reveal successive, literal, earthly, political kingdoms."

It was not the dream that is to be taken literally (it's a dream...you can if you want to, but it's not important), but the interpretation of it.

Thats an excellent example of why "literalism" is such a clumsy concept. Questions about its factuality and existential import are much more relevant.

In essence a "literal" understanding of the bible, at least the way it's thrown about today, is a relatively new development in christianity, and also in Judaism.

Don't let spin doctors con you with flawed logic.

Well, that is why logical "study" of the Bible is required. You can't just read it as you would a Men's Health magazine.

It's a spiritual book, provided to man by God. It ought not to be taken lightly.

There are millions of man-written books athat require logical interpretation in order to arrive at the intended conclusion.

I happen to think God used a lot of parables and word pictures in order to ensure the uncompromised translation of His word (intact) to all people.

As described in the account of Creation in Genesis, God created light first. And that means He could have created light all throughout what was to become the Universe, including what would be travelling from the stars out there to our small planet here. So light did not need to ever change speed, it was created in place and in motion.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

You can't just read it as you would a Men's Health magazine.



Im convinced mens hekth is a gay magizine...