this is all written off the top of my head so feel free to correct me...

i think that all religion simply springs from a natural human instinct to try and explain the unexplainably, and also stems from fear of death and what happens afterwards.

ruling classes then latched onto this fear and created religion as a way to keep the masses under control...for example, the bible in england was kept in latin for hundreds of years so that your average peasant couldn't see the contradictions therein.

jesus was a real man, however he was either insane, or extremely talented and a great public speaker.

the events of his life (the new testicle) are NOT eyewitness accounts, but were written years, perhaps decades after his death and are based on hearsay and word of mouth. chinese whispers.

anyone agree? share your thoughts people

p.s i raped jesus in the ass yesterday

In my opinion, you're retarded.

Yeah..you have to be pretty talented to pretend to make enough bread for 5,000 men (not including their women and children) from only 5 loaves.

You also have to be a pretty good public speaker to denounce the heresy of the Pharisee's, and still live for a couple of years afterward.

(looking at them directly in the eye alone was punishable by death, according to Hebrew law.)

It is fucking easy to turn 5 loaves of bread into a million loaves. If someone starts the story that you did it then you did. The story of that miracle is simply fueled by human ignorance and stupidity. Hell, even I could turn 5 loaves into enough to feed China - with a little help from a few people who want it to be truefor their own benefit.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Yeah..you have to be pretty talented to pretend to make enough bread for 5,000 men (not including their women and children) from only 5 loaves.

You also have to be a pretty good public speaker to denounce the heresy of the Pharisee's, and still live for a couple of years afterward.

(looking at them directly in the eye alone was punishable by death, according to Hebrew law.)

I think you either completely ignored or missed the points made in the first post.

I think christianity is/was a fad. It quickly went sour when it turned into a tool for money, land, and power. Now that people are beginning to see how corrupt it truly is, I think we will see a dramatic decline in christianity's popularity in the next few decades.

floyd the barber:

i think that all religion simply springs from a natural human instinct to try and explain the unexplainably, and also stems from fear of death and what happens afterwards.

ruling classes then latched onto this fear and created religion as a way to keep the masses under control...for example, the bible in england was kept in latin for hundreds of years so that your average peasant couldn't see the contradictions therein.

jesus was a real man, however he was either insane, or extremely talented and a great public speaker.

the events of his life (the new testicle) are NOT eyewitness accounts, but were written years, perhaps decades after his death and are based on hearsay and word of mouth. chinese whispers.

anyone agree? share your thoughts people

p.s i raped jesus in the ass yesterday

I think you're gay.

I think you're on the cast of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

I think you wax your chest and masturbate to Brad Pitt.

I think you wear a pink dress and ride a tricycle around elementary school playgrounds.

I think you shave your crotch to look like a heart and put personal ads in the paper looking for toothless men to blow you.

I think your pants get tight when you're watching a football game and someone says that the quarterback found a hole.

And I think your typing would seem more professional if your other hand was free to hold down the Shift key on your keyboard.

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

i think that all religion simply springs from a natural human instinct to try and explain the unexplainably, and also stems from fear of death and what happens afterwards.

ruling classes then latched onto this fear and created religion as a way to keep the masses under control...for example, the bible in england was kept in latin for hundreds of years so that your average peasant couldn't see the contradictions therein.

jesus was a real man, however he was either insane, or extremely talented and a great public speaker.

the events of his life (the new testicle) are NOT eyewitness accounts, but were written years, perhaps decades after his death and are based on hearsay and word of mouth. chinese whispers.

i think you've pretty well hit the nail on the head there.

good name by the way. long live nirvana.

also my theory on jesus' death: he never actually died. they took him down from the cross at three in the afternoon. he was given next to no time to die up there. the whole resurrection thing is ridiculous. he was never dead. just too badly beaten to get up for a few days.

well i don't want my typing to look proffesional you arsewipe

also i'm, thankfully, not american so i don't know or care what a quarterback going in a hole is. i think i've just undermined you and your redneck family's entire belief system so you're frantically swearing and trying to be cool to cope with it you arsehole.

