Chrisianity is an easy answer, and an answer that is not working.

Victorian England already experienced the same conflicts I see today in rural Georgia. How so? Victorians were subjected to horrors of unregulated capitalism. Laissez Faire economics. England basically allowed industry to use children as young as six to work miserable, bone crushing jobs in order to modernize. People would indenture their kids to factories for money. In doing so, they generated a whole lot of literature that expressed doubts about christianity and the existence of God. I recently read that 70% of England today is either athiest or agnostic. I relate this to the shit that went down during Queen Victoria's rule.

So what am I rambling about?

Capitalism runs rampant today in America, but we no longer have to see the evil or even experience them. Right now their are factories around the globe full of children with no hope of -ever- achieving my standard of living, a standard that ensures I will always have a good buzz and a fat sack of fast food. For every pair of tennis shoes you buy, some kid gets his fingers sewn together (just being rhetorical).

The reason I hate christians, and I do hate Christians (including in some ways my deceased baptist minister grandfather) is because they are mentally and emotionally inferior beings.

How so?

They lie to themselves about the world. They absolve themselves from the guilt associated with America's RAPING of the third world economy. Actually, most christians probably have never considered who labors behind the scenes of American consumerism.

Christianity is an answer, but when you limit your view of the world to just staying in good with God, you let the bad people in the world stay in power. A self righteous opinion of what is right and wrong can only hinder humanity's progress. We need to communicate and resolve issues with faith in ourselves as a species, not faith in something obviously designed to keep us down.

Arguments against this anyone?



[This message has been edited by lifeispain (edited 02-15-2005).]

I'm shocked that no-one has answered. In reality though, this really belongs in Humanities, even though it deals with Christianity as the source.

I agree with the thought, but not on only focusing on Christianity. Really, ti can be said that any group that focuses solely on their own standing is only working for the end of everyone else. It is those whose fingers are trampled upon that eventually rise with knives in their eyes and overthrow the world, such as what happened in Russia. The problem cannot be solved through awareness and it cannot be absolved through small contribution. The problem's roots are intertwined with current civilization's world philosophy and the entire process would need retooling towards a more equally based and balanced system in order for anything to be accomplished in the long run. I agree, though. If the facts are flatly ignored for reasons or personal sheltering, then it is just as sickening as ignoring all of the numerous disease epidemics in Africa, such as AIDS and polio. We've taken many steps forward technologically but very few socially.

Considering the topic name, and the forum, that was supprisingly well thought out, and a pleasure to read.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

lifeispain, that's a piss-poor reason to hate christians. i've never heard of an atheistic charity outpost in any third world country. i agree with the sentiment that self-absorbed people who completely disregard the world's miseries are despicable, but you're singling out a small group out of a much larger one... like gorloche basically said, we could all be doing more... we should be doing more...

besides, what have you specifically done to alleviate suffering that would give you the authority to resent others so deeply?

And i single out a small group in a whole when i say Christians are nice good people.

And what have i done to alleviate suffering... Well nothing, but i havent added to the suffering and thats more than Christianity can say.

Whats the saying... oh yeah... Does the end justife the means?

bumppers

You say youve never helped the suffering... well have you ever bought clothes from nike adidas, rebock puma? if yes youve helped fund tgese sweat shops.

dont claim christians dont car beacuse they do, at least in my experance they do, christian aid?

the george muller foundation?

all charties dedacated to helping the poor...

Yes i have bought stuff from those brands before but i didnt directly have anything to do with the suffering and me not buying the stuff doesnt mean the suffering will stop. Plus were is your proof that they all use sweat shops.

And if your going to look at it indirectly than you could say that everytime you go on the net is adding to the suffering because of all the little kids that get tricked into shit on here and then their parents have to pay or all that child pornography crap thats been going on lately.

And i was looking a Christianity as a whole not at specifics. Yes thier are groups that give money to third world countrys and stuff. But do you notice on the adds how that the stuff only goes to christian people. Its just a new way to make more christians.

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

lifeispain, that's a piss-poor reason to hate christians. i've never heard of an atheistic charity outpost in any third world country. i agree with the sentiment that self-absorbed people who completely disregard the world's miseries are despicable, but you're singling out a small group out of a much larger one... like gorloche basically said, we could all be doing more... we should be doing more...

besides, what have you specifically done to alleviate suffering that would give you the authority to resent others so deeply?

