I know by recent replies that not many of you have a clear veiw of what "Satanism" is.

This is not a post to shift you from one side to another, just to inform you, and clear up your blurred vision of Satanism. I once believed that Satanists were evil, that they killed babies and drank blood, but then I researched, and awoke to my folly.

For starters, you should read over the Church Of Satan Info Pack, which is a PDF

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/cosinfopack.pdf

Now, I'll tell you what Satanism isn't just to get going.

Satanism is not devil worship

Satanism is not a teenage outcast shelter

(Although some teenagers may use it as one, the Church Of Satan repels such people who are looking for a "crutch" during their adolescent years, which is why one must be 18 years of age before becoming an actuall "member" of the church. The church even provides a guide for recognizing psuedosatanists)

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/PseudoS.html

Satanism is not directly connected to "Gothic Music"

Satanism is not a joke

Satanism is not a baby-killing cult

Satanism is not an anarchist bunch of rebelling individuals.

---------------------------------------------

Here are some links to vital Satanic elements. Keep in mind that I am going by Anton LeVey's Church Of Satan. Many things have been labeled Satanism, and the stereo-type of Satanism has been skewed and blurred by many opposing religous groups.

The Nine Satanic Statements:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/NineStatements.html

These statements prove that Satanists don't even believe in Satan, as an actualy entity. Satanists believe that Satan is a representation of Man's sexuality, power, and intellect. As paraphrased from the Info Pack.

"Satanists do not believe in God nor Satan, especially as two dueling entities"

Satanists are essentially atheistic

Now, the 11 Satanic Rules Of Earth:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Eleven.html

Now, when you read these, you have to take into account that Anton LeVey (Founder) was very much into acting the part. He shaved his head, played grim organ pieces, and just LOOKED the part of Satan. For instance, when he says in the 11th rule:

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

He does not mean literally, physically "Destroy" someone, as in kill him. He means simply give him what he deserves, yell at him, curse him, maybe even hit him if you feel as though he deserves it. These statements are not to be taken extremeley literally I feel.

Maybe some of this will clear up your skewed views of Satanism. It's not a blood hungry cult. They actually have legitimate views. Tons of people live like Satanists and don't even know it!

Life is the ultimate indulgence, and death the ultimate abstinence.

Just remember that LaVey loved to act the part, therefore incorporating some things into his writings that might "scare off" people with the "Bad Satanist" stereotype in their heads.

For lots more on their philosophy....

http://www.churchofsatan.com/

[EDIT]: This is only the tip of an "Iceburg" as one might say. Their philosophies go much deeper, and are very individualistic. If you are interested in gaining knowledge, pick up "The Satanic Bible" by LeVey for like 8 bucks. It's not really a bible, more like a "How-to" guide. It's straight and to the point, and will allow you grasp the real deal. Thats all..

grammar.



[This message has been edited by Krispy (edited 02-10-2005).]

All this proves is that I was right all along; Satanism is just an enormously embarrassing year-round Halloween party.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

All this proves is that I was right all along; Satanism is just an enormously embarrassing year-round Halloween party.

Sure, some people might treat it like one but when I talk about religion, I talke about CORE PHILOSOPHY.

Don't you get it? It's not what Satanists look like, what they do, what rituals they perform, how they decorate their webpages or how they speak.

It's how they think, what the CORE of their PHILOSOPHY is.

I'm saying throw away all the costume bullshit, the shaved heads, the ridiculous rituals, the grim speech, and you have a philosophy, a thought process.

Can you comprehend this or are you too dense?

Get over the visuals, the "things you heard" and get straight to the CORE. Think. I like their philosophy, not their rituals and costumes. That's what religions is, philosophy, culture has just tied its bullshit in with it.

[EDIT]: You obviously didn't read everything I linked to.

[This message has been edited by Krispy (edited 02-10-2005).]

The Church of Satan is a pestilent bitch to the the Modernists. If you want real "satanism" that doesn't refer to bullshit every sentence read The Satanic Bible by Anton Lavey. Im sure you can spare 7 dollars.

