The problem I have with people who claim they are atheists is that they aren't really atheists at all. For most 'atheists' i've met, it seems to be more a of a teen-rebellion phase, than a lifetime spiritual commitment; like, they are only claiming atheism because their parents are forcing christianity upon them. Chances are, when they get older or their lives are in danger, they'll go begging to their god for forgiveness.

Atheism, in my humble opinion, is a spiritual commitment, not something to be taken lightly.

very controversial notion there... a lot of people will argue that atheism is incompatible with spirituality.

I'm not saying atheism is spiritual, to the contrary, you're denying yourself spirituality all together. meaning you can't go crying back to god or allah or yahweh or whatever when things get rough. also means you have to be fairly well-adjusted, because atheism has no after-life (you'll start caring about it when you're older), or none of the other 'comforts' religion provides.

I believe there are deeper levels

to reality than we are normally aware

of, even an omnipresent conciousness.

But I do not believe in the fables

of the new father figure gods like

allah and jehova. They may exist on

some extradimensional level, but

are not the ultimate reality.

Mostly they are mascots for a particular

tribe, as well as examples for perfect

citizens to serve a hierarchy society.

Does that make me an athiest?

i think all atheists are chatting shit. There must be exceptionally few people who believ in nothingness after death and not fear it.

quote:Originally posted by liquid:

i think all atheists are chatting shit. There must be exceptionally few people who believ in nothingness after death and not fear it.

Sweet irony

My parents force catholicism upon me. I came up with atheism myself though before even knowing what the word atheist men. A couple hundred articles later, I hold strong in it. Not necessarily just a rebellion phase anymore. I have thought of this a lot. I dont just say, god doesnt exist. I am open to both sides of all arguements, currently I am in favor of the atheist arguements, period. When I was 10 I started asking myself, how come people used to live for 1000 years and now they dont? The church dude told me it was punishment, then i forgot who told, but they said that before They had not developed the same calendars that we have today. That was the trigger that got my mind blowing questions. It's not about disliking religion because dad makes me go to church, I ask questions and answer them, I made a philosopher and scholar out of myself. I have even thought of the original thread starters dilemma of me begging for forgiveness later in life. The answer? I have none. I am not the common stereotypical atheist who downright ignores any arguement a religious person tells me, I actually onsider what he says. For the moment I dont beleive in the stuff, but I dont embrace the big bang theory either. Well thats just my 2 cents.

quote:Originally posted by liquid:

i think all atheists are chatting shit. There must be exceptionally few people who believ in nothingness after death and not fear it.

So? does that mean religion was not founded because the people feared nothingness after death? If people truly belieive in heaven than why are they so afraid of dying?Irony my ass. That fear of nothingness is not exclusive to atheists. It is because of that fear of nothingness that people refuse to accept atheism. "OMG look what we have accomplished, we have built cities, we have gone to the moon, it cant all be for nothing." That thought is based on the fear of nothingness after death.

quote:Originally posted by liquid:

There must be exceptionally few people who believ in nothingness after death and not fear it.

Are you kidding me? Nothingness is a relief if anything. Don't have to spend your life in fear of an afterlife that doesn't exsist (from an atheist's point of view). If you believe in heaven and hell, then you spend your entire life worried about "What if this is the one sin that pushes me over the good threshold and I have to spend all eternity roasting in hell?" No afterlife means no worrying about being in trouble after you die.

It also means 'not existing,' in the most empty and inconceivable notion of the word.

I agree that atheism should be considered a religion (for clarification on this definition, see the second point of my first post on page 6 in ArchVile's thread I'm a satanist, but I have to go to church (http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/003563-6.html)), for, as you said, it requires an equal amount of spiritual affirmation to outright deny an otherworldly existence as it does to affirm otherwise.

[EDIT: clarification]

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 02-24-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

It also means 'not existing,' in the most empty and inconceivable notion of the word.



there is not a most empty and inconceivable notion of 'not existing.'

in fact, there is NO notion of 'not existing.' how can you conceptualize something that is not even a concept? it's not ANYTHING - not even the 'it' at the beginning of this sentence.

quote:Originally posted by NewRage:

Are you kidding me? Nothingness is a relief if anything.

'if anything'...

but nothing is not anything, so it's not even a relief. it's not a thing.

edit: we should not feel anything about the afterlife. if there is an eternal life after death, then there is an eternal life... right now. if life is eternal, then why worry about making the best of our future lives, at the expense of our present lives? why not just live in heaven now?

[This message has been edited by Eil (edited 02-24-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by liquid:

i think all atheists are chatting shit. There must be exceptionally few people who believ in nothingness after death and not fear it.

If your an evil person wouldnt you prefer nothing after death to a hell for eternity? I dont believe in religion or in a god. Call that what you will.

