The Christian people are the most depressing indivisuals in the wrold.

On one hand, you've got the modern day Christain; they know very little about the religion or its hidden meanings. Then on the other, the Christian Scholars. The scholars know the history of their religion, yet they don't care and continue to believe in it wholeheartedly.

I don't want to sound envious, but I'm sure I'll come off as being just that.

The scholars have studied Christian history, and they know that it was the Pagan Constantine who 'Evented' the religion. It was he who decided to venerate Christ as a holy indivisual, because up until that point in history (325 A.D.), everyone knew him as a man and a man only.

In a desperate attemtp to save his glorious Rome from being toppled by the wars being fought do to the rise of this seemingly viral, new religion. He incorporated hundreds of Pagan bleiefs into Christianity. This act was not only intelligent, but it allowed the pagans to worship in secret and to doop Christians into following pagan beliefs without ever knowing it.

It was originally on Saturday that Sabbath was honored. Constantine dooped the world into honoring Sabbath on Sunday, which was actually named for the Sun god, Sol (Roman name for Osiris).

Likewise, he made them follow many, many other pagan beliefs. Changing the birth date of Christ, into that of his coveted Sun god, Osiris; December 25. The story of Krishna was stolen and fitted to the life of Christ.

Up until 325 A.D., everyone was happy and aware of the FACT that Christ was simply a man; a man who was actually royalty but didn't get to take his throne. Still, a man none the less.

Logically one should be able to determine the cause for the religious wars, but Christians will argue and fight, teeth and nail, and say the reason is recorded and known. But their reasons are logically obsolete.

Later on, I will say more, but my question is, again, why don't you (Christians) care that these things and many others, ARE TRUE?

Why don't you care that the bible has been, and will be, constantly revised to fit the ideals of the PEOPLE who are in positions to negate and/or affirm what is being said in biblical tales?

My position is not for nor against the Christian religion. It's against the way people CHOOSE to percieve it and how the CHOOSE to let it effect/affect their lives and thusly those around them.

I could be wrong, but I think most of the members who frequent this forum already know this.

Cheers,

Lost

The only part that is wrong is the part where you say Constantine venerated the holiness of Jesus. Constantinemade it acceptable to be a christian, but Jesus was thought of by many to be holy long before the time of Constantine. Many people were followers of Jesus before Constantine, and many people thought of him to be more than "just a man".

Other than that, everything else looks good.

But up til then, many didn't think of him as the son of God, merely the messiah. (Messianic Jews of modern times are the closest things to true Christians you can find.)

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

But up til then, many didn't think of him as the son of God, merely the messiah. (Messianic Jews of modern times are the closest things to true Christians you can find.)

That's a bit of an understatement don't you think? The point is, he was still revered by many as holy. Constantine did not make Jesus holy. Christianity existed before the reign of Constantine. Constantine brought christianity to the forefront, but he didn't create it, or even influence it, he just made it popular.

quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:

The Christian people are the most depressing indivisuals in the wrold.

On one hand, you've got the modern day Christain; they know very little about the religion or its hidden meanings. Then on the other, the Christian Scholars. The scholars know the history of their religion, yet they don't care and continue to believe in it wholeheartedly.

I don't want to sound envious, but I'm sure I'll come off as being just that.

The scholars have studied Christian history, and they know that it was the Pagan Constantine who 'Evented' the religion. It was he who decided to venerate Christ as a holy indivisual, because up until that point in history (325 A.D.), everyone knew him as a man and a man only.

In a desperate attemtp to save his glorious Rome from being toppled by the wars being fought do to the rise of this seemingly viral, new religion. He incorporated hundreds of Pagan bleiefs into Christianity. This act was not only intelligent, but it allowed the pagans to worship in secret and to doop Christians into following pagan beliefs without ever knowing it.

It was originally on Saturday that Sabbath was honored. Constantine dooped the world into honoring Sabbath on Sunday, which was actually named for the Sun god, Sol (Roman name for Osiris).

Likewise, he made them follow many, many other pagan beliefs. Changing the birth date of Christ, into that of his coveted Sun god, Osiris; December 25. The story of Krishna was stolen and fitted to the life of Christ.

Up until 325 A.D., everyone was happy and aware of the FACT that Christ was simply a man; a man who was actually royalty but didn't get to take his throne. Still, a man none the less.

Logically one should be able to determine the cause for the religious wars, but Christians will argue and fight, teeth and nail, and say the reason is recorded and known. But their reasons are logically obsolete.

Later on, I will say more, but my question is, again, why don't you (Christians) care that these things and many others, ARE TRUE?

Why don't you care that the bible has been, and will be, constantly revised to fit the ideals of the PEOPLE who are in positions to negate and/or affirm what is being said in biblical tales?