[This message has been edited by Lucifer-Steve (edited 02-10-2005).]

Isn't it kind of pointless to adhere to a belief system which condones individuality?

When I hear the ward Satanist. I don't really think alot about it being a religion within itself. I think of a Christian apossing religion. I believe satanism/develwarshipers, are accually apart of the Christian religion. If the information you aquired at thes websites is accurate I guess I was wrong all along. My problem with satanism is most uneducated people think that paganism and wicca are satanism accults. But anyone who matters Knows better.

Satanism seems like a clever word to market egoism with to me.

Krispy, thanks. I was going to post something like that as soon as I could find the spare time to, but it looks like you beat me to it.

Something else to think about: Satan, the hebrew word, means "one who questions" or "one who rebels", also "the adversary". The reason why satanism came into being as it is, with the name it has, is probably because of that meaning. Also because it involves rebellion. It shares similarities with christianity in name only, and is separate from devil worship, which is the actual opposing religion to christianity.

Charles Thunder, one doesnt really adhere to a belief system that condones individuality, it is more of being individual and finding a word to identify it. Same goes for anarchy.

From what I've read on Satanism, it is a philosophy based on promoting egoism and hedonism. Would this be a correct assessment on Satanism on the whole?

I'm not Satanist, but I would like to say one thing I really like about Satanism is that it's a completely made up religion and isn't making any apologies for it. So many religions out there are masquerading as the True Religion, when anyone with any intelligence knows none of them are any more divine than the others.

It isn't about what religion you follow, it's about what you do with it and what you get out of it.

And Satanism offers an array of - what I think - are very good values, morals, and philosophies.

But, that's just my opinion.

Cheers,

Lost

laveyanism... shouldn't even be called satanism but i guess they just use that to be anti-christian

They actually use the name Satanism BECAUSE of its taboo nature. Someone once asked:

"If you don't beleive in Satan, why use that name? People are going to hate it and reject it simply because of what its called"

LaVey refused to change the name just because of what others thought.

As for the promotion of Ego? Yes, they do promote the ego. They believe that the most important holidy for a Satanist is his birthday, the day that he/she came into existence. They don't want you to think you parade around declaring your importance just because you are a Satanist however, but yes, Ego is promoted.

quote:Originally posted by Fire7:

When I hear the ward Satanist. I don't really think alot about it being a religion within itself. I think of a Christian apossing religion. I believe satanism/develwarshipers, are accually apart of the Christian religion. If the information you aquired at thes websites is accurate I guess I was wrong all along. My problem with satanism is most uneducated people think that paganism and wicca are satanism accults. But anyone who matters Knows better.

The information is 100% correct as its straight from the Church Of Satan website, and written by its superiors. I'm glad you learned something from my effort.

quote:Originally posted by KikoSanchez:

From what I've read on Satanism, it is a philosophy based on promoting egoism and hedonism. Would this be a correct assessment on Satanism on the whole?

Question seconded; and if so, why differentiate it with the name "satanism" snce it's basically "objectivism"?

if its such a mature and sophisticated institution then why did they call it the 'church of Satan'.

...and im sure i read that marilyn manson is a part of it.

Promoting egoism? Yes, satanism promotes that. Hedonism? Yes and no. Hedonism can conflict with egoism; satanism promotes indulgence, but it doesnt specify what this indulgence is referring to. It means (I think) that you indulge in whatever it is that you want to indulge in, whether it be the pursuit of pleasure or not. It also means that you should not abstain from anything for arbitary reasons, that is, reasons that have nothing to do with your self interest.

As far as I know they called it the church of satan because of the rebellious, questioning and indulging qualities that the word represents.

quote:Originally posted by liquid:

...and im sure i read that marilyn manson is a part of it.

Yes, Marilyn Manson is a member of the Church of Satan, but he was writing his style/content of music long before he joined. So many people think that just because people like "Goth" music, they're Satanists, but their not. That is what I meant by "no direct connection". Satanism doesn't promote Gothic music.

[EDIT] quote:Originally posted by liquid:

if its such a mature and sophisticated institution then why did they call it the 'church of Satan'.

