If god can't make a mistake,

and everything he does is perfection,

then god really has no free will.

Or maybe everything god has created seems perfect to some because there is nothing higher up or better to compare it to.

I, on the other hand think God made a huge mistake with humans... definatly not perfect

[This message has been edited by flatplat (edited 01-25-2005).]

Deep.

*yawn*

Cheers,

Lost

First, you are giving God human attributes.

Second, your statement leaves open the possibility that God Himself was created.

For Him, it's not "free will" or "mind control".

These words and parameters don't apply to Him...it is impossible to understand, which is why humans err so often by squeezing God into a box He will never fit in.

...humans err so often by squeezing God into a box He will never fit in.

It's not our fault God has a bread and wine kick... he should try Atkins.

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 01-25-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

...humans err so often by squeezing God into a box He will never fit in.

It's not our fault God has a bread and wine kick... he should try Atkins.



cute

Dude, that would make it "South Beach"...Atkins doesn't allow bread.

*grin*

Maybe if he replaced the bread with some beef jerky or something, maybe he'd slim a few inches, and he could fit into some more accessible, designer boxes.

He could've lost a few in Oh, God!, but he looked pretty slim in Dogma. I could fit a God like that into a standard magician's box, I think. He put a few more on in Bruce Almighty, so it might be a little more difficult for him to slim down when spring 2005 rolls around, but I have high hopes.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

He could've lost a few in Oh, God!, but he looked pretty slim in Dogma. I could fit a God like that into a standard magician's box, I think. He put a few more on in Bruce Almighty, so it might be a little more difficult for him to slim down when spring 2005 rolls around, but I have high hopes.

At least in Bruce Almighty He could talk to Jim. In Dogma, His voice killed people...

By the way, interesting how much difficulty that Jim had since he was not allowed to mess with free will, huh?

you cant not mess with free will. say a mother does cocaine. her baby is born addicted to crack. It wasnt his choice. there for he has lost his free choice.

Free choice is governened by laws, and morals. free choice implys that there are infinate options for every problem. All of are lives are a series of small choices that we never think about. how we walk, how out heart beats, what we do. id say that you have a choice but there is defenatly no free choiuce. we do what we must to survive.

The logic at the top of this thread presupposes that there is only one form of perfection. Is there, or is there several different forms?

I dont see why there is any problem with giving god human attributes because, as the bible says, we were made in his image. It should then work in reverse that he is similar to us and can be given similar (at least in some form) attributes.

Free will, as I understand it at least, just doesnt seem to exist, bar the anomaly state that is neither true nor false (as demonstrated in the sentence "This sentence is false."). The reasoning goes that if things have causes, then your decision is caused by something that is caused by something that is caused by something etc, and eventually you will come to a cause outside of your control, hence no free will. If things dont have causes, then they are random, including your decision, hence no free will.

DarkMage35:

The difference is that we were created from Earth, which holds the principle of Becoming. God, by virtue of being immaterial, is the principle of Being. Becoming changes; Being does not. God remains the same; humans do not.

God sets the bar for "perfection". Outside of Him, there is nothing to compare to.

You cannot give human attributes to God, because He is not human.

To assume what was meant when "made in His image" was written is fallacy.

Do you know which aspect of God that verse was referring to ? (spiritual, physical, or something else we don't even know about yet)

Christians don't, so feel free to enlighten me, if you can (seriously).

To answer your question, Digital_Savior, no.

I am only assuming what was meant by "made in his image" in as much as it seems to imply (to me at least) that some aspect of humanity has similarities to some corresponding aspect of god. It doesnt matter which aspect it was referring to, only that it refers to one or more aspects of humans that were made to be similar to god (barring some meaning aside from the literal for the moment (for all we know it could mean something entirely different)).

I was discussing free will with a friend of mine the other day, and we came up with the equation "no free will != no change" (from the reasoning about free will in my above post). From this, we concluded that "free will != change" or "free will = no change". Just something to think about.

An interesting thing to note is that there is no way that we can know about any reality, or anything else, outside of the mental. This is because all our "knowledge" of the world comes from mental experiences (seeing something, the sensation of touching something etc).

Stop thinking that God, if he exists, can be defined in any way by your pitifully small comprehension.

You amuse me, mksnowboarder; I would like to know your reasoning.

All the evidence Ive ever heard in my life about god all boils down to basically two options that make any sense. Either the universe is eternal, or there exists, or did exist at some point in the past, one or more gods. By god I mean any being existing in more spatial dimensions then the 3 that we exist in. This skepticism doesnt stop me from debating the bible with people though.

If you created a species in your own image as far as they're concerned everything you do is perfect because you are the only example of what they're supposed to be like.

*belch*

Cheers,

Lost