alright, ive narrowed it down to more or less one thing that will get me to convert to catholocism, but first an intro to this reason:

i read Warrior Soul by chuck pfarrer, a former Navy SEAL and former atheist. in this memoir, he describes a time while in the Mid-East when a mortar pretty much landed right underneath him. thhis is where he said screw it to atheism and went back to being Catholic. now, a mortar has about a 3 meter blast radius-if my memory serves me correctly- and he saw serviving that as an act of divine intervenion.

now on to me...

i have always said that when God shows himself to me, ill get on my knees an convert, mostly because i knew that would never happen. but im on the verge of converting now, and im starting to think that him showing himself to me isnt what will have to happen. im thinking that something will have to happen to me like what happened to Pfarrer with the mortar- something totaly unexplainable that can only be chopped down to divine intervention-will make me head to confession.

i geuss what im saying is, has anyone had this feeling, and if so, or even if with a different feeliing, and then converted because of what you think is god interveining?

I'm right on the border of going back to catholisism(which I was raised on), but I still need to think about it.

I really really love the philosophy and morality that goes along with catholicism. If nothing else, just following the beatitudes and the 10 commandments is a great personal philosophy. I like the teachings and the people of the Church, the only turn off it the hierarchy. By committing yourself to the catholic church, you pretty much have to commit to the magistrate, and I don't know if I'm willing to do this.

I still have a lot of thinking to do on the subject.

Ahhh! divine intervention.

It happens, quite alot. Alot more than we could realize.

I have had a few experiences of something like that in my own life. Some that were unexplainable during early teenage life, when I never really cared for any religion, spirituality, or God. However, I did learn about why the things happened in the particular style and order, later in my life. The memories of such incidents came flooding back to me. Every event in life has a lesson to teach. Some we know, and some we learn the hard way. lol

However, these are just the things which God does for us, without us even asking. That is the Mercy and Compassion of God. There is so much more that God is willing to do for us, if we only just ask. Prayer is very precious, and worth more than all the riches which could ever be collected on this earth.

peace,

-[Soofi]



[This message has been edited by Soofi (edited 02-15-2005).]

You people are so full of it.

quote:Originally posted by unchewed_meat:

You people are so full of it.

Go fuck youself. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by unchewed_meat:

You people are so full of it.

We may be full of it, but I hope you are content with your existence. If you are, go rejoice, be happy.

Not fake happiness, not a cheapened version of it. These are just substitutes to fill a void that can only be filled with one thing. Love.

When you taste of that Love, you will be beyond posting in the above manner. The man who truly has that contentment and peace does not need to go around trying to bring others down to his level. On the contrary he will try to bring others up to his state of joy, and tranquility. He becomes a source of light, to fill the hearts of others.

It is not difficult to recognize either one of them qualities for what they are.

-[Soofi]

I'm in the process of converting to Catholicism. I was raised in a Protestant family and a few years ago, I got it in my head a had committed the unforgivable sin and that I was certainly going to hell...Well once I realized that that wasn't the case I was motivated to reach out. So I joined an Atheist Group on Yahoo.

In that group also trying to convert atheists was a Muslim. So eventually we started emailing eachother about our religions. This lasted several months and nothing has helped me develop and understand what and why I believe.

I was a Protestant when I started that argument. His attacks against Christianity forced me to look at Christianity and its history as well as Islam. And what I found is the truth of Catholicism.

So I think that whole thing was God's intervention in my life. And the same with every time I'm going through a rough period and something drags me through and teaches me something.

If you hear a call in your heart, you are blessed. Follow it, and if it leads you to christianity, judaism, muslim, or other, (as census forms say) go there. If there is no voice, but still joy, live with that. The desire to be called, which is what the first poster seems to have, if often the first interpretation of what you hear. The sign you are looking for may be more subtle than a mortar blast. It may be an intellectual love, as napoleon_complex seems to be experiencing, or an emotional one, as for Soofi. Either way, if you are experiencing a desire for deity in your life, go with it. It will enrich your life.

quote:

Orinally posted by Soofi:



We may be full of it, but I hope you are content with your existence. If you are, go rejoice, be happy.





I agree completely. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

As some of you know, I'm Buddhist. But I also believe that every religion on Earth (including Buddhism) is a figment of humanity's imagination, an attempt at describing something that is beyond understanding: the human experience.

None of the religions on Earth should be taken literally, because in my opinion, they never were meant to be taken literally.

Find a religion that defines your life, helps you live the way you want to, and when you find that, it doesn't matter if it's true or false, because it works for you.

Unfortunately, it does matter to some people if their religion is the One True Religion, and they spend a lot of time trying to prove it and make it all connect. I have done that, as well, until I realized it just doesn't matter. I can't explain why it doesn't matter, because you need to figure that part out for yourself. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by thumper:

alright, ive narrowed it down to more or less one thing that will get me to convert to catholocism, but first an intro to this reason:

i read Warrior Soul by chuck pfarrer, a former Navy SEAL and former atheist. in this memoir, he describes a time while in the Mid-East when a mortar pretty much landed right underneath him. thhis is where he said screw it to atheism and went back to being Catholic. now, a mortar has about a 3 meter blast radius-if my memory serves me correctly- and he saw serviving that as an act of divine intervenion.