I don't quite understand this question. I never said they were "Mature" per say, they're about as "Mature" as any other religion although I don't think you can label any religion as "mature" or "immature"

But the The Church Of Satan is a rather generic and uncreative name if you ask me. Rather bland and to the point. They also like the taboo on the name.

[This message has been edited by Krispy (edited 02-11-2005).]

Krispy:

Don't you get it? It's not what Satanists look like, what they do, what rituals they perform, how they decorate their webpages or how they speak.

It's how they think, what the CORE of their PHILOSOPHY is.

[EDIT]: You obviously didn't read everything I linked to.

I own a copy of The Satanic Bible by LaVey. And I've read it. That - in addition to the links you posted - is what I base my observation on.

And what the fuck is the point of thinking anything if it doesn't directly affect what a person does? And if it's not about what a Satanist looks like, why do they go out of their way to dress up for trick-or-treating and perform phony 'rituals'? Why not just discard the unnecessary?

And one more thing: If it's only about what a person thinks, why add this to the website?

For registration: please send us $200 in U.S. funds (in check, money order, bank draught, or International Money Order drawn on a U.S. bank made out to Church of Satan, or you may pay via PayPal* which requires an additional $8.00 service charge—see below) along with your legal name and complete mailing address, plus the following statement, signed and dated by yourself:

Please enroll me as a Registered Member of The Church of Satan. I recognize that failure to practice the principles of the Church of Satan and/or engaging in illegal activity may result in termination of this membership.

Enclosed is $200.00 in US funds.

Send this to: Church of Satan, New York Contact, P.O. Box 499, Radio City Station,

New York, NY 10101-0499 U.S.A.

Real legitimate. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Krispy:

If it's only about what a person thinks, why add this to the website?

For registration: please send us $200 in U.S. funds (in check, money order, bank draught, or International Money Order drawn on a U.S. bank made out to Church of Satan, or you may pay via PayPal* which requires an additional $8.00 service charge—see below) along with your legal name and complete mailing address, plus the following statement, signed and dated by yourself:

Please enroll me as a Registered Member of The Church of Satan. I recognize that failure to practice the principles of the Church of Satan and/or engaging in illegal activity may result in termination of this membership.

Enclosed is $200.00 in US funds.

Send this to: Church of Satan, New York Contact, P.O. Box 499, Radio City Station,

New York, NY 10101-0499 U.S.A.

Real legitimate. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



LaVey CLEARLY states that the only thing to be a Satanist is to LIVE LIKE ONE. If, however, you would like to join a Grotto, or interact and participate in events and goups with other Satanists, you can join the church.

What does the Church do EVERY SINGLE WEEK? They ask you for money. Who tithes? 10% of your income, straight to the church. That is a HELL of a lot of money being sapped away.

The Church of Satan asks you for that 200 dollars, and that is the LAST time you will EVER be prompted to give money. They might accept donations, but they will never take an offering, set up an alms box, or request funding in ANY way. No religous organization can function without money. Its a fact in todays world.

You don't have to pay a cent to become a Satanist, just if you want to be included in their events, participate in services, festivals, groups, etc. It's a one time thing, it also helps younger kids from joining on teenage impulse, and going to school saying "I'm a real Satanist now!" Because nobdoy would spend 200 dollars unless they were serious and have considered it greatly.



[This message has been edited by Krispy (edited 02-11-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Krispy:

And what the fuck is the point of thinking anything if it doesn't directly affect what a person does? And if it's not about what a Satanist looks like, why do they go out of their way to dress up for trick-or-treating and perform phony 'rituals'? Why not just discard the unnecessary?



Why do Christians put on plays of Bible stories? Why do they wear shirts with crosses on them or put those fish on the back of their cars? Why do they wear Jesus loves you shirts and bumber stickers on their cars?

Are these things neccessary to their religion?



What Satanists belieive does effect what they do. The pursue their pleasures, be it fucking chicks and partying, or studying wildlift. They don't hold back their human tendencies and instincts for reasons such as "It's sinful". They beleive in being what is naturally embedded in you, not restraining from actions because they're wrong. They beleive that anything that you want to do is right.