My position is not for nor against the Christian religion. It's against the way people CHOOSE to percieve it and how the CHOOSE to let it effect/affect their lives and thusly those around them.

Yes I know Constintene or one of the other religious guys modelled most of the christian hollidays after the pagan ones, with the only exception being penticost and possibly easter although that could have been some type of pagan holliday. Why don't we celebrate the pagan holidays as they are and get rid of the made up hollidays? Thats not the point though look @ this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#List_of_popes evidence of christianity before 325.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I could be wrong, but I think most of the members who frequent this forum already know this.

Cheers,

Lost

Umm; That's sort of the point......

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

But up til then, many didn't think of him as the son of God, merely the messiah. (Messianic Jews of modern times are the closest things to true Christians you can find.)

Thank God! ^That's what I was trying to say. I think I love you.

Napolean: "or even influence it"

You really don't think Constantine influenced Christianity? He warped it from its Judaic roots into a nearly full on pagan bloodhound of a religion.

I am almost positive that most of the pagan influences in christianity, occurred before the time of Constantine. He brought the religion into the main stream, but he really didn't change much about.

Christianity existed for a long time before Constantine, so I am pretty sure that those pagan influences were already present within the relgion.

quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:

The scholars have studied Christian history, and they know that it was the Pagan Constantine who 'Evented' the religion. It was he who decided to venerate Christ as a holy indivisual, because up until that point in history (325 A.D.), everyone knew him as a man and a man only.

[/i]

You make it should like Constantine came up with the idea to make Jesus a divine being, which is not the case at all. In fact, the issue at Nicea was not Christ's divinity, but how Christ's divinty came around. Was it natural or was it earned?

Constantine was the Roman Emperor at the time, who decided to convert to Christianity after seeing a sign in the sky from "God" before a battle. After winning the battle, he assumed it was because of the Christian God, or so the story goes. Constantine had not studied the religion he converted to in any depth, and was ignorant of the scope of the deep theological issues that were debated at the First Council of Nicea (325 A.D.).

(I've basically just said what napoleon_complex said, but I'll go into greater detail)

Prior to the Council, there was a fierce theological battle going on in Egypt, Syria, and Asia Minor about the divinity of Jesus and the idea of the "Trinity".

This whole issue was brought up by Arius of Alexandia, who proposed that Jesus could not be equal to God, because Jesus said that his "Father" was "greater than he". In fact, he was not denying the divinity of Jesus, just saying that Jesus could not be equal to God. Arius' position was that Christ's divinty was not natural to him, that it was a gift or a reward. Jesus was a virtuous human being that had become divine.

Athanasius, Arius' opponant, claimed that Jesus was "of the same substance' (homoousion) as God, and therefore was naturally divine. "The Word become man in order that we could become divine."

Both sides had Biblical referances to support their claims.

Constantine convened the Council on May 20, 325, to solve the issue. There was no offical position on the issues, so no one was sure which side was completely right. But it appears very few of the bishops would have taken Athanasius' side, most would have taken a position in between Arius and Athanasius (fence sitters http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)). Due to political pressure, a hasty consensus was reached in favor of Athanasius' position (I'm not saying it was wrong, just reporting the facts), and Constantine approved it (he was after unity more than debate on the issues). Many were not satisfied with this decision (many believed that Athanasius' position was not Biblically supported), and the debate raged on for another 60 years.

[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 02-20-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

The only part that is wrong is the part where you say Constantine venerated the holiness of Jesus.

Not true.

quote:Constantinemade it acceptable to be a christian, but Jesus was thought of by many to be holy long before the time of Constantine.[quote]

[b]Also not true.

[quote]Many people were followers of Jesus before Constantine, and many people thought of him to be more than "just a man".

No one's negating whether or not Jesus had followers before the input of Constantine. Non one who knows what they're talking about would. Up until the input of Constantine, people thought of Jesus as a prophet, but they knew him to be a HUMAN prophet; nothing more.

The Divinity of Christ was added to his depiction by way of vote; as were many, many other things. Constantine created the Council of Nicaea to carryout the votes of what and what not to add to the depiction of Christ. Sadly, the vote to pass him off as a deity barely passed.

The depiction of Christ and his apostles were stolen from paganistic religious beliefs. The Last Supper, stolen from Viking myth; the story of Loki. The birth day of Jesus, as I've mentioned, was the birth day of Osiris. The story of Jesus, again, was mainly taken from the deity, Krishna. The depiction of Mary nurturing Jesus, from the well known depiction of Isis nurturing Horus.

And also, I believe you editted your post, because there was something you said about the religiosity of Constantine, I could be delusional. However, I'll add this anyway: Constantine was NOT a Christian. He was baptised against his will, when he was already dying and too weak to combat anyone.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I am almost positive that most of the pagan influences in christianity, occurred before the time of Constantine. He brought the religion into the main stream, but he really didn't change much about.