thanks zurdo, yea nirvana are the best. hey i never thought of his 'death' like that. yea when he "died the second time" it was probably due to his injuries from the crucifixion

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

this is all written off the top of my head so feel free to correct me...

i think that all religion simply springs from a natural human instinct to try and explain the unexplainably, and also stems from fear of death and what happens afterwards.

ruling classes then latched onto this fear and created religion as a way to keep the masses under control...for example, the bible in england was kept in latin for hundreds of years so that your average peasant couldn't see the contradictions therein.

jesus was a real man, however he was either insane, or extremely talented and a great public speaker.

the events of his life (the new testicle) are NOT eyewitness accounts, but were written years, perhaps decades after his death and are based on hearsay and word of mouth. chinese whispers.

anyone agree? share your thoughts people

p.s i raped jesus in the ass yesterday

haha word!

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

well i don't want my typing to look proffesional you arsewipe

also i'm, thankfully, not american so i don't know or care what a quarterback going in a hole is. i think i've just undermined you and your redneck family's entire belief system so you're frantically swearing and trying to be cool to cope with it you arsehole.

thanks zurdo, yea nirvana are the best. hey i never thought of his 'death' like that. yea when he "died the second time" it was probably due to his injuries from the crucifixion

Most people are too smart to let a clinically retarded person undermine their system of beliefs. This is just an idiot's opinion, with no facts to back those opinions up.

It's obvious you aren't American, because your spelling/grammar is horrible.

Actually the standard ofspelling, punctuation and grammar here in Britain is better than that in the United States. In fact if i remember correctly, the spelling (etc) of people in the United States is among the worst in the world. I won't go on and get into a "my country is supreme and kicks your country's ass blablabla" stream of illogical shit <-- another way that you can tell i'm not American. Try putting forward a logical argument rather than calling me a retard.

Sorry about the double post but here's a website i just found that offers some evidence pertaining to some of the claims i made.

Also, what's wrong with having an opinion? I started this thread to see what people's opinions are and how they differ. i didn't mean to offend anyone or for this to turn into an argument.

cheers

When will veryone realize that Christ and his life are just an allegory for the mystical mushroom egodeath experience?

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

Actually the standard ofspelling, punctuation and grammar here in Britain is better than that in the United States. In fact if i remember correctly, the spelling (etc) of people in the United States is among the worst in the world. I won't go on and get into a "my country is supreme and kicks your country's ass blablabla" stream of illogical shit <-- another way that you can tell i'm not American. Try putting forward a logical argument rather than calling me a retard.

And the logic you used is where....????

You have done nothing in here to form any type of an arguement. If Grammar and spelling were up to check in Britain, then does it seem like you have never taken a grammar course in your life?

Type out a coherent, logical statement then maybe people would take what you say seriously.

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

Sorry about the double post but here's a website i just found that offers some evidence pertaining to some of the claims i made.

Also, what's wrong with having an opinion? I started this thread to see what people's opinions are and how they differ. i didn't mean to offend anyone or for this to turn into an argument.

cheers

I said that it is of my opinion that you are retarded. You're entitled to your opinion, I just happen to think that you are not well informed and that your opinion lacks merit and substance.

Ok fair enough. What are your opinions on christianity? Are you a christian? Just out of interest. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

floyd the barber:

well i don't want my typing to look proffesional you arsewipe

also i'm, thankfully, not american so i don't know or care what a quarterback going in a hole is. i think i've just undermined you and your redneck family's entire belief system so you're frantically swearing and trying to be cool to cope with it you arsehole.

First of all, the geographical location of my birth is incidental, and ultimately has no reflection on my intellect.

Second of all, I am far from a redneck in either geography (Middletown, New Jersey) or heritage (I live in a third generation Irish/Scandinavian family).