There are definitely secular charities in the third world, I have searched and not found any specifically atheistic charities however.

I have all of the authority I need to resent Christianity. My authority comes from within, no church or bible needed.

I contend that Christians have no authority to go screwing with the ideologies of other cultures, but they sure as hell do that. They do it with money too, making it much worse than if missionaries offered their religion and nothing else.

As for what I have specifically done to alleviate suffering? Nothing.

My conscious suffers every day knowing my standard of living (I make and spend less than 10,000 a year, not counting the loans for school) forces me to buy sweatshop (WALMART) products.

I do make sure that everyone I know has at least thought about the moral implications of this capitalist war machine. It is all I can do; perhaps if I was sitting on three generations of wealth I could afford to lobby congress or run for federal office, but the government is pwned by the corporation.

the corporation - free from body and soul.

How I despise the burdens of awareness.

quote:Originally posted by Fai1safe:

Yes i have bought stuff from those brands before but i didnt directly have anything to do with the suffering and me not buying the stuff doesnt mean the suffering will stop. Plus were is your proof that they all use sweat shops.

And if your going to look at it indirectly than you could say that everytime you go on the net is adding to the suffering because of all the little kids that get tricked into shit on here and then their parents have to pay or all that child pornography crap thats been going on lately.





If you boycott there will be less need to produce so the ywont need to work

and claiminng i support peadophilla beacuse I go on the net is like apples and oranges my freind

Apples and oranges...

In the end christians on the whole do a good job at trying to make the world a better place

some fail misruably but what can be said...

?

quote:Originally posted by madamwench:



In the end christians on the whole do a good job at trying to make the world a better place

FOR THEMSELVES

quote:Originally posted by lifeispain:

Chrisianity is an easy answer, and an answer that is not working.

How so? I see christians everyday who live happy and fulfilling lives. They suffer and their faith gets them through those times. It's obviously a working answer for some people.

quote:Victorian England already experienced the same conflicts I see today in rural Georgia. How so? Victorians were subjected to horrors of unregulated capitalism. Laissez Faire economics. England basically allowed industry to use children as young as six to work miserable, bone crushing jobs in order to modernize. People would indenture their kids to factories for money. In doing so, they generated a whole lot of literature that expressed doubts about christianity and the existence of God. I recently read that 70% of England today is either athiest or agnostic. I relate this to the shit that went down during Queen Victoria's rule.

I'd like to see facts and actual evidence that Victorian working conditions led to rampant atheism and agnosticism in modern England.

quote:Capitalism runs rampant today in America, but we no longer have to see the evil or even experience them. Right now their are factories around the globe full of children with no hope of -ever- achieving my standard of living, a standard that ensures I will always have a good buzz and a fat sack of fast food. For every pair of tennis shoes you buy, some kid gets his fingers sewn together (just being rhetorical).

And this is new? There have always been the "have's" and the "have not's". This is not a development of capitalism, it is a facet of human nature. There have always been workers who suffer. This isn't a new development. Just because it happens in capitalist societies, it does not mean that it is seclusive to capitalist countries. Expoitation can, and has, happened under plenty of economic systems.

quote:The reason I hate christians, and I do hate Christians (including in some ways my deceased baptist minister grandfather) is because they are mentally and emotionally inferior beings.

They lie to themselves about the world. They absolve themselves from the guilt associated with America's RAPING of the third world economy. Actually, most christians probably have never considered who labors behind the scenes of American consumerism.

Yes because we all know that christians don't have huge, non-profit international charities just for assisting those in need. And those people are usually from Asia or Africa. Also, why are you making all these assumptions about the feelings of christians? You do realize that many christians are working to make the world a better place?

quote:Christianity is an answer, but when you limit your view of the world to just staying in good with God, you let the bad people in the world stay in power. A self righteous opinion of what is right and wrong can only hinder humanity's progress. We need to communicate and resolve issues with faith in ourselves as a species, not faith in something obviously designed to keep us down.