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

in fact, there is NO notion of 'not existing.' how can you conceptualize something that is not even a concept?

Easily... see that alligator over there? No, because it doesn't exsist, it's "not existing"

quote:Originally posted by NewRage:

Easily... see that alligator over there? No, because it doesn't exsist, it's "not existing"

all that this proves is that a person cannot see that which does not exist.

can you conceptualize something that does not exist? sure. you can conceptualize that there is an alligator lurking behind your chair, that doesn't mean it exists.

...BUT! can you conceptualize something that is not even something?

con·cept

n.

1. A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.

2. Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion. See Synonyms at idea.

nothingness provides nothing to derive or infer from a specific instance or occurrence. to form an idea of nothing, as a thought in the mind, is still to form a thought, which is the opposite of nothing. to perceive nothingness is still to perceive - which is the opposite of nothingness.

to try to understand nothingness, as if it were something, is to miss the point. it's like wrestling with that alligator in your post.

[This message has been edited by Eil (edited 02-25-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by liquid:

i think all atheists are chatting shit. There must be exceptionally few people who believ in nothingness after death and not fear it.

doesnt seem to bother the animals any.

would you consider an animal an atheist, as it most certainly doesnt believe in anything spiritual

also, i prefer to spend my time with the spirituality,also known as understanding of the higher power, in this life, rather then one that may or may not exist.

atheism is like not voting from the list of religions.

atheism is not a religion,it is not taking part. it is not choosing which soda to drink, it is deciding you dont want a soda and walking out of the store.

we will find out if we were wrong when we die

I hate those stupid fucking kids who say they're athiests when they're really just trying to be... uh... "hxc".

quote:Originally posted by alchemist:

doesnt seem to bother the animals any.

would you consider an animal an atheist, as it most certainly doesnt believe in anything spiritual



are you sure about that? many animals have strange death rituals. elephants, when they get old and ready to die, seperate from the herd and goes to die by itself.

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

I believe there are deeper levels

to reality than we are normally aware

of, even an omnipresent conciousness.

But I do not believe in the fables

of the new father figure gods like

allah and jehova. They may exist on

some extradimensional level, but

are not the ultimate reality.

Mostly they are mascots for a particular

tribe, as well as examples for perfect

citizens to serve a hierarchy society.

Does that make me an athiest?

For someone who likes to use the word "cunt" ( http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/003637-2.html ) to describe female members of the human race, you sure are a sensitive, "earthy" kind of guy.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Also, it's not hard to got to http://www.dictionary.com and look "athiest" up.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 02-25-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by fstabber:

are you sure about that? many animals have strange death rituals. elephants, when they get old and ready to die, seperate from the herd and goes to die by itself.

saddest thing i ever saw was a documentary about chimpanzees. there was a male adolescent chimp who was obnoxious and aggressive towards his sister and other young chimps, but attached at the hip to his mom. when she died, he sat by her body and caressed it for days until he died of starvation by her side. it was intense.

quote:Originally posted by fstabber:

are you sure about that? many animals have strange death rituals. elephants, when they get old and ready to die, seperate from the herd and goes to die by itself.

pretty sure. my guess is they are seperating themselves to keep away predators or to keep their fetid corpse from spoiling groundwater.

but who knows? if they did have a religion of sorts, my guess is it would be animism, mother nature. that is the direction i am in myself

word em up. animism.

hardest part is training yourself to be able to recognize and separate the ignorant spirits from the deceptive spirits.

I'm atheist and I think that god was created to fill the void people had in their heads when wondering what happens when they die.

Without the existance of god, 90% of American's would give up on life and commit suicide.

I'm an atheist, but i've been brought up in a christian household. i made the decision to become an atheist long ago but i know what im on about. i think the people being described in the 1st post are agnostics- people who arn't really sure deep down. true atheists never go begging the imaginary being that is god for 'forgivness'.

quote:Originally posted by dontdrinkbleach:

I'm an atheist, but i've been brought up in a christian household. i made the decision to become an atheist long ago but i know what im on about. i think the people being described in the 1st post are agnostics- people who arn't really sure deep down. true atheists never go begging the imaginary being that is god for 'forgivness'.

I am also atheist, and I have also been brought up in a chistian household. All christiany does is give human beings comfort and thats all. Most older people that were'nt religious at younger ages start to become religious because they are afraid of what the afterlife may bring. So they start to get into religion so they can have the comfort that they "know" that they are going to heaven if they ask for forgiveness. It's all just a trap for the ignorant.

I believe there might be a God, somehow, or someway, an entity that might have started everything.

But if God is real, I don't beleive it's omnipotent, and I don't believe in worshiping it. I'm not even sure if it's fully conscious of it's actions. It certainly doesn't have a gender.