Third of all, I am far from a Christian, and could care less what you believe. However, if you're looking for reasons to defy Christianity, I whole-heartedly encourage your search for the correct ones that don't stem from an infantile "I-don't-wanna-go-to-church" impulse that apparently bloomed from Anglican mass.

Fourth of all, in spite of the pompous air with which you are braying, nothing you've said undermines anything, least of all a religion rooted in the minds of a solid third of the planet for two millennia.

Fifth of all, I don't understand why anyone, especially someone from as 'sophisticated' and 'intellectual' a socialist nightmare as Britain, would make a conscious effort to avoid the appearance of professionalism. Perhaps you could explain the logic therein.

Sixth of all, did you really expect people to take you seriously when you ended your post with "i raped jesus in the ass yesterday"?

zurdo:

Jesus was on the cross for seven hours. A Roman soldier pierced his side with a spear, and blood and water separated in his body - a clear sign that he was dead.

Dead Helmsman

Because religions other than Christianity acknowledge the existence of Christ.

Floyd the barber- you make good points but you should use correct grammar so when people read your post they will take it more seriously and won't say "wow he's dumb"

Digital- You believe that He turned 5 loaves into enough to feed 500 men, but really, if enough people believe something, the truth doesnt matter anymore. And when people figured this out years ago, they could have easily made up miraculous stories and gotten enough people to believe it or pretend to believe it so others would believe, because people are more willing to believe groups. This is what chaski was saying. i dont know whether or not it did or did not happen, im just pointing out a different view.

tyrant- you seem to think about gay men and their actions too much

Ironic regression to sixth grade humor for the sake of humiliation is apparently something you're not OK with... cool.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Jesus was on the cross for seven hours. A Roman soldier pierced his side with a spear, and blood and water separated in his body - a clear sign that he was dead.

seven hours isn't a long time. most who were crucified took days. i thought about the spear thing actually. maybe the soldier was blind.

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

Ok fair enough. What are your opinions on christianity? Are you a christian? Just out of interest. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I think christianity is a religion who have the right to practice what they believe. I don't agree with everything christians teach, but I respect their opinions.

No I'm not a christian.

seven hours isn't a long time. most who were crucified took days. i thought about the spear thing actually. maybe the soldier was blind.

Let's tag you to a pair of planks like a macabre Post-It note and see how long you can breathe (following two straight days of flamboyant flagellation and nutritional deprivation).

And the soldier being blind has dick to do with his blood and water separating, since he wasn't the one who recanted his story or wrote any of the gospels.

Right yes, maybe the raping ass thing was a little stupid lol. But yea, as I said I didn't want this to be an argument so i'm sorry for any offence I have caused. Anyway, i'm only 17, and i'll admit my grammar isn't the best in the world.

Here is a site people might find interesting. on Christmas day in Britain there was a program on Channel 4 called 'Who Wrote the Bible?'. I think the guy who wrote and presented the program was a Christian, so he didn't have a particularly biased agenda.

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/B/believeitornot/bible.html

That program confirmed a few of my views on the b=Bible and Christianity in general

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Let's tag you to a pair of planks like a macabre Post-It note and see how long you can breathe.

sounds like a plan

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

In my opinion, you're retarded.

Yeah, there's that. You have a forum where any nitwit who knows how to type, more or less, can post his or her half-baked ideas and you'll get this sort of thing.

Granted, the Bible is pretty much bullshit. What many people do not realize is that one does not have to swallow that nonsense to be a Christian, at least as defined by Merriam-Webster--one who professes to follow the teachings of Jesus.