Pure, random, chance; nothing more.



It's pretty obvious, that if there is a God, he doesn't interfere in the affairs of men.



Look up "Memes".

Here:

http://www.mwillett.org/Memes/meme1.htm

Ah yes, I was raised Catholic too.

But as of yet, there's nothing going on in my mind or life that make me want to go back to it. But I wish you good luck in your spiritual endeavor.

Wolf, how about I chuck a mortar beneath your chair and see how dry your pants are?

You have never experienced anything remotely close to God. Stop offering ill-informed criticism on those who have.

-*

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Wolf, how about I chuck a mortar beneath your chair and see how dry your pants are?

You have never experienced anything remotely close to God. Stop offering ill-informed criticism on those who have.

-*

Wow, how -exactly- is almost dying (while killing people for money, USA style) coming close to God?

It sounds like that seal who converted to catholicism was just trying to cover his ass; maybe he felt bad about all of the evil shit that navy seals do.

Guilt is the only reason I see that drives people to christianity. Read some Michel Foucault. He has a lot to say about fear and shame and how it manages to control us all.

Don't feel bad about being human or making mistakes (they are almost the same thing).

I suggest that you think about how a religious experience would feel without the ideas of christianity installed into Western culture.

The editors of the bible made sure that it protected their investments.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Wolf, how about I chuck a mortar beneath your chair and see how dry your pants are?

You have never experienced anything remotely close to God. Stop offering ill-informed criticism on those who have.

-*



You’re absolutely right, I haven’t experienced anything remotely close to God; hence the disbelief. I have, however, been in life threatening situations.



I can see how someone can attribute getting through a seemingly impossible situation, to God. That would still be anecdotal evidence.

If we were to ask why God chose to save this guy, rather than the self-less hero that throws himself on a grenade, to save his buddies, the reply is invariably: God works in mysterious ways. Indeed, he does.

this has picked up more than i had thought it would.

don't do it, catholisism is shit try a bit of daoism if thats not working try a bit of scientology and maybe some heavens gate add a dash of evangelical christianity and a sprinkle of german baptism simmer on the burning fires of hell for 5 hours

serves 6 billion

result: downfall of civilisation and the onset of a new dark age

superstition is superstition, it don't matter what 'ism' you are, you are human, contribute something worthwhile to the cause instead of farting around wasting your intelligence on religion

something weird happened to me the other day... it was flooding down here in southeast texas so i went out mudding in my jeep. well when i was mudding i was next to this ditch (full of muddy water).. and a fuckin deer ran out in front of me, so i swerved out of the way, and when i was straightening back out i lost all control, and the tail end started sliding towards the ditch. i felt myself start to roll backwards into the ditch, for some reason (divine intervention?) my dome lights flashed a few times, and it felt like some force just lifted my car out of the ditch. made me think..

Was it 4 Wheel Drive?

"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity" Albert Einstein

Basicly put, Buddism is the only religion that makes even the remotest amount of sense and while im not a buddist i find that i must agree. (Plus theres the fact that the smartest person that ive heard of thinks so.)

The Navy Seal guy most probabley only changed back to being Catholic becasue he was scared that he might die and go to hell. (Which goes to show how tuff your navy seals are. only jokin.) Oh and just wondering did he quit his job because i thought Catholics werent allowed to kill people?

Another thing that i find funny is that i was reading a piece on the places in Germany that voted for Hitler and the Nazi party (In history class) and most of the places were full of Catholics.

Oh and Soofi i have come to notice through your last couple of posts that you show a lot of information and other peoples ideas on things and you are all nice and such but i dont think once ive seen you express your own opinion, or emotion for that matter, plus theres that fact that all your anwsers seem like they were out of books, actual no it seems like you view your life and opinions as a book.... its kind of creepy. (No offense intended just my point of view.)

An atheist believing in divine interventi-

on seems like a Contradictio in Terminus

to me.

quote:Originally posted by unchewed_meat:

You people are so full of it.

I probably would have said that 6 months ago. But, all it took was one day, and everything changed.

Does the Catholicism have a monopoly on "divine intervension"?

You're sole basis of deciding on catholicism is purely arbitrariy. How can you know you shouldn't be practicing Judaism instead? Islam? Wicca? Polytheism? How do you know it wasn't Zeus that helped you, and not the Jude-Christian god? You don't.

Not only are these things explainable by Science, if not right now (which in the majority of cases it is), then in the future (e.g. thunder); but this argument is tatamount to Pascal's wager, in that you're arbirarily deciding on a religion, when in fact, there are an infinite amount of religions to choose from.

Similarly to Pascal's Wager, this argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Long live the pope.

I am in the same situation.

I think I am going to convert. It makes sense in the way they think you should live, sort of pure.

The heirachy is there for a reason, the more knowledgeable and 'holy (enlightend and affected by the teachings I guess...person with good tutition and judgement)'the person, the higher they will be. This is to ensure good teachings which many people will follow and live by.

Everything is debated in the vatican very carfeuly and thoroughly. If the church said 'no more smoking', it will be for good reasons.