Christianity existed for a long time before Constantine, so I am pretty sure that those pagan influences were already present within the relgion.

[i]I'm sure you're wrong, you should REALLY read up on it. Most of what I and Hex have said is apart of DOCUMENTED history...

quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:



Thank God! ^That's what I was trying to say. I think I love you.

I love you because you agree with me, and validate what I have said by doing so.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 02-20-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:

I'm sure you're wrong, you should REALLY read up on it. Most of what I and Hex have said is apart of DOCUMENTED history...

So is the Bible, and the events that are recorded in it.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

[b] You make it should like Constantine came up with the idea to make Jesus a divine being, which is not the case at all. In fact, the issue at Nicea was not Christ's divinity, but how Christ's divinty came around. Was it natural or was it earned?

You should SERIOUSLY do some research and think logically about what you've read, and also, you should abandon ANY and ALL judgements about what you're reading, whether it be in favor of, or against what you've learned.

Constantine was the Roman Emperor at the time, who decided to convert to Christianity after seeing a sign in the sky from "God" before a battle.[/quote]

A HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!.... o, you weren't kidding were you? Sad......

I've already adressed pretty much everything you've said, so I'm gonna move on.

I really don't think you've addressed everything I've said.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

So is the Bible, and the events that are recorded in it.

Yeah, what's your point? Do you even have one, or did you decide to say something for the sake of saying it, and because you think that the person you chose to speak to is against your religion?

Unlike what I've said, the bible and many of its aspects have been proven serverely flawed and/or false numerous times. People who don't think for themselves are depressing.

You're, Saddening....And lame, try again. http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif)

Just because YOU didn't get it doesn't mean it was lame.

It was the most simplistic way I could say that you are a hypocrite.

Don't try and play innocent now !

You have posted plenty of thoughts and opinions on Totse which attempt to refute God, or at least the Bible.

My statement was both pertinent, and effectual.

If you can say that your documented history of Constantine proves your point, then Christians can say that the documented history of the world as the Bible gives it proves our point as well.

Again, all I was saying is: don't be a hypocrite.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

[B]Just because YOU didn't get it doesn't mean it was lame.

I never said that I didn't get 'it', in fact, I responded to 'it'. Like I said b4, the shit was/is lame, end of story.

I won't even respond to the rest of your post. You obviously missed my simplstic response to what 'it' was. You sling words around without any merrit for their use, that's pathetic and you are lame.

Again, saddening and lame.... Forshame! :0

You won't reply when cornered...how unique !

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

You won't reply when cornered...how unique !

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

If you can say that your documented history of Constantine proves your point, then Christians can say that the documented history of the world as the Bible gives it proves our point as well.

quote:Originally posted by The Great Metalligod:

UNLIKE WHAT I'VE SAID, THE BIBLE AND MANY OF ITS ASPECTS HAVE BEEN PROVEN SEVERELY FLAWED AND/OR FALSE NUMEROUS TIMES.

You are stupid, End of Story. Like I fucking said, I had already responded to your lame response. Don't take your ignorance out on me.

-Die in flames lying bastard http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif)

[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 02-20-2005).]

5

4

3

2

1

Wow, no response, I guess it's safe to say...

CaNN3d

quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:

No one's negating whether or not Jesus had followers before the input of Constantine. Non one who knows what they're talking about would. Up until the input of Constantine, people thought of Jesus as a prophet, but they knew him to be a HUMAN prophet; nothing more.

The Divinity of Christ was added to his depiction by way of vote; as were many, many other things. Constantine created the Council of Nicaea to carryout the votes of what and what not to add to the depiction of Christ. Sadly, the vote to pass him off as a deity barely passed.

The depiction of Christ and his apostles were stolen from paganistic religious beliefs. The Last Supper, stolen from Viking myth; the story of Loki. The birth day of Jesus, as I've mentioned, was the birth day of Osiris. The story of Jesus, again, was mainly taken from the deity, Krishna. The depiction of Mary nurturing Jesus, from the well known depiction of Isis nurturing Horus.

And also, I believe you editted your post, because there was something you said about the religiosity of Constantine, I could be delusional. However, I'll add this anyway: Constantine was NOT a Christian. He was baptised against his will, when he was already dying and too weak to combat anyone.[/B]

I'm not denying that there aren't pagan influences in christianity, I'm just saying that they came before Constantine. Constantine was not as influential as you make him out to be.

People did worship god as their savior before Constantine, which makes it untrue that Constantine made Jesus holy. Many people thought Jesus was their messiah and was God's son before. There were many many christians before Constantine's time, and they all believed that Jesus was god. Constantine's vote sort of made his divinity "official", but many people thought of Jesus as divine before that. Jesus being Divine is not a creation made by Constantine.