You're calling christians self-righteous even after you typed this rant on why christians are "mentally and emotionally inferior beings"? Man you're a hypocrite. You really haven't presented anything other than a biased opinion. You're not describing christians, you're describing humans. Christians are humans. The things you described are inherent within humans of all faiths and beliefs(even atheists and agnostics).

quote:Originally posted by lifeispain:

There are definitely secular charities in the third world, I have searched and not found any specifically atheistic charities however.

I have all of the authority I need to resent Christianity. My authority comes from within, no church or bible needed.

I contend that Christians have no authority to go screwing with the ideologies of other cultures, but they sure as hell do that. They do it with money too, making it much worse than if missionaries offered their religion and nothing else.

As for what I have specifically done to alleviate suffering? Nothing.

My conscious suffers every day knowing my standard of living (I make and spend less than 10,000 a year, not counting the loans for school) forces me to buy sweatshop (WALMART) products.

I do make sure that everyone I know has at least thought about the moral implications of this capitalist war machine. It is all I can do; perhaps if I was sitting on three generations of wealth I could afford to lobby congress or run for federal office, but the government is pwned by the corporation.

the corporation - free from body and soul.

How I despise the burdens of awareness.

oh woe is me, woe is me...

what a pussy.

Here's a charity without a religious agenda - Rotary!

You know... those guys that have practically eradicated polio?

Its true that they would be made up - at least around here, by Christians, Anglican probably, but religion is NOT part of their agenda, and I'm certain there would indeed be atheists in it.

lifeispain,ever heard of Christian Aid......

You fucktard.

Golden. You're on the road to conversion "l337"!

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

How so? I see christians everyday who live happy and fulfilling lives. They suffer and their faith gets them through those times. It's obviously a working answer for some people.

He's talking about globally.

quote:And this is new? There have always been the "have's" and the "have not's". This is not a development of capitalism, it is a facet of human nature. There have always been workers who suffer. This isn't a new development. Just because it happens in capitalist societies, it does not mean that it is seclusive to capitalist countries. Expoitation can, and has, happened under plenty of economic systems

1. Exploitation hasn't always existed. It is a creation of class divisions and thus of class-based societies.

2. What does it having exited for a long time, have to do with anything?

quote:Yes because we all know that christians don't have huge, non-profit international charities just for assisting those in need. And those people are usually from Asia or Africa. Also, why are you making all these assumptions about the feelings of christians? You do realize that many christians are working to make the world a better place?

He's saying that they are supporting capitalism, which exploits the world daily.

Yes, they may have charities, but at the same time they support Capitalism, which is what necessitates those charities for the Third World in the first place!

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

He's talking about globally.

He'd still be talking out of his ass.

quote:1. Exploitation hasn't always existed. It is a creation of class divisions and thus of class-based societies.

2. What does it having exited for a long time, have to do with anything?

What modern societies did not have exploitation as a feature of them? Them being around forever is why he shouldn't be shocked that exploitation exists. It's happened before, it's happening now, and it will happen again. Exploitation is a part of life.

quote:He's saying that they are supporting capitalism, which exploits the world daily.

Yes, they may have charities, but at the same time they support Capitalism, which is what necessitates those charities for the Third World in the first place!

Exploitation has happened under other economic systems. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't people in Russia, Cuba, and China exploited?

the ritch are ALWAYS going to exploit the poor, the message of jesus and the bible is that exploiting people is wrong. Now if you atend a bible beleving church as i do they help the poor and needy but as we all know there are people who only see kto exploit others even within the christin faith "Oral Roberts" for instanc, the greed of these few big name "leaders" dosent negatate the message of the Bible OR Jesus OR the christian church as a whole...

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

He'd still be talking out of his ass.

It's his opinion, not yours.

quote:What modern societies did not have exploitation as a feature of them? Them being around forever is why he shouldn't be shocked that exploitation exists. It's happened before, it's happening now, and it will happen again. Exploitation is a part of life.

1. Here you insert the quantifier "modern" to make it so that whatever example I give, you can say "Oh, I don't consider that modern", when in fact the original statement had nothing to do with "modern" or not.

2. So is murder. Does that mean a Christian should support murder? No. Hence his point still stands.

quote:Exploitation has happened under other economic systems. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't people in Russia, Cuba, and China exploited?

1. It is irrelevant if it has happend in other economic systems.

2. Depends on what your definition of exploitation is. If we base ourselves on the 'socialist defintion', then no.