If someone was a Muslim then it would make sense for it feel like a slap in the face from Allah, If someone was a Catholic then it would probably feel like a slap in the face from God. It wouldn't make sense for Allah to do that for a Christian when that would push them toward a Christian God.

Yeah, I was driving in my car in the country last week at night and I was coming to an intersection and when I got to the otherside I discovered there was a mud road so I hit that at about 70. The car was going back and forth off the rims, and was starting to flip...Allah wasn't trying to get me to convert, God was using that as a lesson not only to be a better driver but to take my faith seriously...I wouldn't have died in exactly good standing...That's when you get serious, when you know you'll be dead in 30 seconds.

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

If someone was a Muslim then it would make sense for it feel like a slap in the face from Allah, If someone was a Catholic then it would probably feel like a slap in the face from God. It wouldn't make sense for Allah to do that for a Christian when that would push them toward a Christian God.



1. He was an atheist, thus your point is moot. Why would a Catholic need to convert to Catholicism?

2. Are you claiming Allah doesn't want converts? If he does then there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't have been him.



quote:

Yeah, I was driving in my car in the country last week at night and I was coming to an intersection and when I got to the otherside I discovered there was a mud road so I hit that at about 70. The car was going back and forth off the rims, and was starting to flip...Allah wasn't trying to get me to convert, God was using that as a lesson not only to be a better driver but to take my faith seriously...I wouldn't have died in exactly good standing...That's when you get serious, when you know you'll be dead in 30 seconds.

Terrible logic. Not only did your story not show anything that would necessitate divine intervention, but you then use very poor logic to claim that it was the Christian god, when you have absolutely no way of knowing this.

quote:Originally posted by l337:



The heirachy is there for a reason, the more knowledgeable and 'holy (enlightend and affected by the teachings I guess...person with good tutition and judgement)'the person, the higher they will be. This is to ensure good teachings which many people will follow and live by.

Oh, how correct you are! If history teaches us something, it's the good teachings and judgements of the Popes.

You knew exactly what I meant, some one raised in those faiths.... I'm not going to argue with you because it is impossible..I see how you argue with people. And I'm not going to try to argue faith when you want to argue logic.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Does the Catholicism have a monopoly on "divine intervension"?

You're sole basis of deciding on catholicism is purely arbitrariy. How can you know you shouldn't be practicing Judaism instead? Islam? Wicca? Polytheism? How do you know it wasn't Zeus that helped you, and not the Jude-Christian god? You don't.

Not only are these things explainable by Science, if not right now (which in the majority of cases it is), then in the future (e.g. thunder); but this argument is tatamount to Pascal's wager, in that you're arbirarily deciding on a religion, when in fact, there are an infinite amount of religions to choose from.

Similarly to Pascal's Wager, this argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

how does sience explain a 30 meter radius mortar blast not toasting an irish guy?

1. You've yet to provide a quote from the book explaining what really happened. A quick search on google netted nothing about the author and his conversion, or about any specific mortar attack.

2. With this lack of information we don't know the type of mortar, how close he was to the mortar, where he was, what he was doing, whether he was injured or not. ALL of these are necessary to conclude anything.

3. Mortars mainly produce shrapnel. Depending on the above (i.e. the distance, what he was doing, etc.) it would certainly be possible to escape from a mortar attack unscathed.

This is further supported by the fact that infantry units are bombarded by mortars constantly during a war and the ratio of death per mortar is ridiculously low, hence why so many mortars are needed.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 02-17-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

You knew exactly what I meant, some one raised in those faiths...

Huh? I'm talking about the ORIGINAL POSTER. Not somebody else. The poster said he was an atheist. How the hell do you know he was raised "in those faiths"? You don't, tha'ts just an assumption on your part.

quote:

I'm not going to argue with you because it is impossible..I see how you argue with people. And I'm not going to try to argue faith when you want to argue logic.

Right. Let's not answer the question of why Allah wouldn't want new followers, regardless of what religion they were or weren't raised in.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 02-17-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Fai1safe:

"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity" Albert Einstein



That's an awesome quote. I can't believe I've never heard it, before.

quote:Originally posted by Soofi:

We may be full of it, but I hope you are content with your existence. If you are, go rejoice, be happy.

Not fake happiness, not a cheapened version of it. These are just substitutes to fill a void that can only be filled with one thing. Love.

When you taste of that Love, you will be beyond posting in the above manner. The man who truly has that contentment and peace does not need to go around trying to bring others down to his level. On the contrary he will try to bring others up to his state of joy, and tranquility. He becomes a source of light, to fill the hearts of others.

It is not difficult to recognize either one of them qualities for what they are.

-[Soofi]

I didn't read every post here, just the ones where people quoted me.

Content with my existence? Yeah, but that doesn't mean I dont think you guys are full of shit and stupidity.

Ever consider the mortar might have been dodgy? Ever think of another faith other than catholism, Christianity has about 7 major strains that I can think of alone. What you are basically saying is "I've had enough of feeling bitter, I'll go back to what my parents taught me." But it is your choise to make, but there are better religions out there than catolism, or you can believe in god without being in any of them.