I'm not a Christian. Try again.

1. Tithing is not mandatory to be a member of the church.

2. All those things, materialistic though they may be, are expressions and symbols of the aspects of the faith corresponding to the spiritual change that results in altered behavior. LaVey admitted that his costumes and rituals are for no other reason than show.

3. Bringing up what you perceive to be wrong in Christianity does not do anything to prove that Satanism is anything more than a miserable hoax.

Tyrant, since one person's idea of what they want to indulge in, what they want to wear, etc, is always going to be different from another's, it isnt about what they look like.

The unnecessary, as you put it, seems that way to you, and on a practical basis, it probably is unnecessary. However, that is what those people WANT to do. Indulgence in your desires. Rebellion. That is the underlying theme, the underlying philosophy. You think its unnecessary and dont want to participate? Fine; dont. Indulge in what you want to indulge in.

There cannot be any few symbols/expressions of the aspects of faith in satanism because a] indulgence takes a different form in everybody like I said in the first paragraph and b] satanism concentrates on life, not the afterlife; the supernatural, therefore faith doesnt really come into it.

Have you ever noticed, btw, that all the information required to be a satanist, that is, all details of their philosophy, are free to view on their website? You dont need to join to become a satanist. The church of satan, then, can be more viewed as an organisation to let people meet up with fellow satanists in their area and to carry out certain activities, mostly the unnecessary, as you put it. It certainly isnt the be all and end all about whether or not youre a satanist. The church of satan may well be a hoax, and if you think that, fine: dont join. It could be a hoax like every other website that asks for money to get stuff. I, for one, dont care. I am a satanist, but because I prefer not to affiliate myself with any organisation if I can help it I wont join.

One more thing to point out here. The church of satan as I understand it is the only church that refuses tax exempt status, and as such it requires more money then your average church of another religion to run itself.

What I don't get is why they need an organization. Organizations and social contracts are detrimental to ones ability to do what they feel like, which really means to follow their every whim. If you really wanted to truly create a religion dedicated to individual freedom, you wouldn't tell anyone about it.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

All this proves is that I was right all along; Satanism is just an enormously embarrassing year-round Halloween party.

yeap

...satan can suck my cock

quote:Originally posted by Krispy:

Why do Christians put on plays of Bible stories? Why do they wear shirts with crosses on them or put those fish on the back of their cars? Why do they wear Jesus loves you shirts and bumber stickers on their cars?

Are these things neccessary to their religion?



What Satanists belieive does effect what they do. The pursue their pleasures, be it fucking chicks and partying, or studying wildlift. They don't hold back their human tendencies and instincts for reasons such as "It's sinful". They beleive in being what is naturally embedded in you, not restraining from actions because they're wrong. They beleive that anything that you want to do is right.

Because idolatry runs through our veins.

It's the core of our existence.

We have to be walking poster children of what we "like".

Not supposed to.

I don't agree that wearing black make up and flipping off old people shows the world that you're a Satanist.

As a matter of fact, we dedicated our lives to integrating ourselves, undetected in our beliefs, into society.

We were breaking all sorts of laws, and we didn't want to attract attention to ourselves.

It's like having a red sport's car...cops are gonna be watching you, even if you are a good driver (because seriously...why would you buy a car like that, if you didn't have any intention of using it ?)

Stereotypes don't develop out of thin air.

I wasn't allowed to talk about what I was doing, let alone leave.

So, wearing pentagram rings, and globbing black eyeliner on wasn't something that I was willing to do.

It's not productive to the cause, and it certainly doesn't gain any credibility.

I think you're totally wrong in comparing those that wear Christian T-shirts, and those that portray themselves as "goth". (I'm not being hypocritical here...I am not saying it is cool for Christians to do that, either. I am saying that one does not say the same thing as the other, and I am not just referring to the differing belief system's behind the propoganda.)

Apples and oranges, my friend.

We''l just have to agree to disagree. I don't see how they are apples and oranges.

Hell, Christians and Satanists are apples and oranges but we can compare them can't we?