So what am I, agnostic? Or a teen going through a phase?

Mapes, you sound agnostic to me.

In any case, I don't think atheist is necessarily at odds with spirituality. One can be spiritual without believing in god.



Entheogenic

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

It also means 'not existing,' in the most empty and inconceivable notion of the word.

I agree that atheism should be considered a religion (for clarification on this definition, see the second point of my first post on page 6 in ArchVile's thread I'm a satanist, but I have to go to church (http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/003563-6.html)), for, as you said, it requires an equal amount of spiritual affirmation to outright deny an otherworldly existence as it does to affirm otherwise.



What the hell are you talking about? Atheism IS NOT a religion. What makes you think everyone must have a religion? And what makes you think that NOT having a religion, is a type of religion? This doesn't make sense.

Atheism does not require any type of spiritual affirmation, because it has nothing to with anything spiritual. It is merely a statement, that we (athiests) do not beleive in God(s).

We are not saying that we do not believe that there is a possibility that aliens, other types of life in the universe, or "otherworldly existence" exist. We are just saying that, as it stands, we do not believe in their existence. I do not believe in any God, but I know that doesn't mean there isn't one out there, or there might have been one in the past.

Here is a better post about what Atheism is and is not. http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/003703.html

Don't start a new topic to make your point stand out, asshole.



Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. We will live forever... in some form or another. If time never ends, if it is truley eternity, then this infinity will cause all possibilities to occur an infinite number of times. The various dust particles that once made up you will reform into you again, and you will once again live. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) Of course, the chances of that are so slim that it would take more eons than man has name for... but in infinity it would occur.

We can never really die.

Ya, I know what your talking about.

It's Just for popularity. Halg the people at my school are atheus! no one at my old school was atheus.

I see the pattern

They all listen to that goth /punk/rocker music too.

Dumb ass mather fuckers

Digital, I forgot about the cunt http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

remark. I call people dumb cunts

all the time, even guys.

Just like saying "dickhead".

Atheism is almost as bad

as christianity, imo.

I don't know what I am.

I know materialism doesn't work,

but religion is all shit too.

quote:Originally posted by NewRage:

If you believe in heaven and hell, then you spend your entire life worried about "What if this is the one sin that pushes me over the good threshold and I have to spend all eternity roasting in hell?"

Actually, from a christian's point of view(this is kind of funny), the number or severity of sins does NOT matter, your acceptance hinges on the dogmatic belief of god/jesus/'holy spirit'(whatever the bible says basically) and ask for forgiveness(clean slate). This is another reason I can't understand christianity. It's like, do whatever the fuck you want, then come ask forgiveness, and do it again. I'm not sure if there are any sins that equal guaranteed hell, except suicide, so I hear.

I also was a strong atheist before I knew what the word meant, converting when I was 12 years old. Now, 5 years later, I don't even talk about atheism, and people label me a poseur, namely the same kids who go around wearing upside down crosses and bragging about their non-belief.

quote:Originally posted by atheist:

I'm atheist and I think that god was created to fill the void people had in their heads when wondering what happens when they die.

Without the existance of god, 90% of American's would give up on life and commit suicide.

Maybe, but plenty of countries do just fine being absolutely godless. China, Japan, most of europe, etc. So, it doesn't have to be this way... I mean, atheism or 'no religion' doubled in the 90's to 13%.

quote:Originally posted by alchemist:

doesnt seem to bother the animals any.

would you consider an animal an atheist, as it most certainly doesnt believe in anything spiritual



well u gotta fuck off cuz ur dumb ur a piece of shit like the shit that comes out of ur moms ass so u betta belive that the big bang was be me shittin so hard that i created it so i am the one u shall all follow for always in me i will be the creator of u all forsaken sad people on this website so jerk me u assholes that belive in god he was just a jewish fuck back in those days just like jesus that began such a piece a shit story i will fuck u all ova too

peace god will save u

Agnostic?

Does any one care about me?

i do not think so....

for me atheism is fact, which is my only concern....

gods were inventions of primitive people....

a bed time story to keep fear away....

death is a scary thing....

the thought of that nothingness brings me to tears....

but it is something we all have to face....

gods make that easy....

relgion was forced on me....

but i never thought of my atheism as a means to get back at my parents....

i never rubbed it in their faces or anything....

quote:Originally posted by Finis:

Does any one care about me?

i do not think so....

for me atheism is fact, which is my only concern....

gods were inventions of primitive people....

a bed time story to keep fear away....

death is a scary thing....

the thought of that nothingness brings me to tears....

but it is something we all have to face....

gods make that easy....

relgion was forced on me....

but i never thought of my atheism as a means to get back at my parents....

i never rubbed it in their faces or anything....

very true i like the way you think on or about the whole thing