I also did not edit my post, because if I did, there would be that edit information.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I also did not edit my post, because if I did, there would be that edit information.

I know, I was being facetious, I know and understand that such things aren't always detected in this form of communication, it allows for only limited responses. It's just a miscommunication, ignore it.

I think we can all agree that Constantine, the upcoming movie starring Keanu Reeves, will instantly turn all 14 year old kids into bible scholars.

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:

I think we can all agree that Constantine, the upcoming movie starring Keanu Reeves, will instantly turn all 14 year old kids into bible scholars.

Lol. Last year, when I heard about the name of this movie I got really pissed off. I said I wouldn't go see it if it has any affiliation to the real Constantine, because he was a pagan, NOT Christian.

I could see from the moment the name of this movie was known to the public, that people who don't already know who Constanntine was would think otherwise and that this movie would give people a false impression of who/what he was. I can already see that people will associate any, and all things they learn about the real Constantine to this movie in some fashion.

Metalligod, read some Dan Brown, did ya? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Well, at least his fantasies are based on true historic events. Better than basing true historic events on fantasies.

quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:

5

4

3

2

1

Wow, no response, I guess it's safe to say...

CaNN3d

*LOL*

Apparently, you don't have a life. I have children to tend to. I can't live on this thing all day.

A lack of response does not constitute defeat, though I think you have completely misinterpretted this forum as a proverbial pissing contest, instead of what it is: a quest to understand.

The only one here wearing their Red Badge of Ignorance is you.

Metalligod - quote:And also, I believe you editted your post, because there was something you said about the religiosity of Constantine, I could be delusional. However, I'll add this anyway: Constantine was NOT a Christian. He was baptised against his will, when he was already dying and too weak to combat anyone.

Napoleon – quote:I also did not edit my post, because if I did, there would be that edit information.

Metalligod – quote:I know, I was being facetious, I know and understand that such things aren't always detected in this form of communication, it allows for only limited responses. It's just a miscommunication, ignore it.

What a liar.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 02-21-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

*LOL*

Apparently, you don't have a life. I have children to tend to. I can't go one day without giving a minor a blowjob.

A lack of response does not constitute defeat, though I think you have completely misinterpretted this forum as a proverbial pissing contest, instead of what it is: a quest to understand.

The only one here wearing their Red Badge of Queerness is me.

I come to this site every two or 3 days, then after those days I don't come back to this site until a week or so later.

I've been coming more because I made a thread. Only an asshole makes a thread then does not show up to give courtesy to those who've contributed to the thread.

Anyway, you weren't taking care of you family, because you've made sevberal posts since I'd the one you quoted. as a matter of fact, you posted only a matter of minutes after I responded to you, only oyu did it in another thread.

So don't get all high and mighty and pretend you weren't online, lead alone on this site.

Bitch I'm infinitely more intelligent than you'll EVER be, I'm only 17, and I've accomplished a lot, I make VERY little leisure time for myself, so Totse is a bimonthly venture. And anyway, I use Totse as a learning tool, when I'm on here I make it my lot to learn.

I'm curious, did you finish college? No, what, did you even go? I doubt it.

Sorry, asshole, try again. You fucking looser. Ovvn3d

-Die Slowly

Another thing, you baited me into a response, and I took it.

Don't start your bitchin because you only got what you asked for...

-10 thumbs down, you're a lame looser. The world could do without you.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Gavior:

What a liar.

*laughs again*

Your age was obvious, long before you admitted to it.

My intelligence has nothing to do with my purpose here.

I stand corrected. You make yourself look like an ass BIMONTHLY.

Though I must be honest and say that I truly did not see the response you posted in question until today (which is when I responded).

You have no way of proving otherwise, and have just shown (once again) your infinite ability of being presumptuous.

As far as I am concerned, this conversation is over.

You have nothing to add of any value...and I don't suspect that will change.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior: *LOL*

Apparently, you don't have a life. I have children to tend to. I can't live on this thing all day.

Proof of otherwise:

NO ONE WITH A LIFE HAS TIME FOR THIS... (http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/003625.html)

To boot: You're a fag, you've never known sexual exploration with a woman.

You're a haBITCHUALliar.

see also, habitual.

You've yet to contribute anything worth while, and you've gone out of your way to prove you're a stressed-out Queen, who knows very little about honesty, life, religious history, and/or intelligence. Furthermore, you have yet to exhibit, any and/or all of those characteristics, on top of that.

I've grown bored of you, so this is my last and final attemp to prove that you own an iota of intelligence. Quite frankly, that quest was/is now and forever, futile.

-Die dick-breath, God hates you...

Pffft !

I am a woman.

Shows how much YOU pay attention.

Oh, and if you notice, I said that I DIDN'T WRITE THAT post you referenced, so it didn't take me any time at all to post that.

Pay attention.