For one thing, a lot of these teachings are not in the Bible, but in the Urantia Book. For another, raving fundies tend to be very picky about which of Jesus's teachings they follow.

well i think, that is, its my opinion that while christanity stemed from a sect of people fearing death, having these visions or hearing voices i.e. build an arc and load the animals on it..just leave off the unicorn i think hes gay...it really all stems from people seeing jesus as a man whose mother could have born child without conception, fast for fourty days in the mountains, and give great public speechs...oh yea and the whole 5 loafs to 500 thing too, im sure some folks loved that one. and hell who wouldnt take wine over water any day. and when i say christainity stems from this..what i mean is the wide acceptance of jesus and the lord and savior bla bla...

however lets not forget that this religion started out being practiced in caves and basements long before jesus was even dreamt up....hell what really happend to polythesium that was still widely accepted well after christainity came into play

the part about the bible being in latin COULD be as it was fore-stated, which makes perfectly good sense, which is why lawyers use their mumbojumbo becuase us simple fold dont know what the fuck theyre really saying...or it could just be because at the time the scholars saw latin as the "educated" tounge and was much easier for them to translate from/into other languages.

also let us not forget that in the begining, or when they became accepted by the current ruler of the time, and definently after Constantine, there was only one church, not catholic, protestant, mormon, baptist, on and on. just one... so what THIS paragraphs gettin to is this..How can one set rock founded religion shift into many others while keeping the same idol and same belife structure, and not ignore other parts and lose some belifes?

oh yea and that rap about the redneck americans, come on now children some peoples feelings might get hurt that way...we all know the truth america is the greatest country there ever was, until it falls apart or blows it self up and another rises up to take its place..could be canada..could be africa who knows

the horse has once again been beaten

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

seven hours isn't a long time. most who were crucified took days. i thought about the spear thing actually. maybe the soldier was blind.

Let's tag you to a pair of planks like a macabre Post-It note and see how long you can breathe (following two straight days of flamboyant flagellation and nutritional deprivation).

And the soldier being blind has dick to do with his blood and water separating, since he wasn't the one who recanted his story or wrote any of the gospels.

It is important to note that Jesus was a bag of meat by the time he was nailed to the cross. (Tyrant touched upon that, in case you missed it.)

Most criminals didn't get beaten within an inch of their life prior to being crucified, because Romans were the masters of torture (the greatest killers in history), and they knew it would last longer (3 days approx.) that way.

The slow, agonzing death was what appealed to them, not the death itself.

So, it is not so amazing that Jesus died within 7 hours of being crucified, since he was nearly dead anyway.

There is also that bothersome little fact that he was bearing the sins of the world, and had been abandoned by His holy father, God of the universe. ("Why have you forsaken me ?!")

A being to whom he was so spiritually entwined with that this alone could have caused heart ache great enough to kill him.

It is actually quite remarkable that he lived long enough to be crucified in the first place.

quote:Originally posted by Fuck:

I think you either completely ignored or missed the points made in the first post.

I think your screen name indicates that I ought not to care what you think about how I interpretted the first post.

By the way, ever heard of cynicism ?

quote:Originally posted by IndicaSativa:

I think christianity is/was a fad. It quickly went sour when it turned into a tool for money, land, and power. Now that people are beginning to see how corrupt it truly is, I think we will see a dramatic decline in christianity's popularity in the next few decades.

Are we talking about Catholicism again ?

*sighs*

By the way, MAN made God corrupt.

Religion has nothing to do with God. Religion is man's pride taking the reigns of something that was meant to be holy and pure...which we can never be outside of God.

There has been a revival in the Christian religion for about 10 years now.

Turn off NBC news, and start looking at the real world around you.

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

Actually the standard ofspelling, punctuation and grammar here in Britain is better than that in the United States. In fact if i remember correctly, the spelling (etc) of people in the United States is among the worst in the world. I won't go on and get into a "my country is supreme and kicks your country's ass blablabla" stream of illogical shit <-- another way that you can tell i'm not American. Try putting forward a logical argument rather than calling me a retard.

Then you are an even greater failure at it !

The very thing you claim you weren't going to do, is entirely the point of your post.