No, Christians and Satanists are apples and hot dogs.

I was saying that the reasoning behind wearing propoganda is very different for each group.

Most Christians are advertising...most "goths" are trying to get attention to feed their starving ego's.

See what I mean now ?

Yeah, I got you now.

Althought its funny, most people just ignore Goths because they're too afraid to talk to them. Sometimes I think they WANT to be ignored

Ah well, thanks.

[This message has been edited by Krispy (edited 02-13-2005).]

goths are just sad little fuckers with no friends.

quote:Originally posted by King Of All Cosmos:

...satan can suck my cock

why are their always idiots like you saying stupid shit in threads? should i go to every christian god thread and say fuck jesus? fucking idiot spammer

quote:Originally posted by neX:

why are their always idiots like you saying stupid shit in threads? should i go to every christian god thread and say fuck jesus? fucking idiot spammer

I dunno, does King make christian god threads trying to make people see what christianity really is.?

If so, then go say fuck jesus, but until then.

...satan can suck my cock.

Is it true that you have nude services?

Im a Christian har har har, you should be too Krispy http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Question seconded; and if so, why differentiate it with the name "satanism" snce it's basically "objectivism"?

Interesting point, Objectivism started in the 1950's, and Satanism was founded in 1966...

satanism is silly

satanism is too christian for me

satanism is part of esoterism?

satanism is for me

satanism is a neo

satanism is practiced in vatican

satanism is no longer a harmless game

satanism is redefining religion to some extent

satanism is part of esoterism? just a curious concern

satanism is an adaptation of the golden rule also known as he wiccan rede

satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh

satanism is anton lavey

satanism is against the worship of other gods

satanism is clearly not understood by the public

satanism is a religion of earthly pleasures

satanism is worship of the self

satanism is a religion of the flesh

satanism is what ever someone wants it to be

satanism is not a nice religion

satanism is a religion

satanism is not now

satanism is a very individual religion / philosophy of life

satanism is practiced

satanism is not well defined by anyone

satanism is in no way connected with animal mutilation or sacrifice or the abuse of children

satanism is rebellion

satanism is called "traditional satanism"

satanism is political rebellion

satanism is infecting our schools and enticing adolescents into destruction with false promises of power

satanism is serious enough to warrant many police departments around the nation training staff

satanism is merely a phase of "normal" adolescent rebellion

satanism is such a broad

satanism is not about an anthropomorphic deity to be worshiped

satanism is much different

satanism is nothing more than inverse christianity

satanism is just christianity in reverse

satanism is to become god

satanism is not a "devil worshipping

satanism is a product of christianity ? a revolt against christian principles and practice

satanism is that everyone is a free thinking individual

satanism is a quest involving serious personal danger

satanism is the worship of the self

satanism is public religion

satanism is the main alternative

satanism is one of the most misunderstood religions in the world

satanism is a highly individualistic philosophy

satanism is a product of christianity — a revolt against christian principles and practice

satanism is satanism not due to our worship of any deity

satanism is not for everybody

satanism is not what you think it is

satanism is the formalized religion based upon *the satanic bible* first published in 1969

satanism is not

satanism is a protest behavior that may or may not be connected with persons beyond the protester

satanism is growing in the united states is its frequent appearances in film

satanism is a legally recognized religion in the united states

satanism is not something you can sell to people or pick up off the street

satanism is all about

satanism is practiced in the vatican

satanism is not about harming animals or children

satanism is a religion/ philosophy/ belief system for the strong

satanism is

satanism is a life loving religion

satanism is a *type* of occultism

satanism is essentially a religion of the self

satanism is the sigil of baphomet

satanism is a *very* individualistic religion

satanism is regarded as one of society's "tabu

satanism is inappropriate for people who work with vulnerable teenagers

satanism is broader

satanism is the church of satan

satanism is visible and available

satanism is a root from christianity

satanism is off the atheist branch

satanism is most people's image of satanism

satanism is for understanding

satanism is just one of those many sources

satanism is self

If I knew where you lived, I would shove a dentist's drill into your solar plexus.

-*