When you offer logic to respond to, I guarantee that you will receive it in return.

quote:Originally posted by megalomaniac:



Floyd the barber- you make good points but you should use correct grammar so when people read your post they will take it more seriously and won't say "wow he's dumb"

Digital- You believe that He turned 5 loaves into enough to feed 500 men, but really, if enough people believe something, the truth doesnt matter anymore. And when people figured this out years ago, they could have easily made up miraculous stories and gotten enough people to believe it or pretend to believe it so others would believe, because people are more willing to believe groups. This is what chaski was saying. i dont know whether or not it did or did not happen, im just pointing out a different view.

tyrant- you seem to think about gay men and their actions too much



Far more than 500...*lol*

I didn't just take the Bible's word on that one. There are other documented accounts of what happened that day.

Try and pick up an ancient Hebrew history book or two. You'll see.

quote:Originally posted by LeperMessiah:

well i think, that is, its my opinion

I love you.

Here's some explanations for things you mentioned:

it really all stems from people seeing jesus as a man whose mother could have born child without conception

Biblical authors could have added this to persuade people of his divinity. It's interesting that 2 of the gospels don't contain a birth account.

fast for fourty days in the mountains

Not altogether amazing, fasting doesn't necessarily mean no food.

the whole 5 loafs to 500 thing too, im sure some folks loved that one.

I've heard a pretty good historical-contextual explanation for this, I hope I can recount it correctly.....

Basically, back in that day, everyone did mineal labor. They'd be out all day, tending herds, or fishing, or whatnot. They used to wear these tunics or vests that had tons of little pockets on them. They'd fill those pockets with bread or dried fish to snack on during the day.

So when all these people gathered to hear Jesus speak, they had all this food on them. It was hot and the talking went on, people got hungry. But you know how people are, no one wanted to take out their food because no one wanted to be asked to share.

The message of this story is that when the one boy offered his food out, everyone finally accepted to take out their food and share with everyone else. So there was plenty of food for everyone. So it wasn't that Jesus physically multiplied 5 loaves into 500. It's that Jesus' life message teaches us to share and give all we have. So the boy's "5 loaves" he offered, became everyones 500.

I hope I got that across well.

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

Here is a site people might find interesting. on Christmas day in Britain there was a program on Channel 4 called 'Who Wrote the Bible?'. I think the guy who wrote and presented the program was a Christian, so he didn't have a particularly biased agenda.

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/B/believeitornot/bible.html

That program confirmed a few of my views on the b=Bible and Christianity in general

You show this link like it's some great revelation.

You could have asked any Catholic (that's right bitches, I said Catholic) theologist about the history of the authorship of the bible and he would have told you the same damn thing.

It's really not that scandalous. I could have told you that shit. "Mark", "Mathew", "Luke", and "John" wrote for specific audiences. Christ's sake, Digital or Xtreme would have said the same thing.

No one argues that the "books of moses" weren't written by moses. If you would actually take the time to read the bible instead of making baseless claims all the time, you'd know that Moses couldn't have written it because it accounts for his death.

Goddamnit, this just pisses me off. They are presenting these huge "revelations", which are actually fairly well known facts in the theological world as some huge conspiracy. Just because the general public, namely you, didn't take the fucking time to research themselves.

aTribeCalledSean

If I could recognize you out of a lineup full of pygmies, I'd walk right up to your pseudo-Vietnamese ass and buy you a beer for that one.

christ, i'm sorry i don't have a fucking degree in theology

quote:Originally posted by floyd the barber:

christ, i'm sorry i don't have a fucking degree in theology

Sometimes apologies just aren't good enough.

And Arms, I agree that a lot of the bible(most holy books in general) a little suspect. I mean with all the translations and translators who put their own spin on things are bound to be changed from the original.

BOW TO LEPERMESSIAH...chief in run on sentences and master dabater

p.s. i just read my earlier post which i dont really remember writing and which is why im not going to type drunk anymore

[This message has been edited by LeperMessiah (edited 01-13-2005).]

quote:Try and pick up an ancient Hebrew history book or two. You'll see.

No. I won't see. Can you understand what I was saying at all? i was not debating whether or not jesus multiplied loaves or how he did it, i was trying to help you think critically. "*lol*"

Seans translation makes sense and puts forth a message and a call for people to share and be good to one another, not that Jesus is some magical baker.