subject says it

my motto is gotta see before i believe it, but i need real proof, i want to molest the mind of a teacher

There is no absolute proof of God's existence or non-existence, although a multitude of theories and arguments for each side, far too may to list. The thing is, it doesn't even matter if God exists or not. God is comfort, a way of providing a filling for the hole created by the absurdity of reality, a bit of cop out really. However, if murdering was not forbidden by a commandment, we wouldn't go around indiscriminately murdering everyone we met would we? It's an argument that will never go anywhere, and people can continue trying to convince themselves of the truth of their beliefs through argument, or they can realise that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

i know it doesn't matter, you just have to die to know i guess, but still, if som1 knows proof, plz post it

quote:Originally posted by Agonizing Truth:

i know it doesn't matter, you just have to die to know i guess, but still, if som1 knows proof, plz post it

Like I said, there IS no proof. If there was solid proof that God does not exist, a lot of people would be renouncing their faith right now. God is abstract, you can't disprove an abstraction. I can say I saw a green giant wasp with no mouth and four arses and you couldn't disprove it was true. There's no reason for God to exist, thus you could logically argue its non-existance, but logic isn't a concern of religious types.

THERE IS NONE!!!

THAT'S THE AGONIZING TRUTH!!



GIVE UP THIS LAME QUEST.

quote:Originally posted by Rav:

There is no absolute proof of God's existence or non-existence, although a multitude of theories and arguments for each side, far too may to list. The thing is, it doesn't even matter if God exists or not. God is comfort, a way of providing a filling for the hole created by the absurdity of reality, a bit of cop out really. However, if murdering was not forbidden by a commandment, we wouldn't go around indiscriminately murdering everyone we met would we? It's an argument that will never go anywhere, and people can continue trying to convince themselves of the truth of their beliefs through argument, or they can realise that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Nicely put man.

Remember there is a difference between God and Religion, god is a matter of perspective. Religions, IMHO, are always false, even if they can be useful.

Religion (western religion anyway)falsifies god every time, because it artificially deduces truths and morals based on the concept of God, therefore limiting a being that by definition is limitless.



[This message has been edited by dagnabitt (edited 02-24-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by dagnabitt:

Nicely put man.

Thankyou sir *doffs cap*

mettaligod, thats why i chosen this name...

I like this story-

2 explorers are travelling an untouched jungle for days when they find a patch that seems to have been cultivated and organised like a garden.

1st explorer says 'look at this garden, there must be a gardener nearby'.

2nd explorer says 'why? couldnt it have just grown this way by chance?'

1st explorer says 'no there must be a gardener, lets wait for him'.

So they camp for days and don't see anyone.

2nd explorer says 'look theres no gardener, lets just go.'

1st explorer says 'There must be a gardener, we just missed him.'

So they set p bear traps and CCTV and electric fences and wait more days. Still find noone.

2nd explorer says 'look theres obviously no gardener, lets go'.

1st explorer says 'no, there must be a gardener, he's just invisible or not made of actual matter'.

2nd explorer says 'look you dick, whatever I say you are gonna twist you arguement so I cant convince you, so this is completely pointless, I don't like you anymore'.

Omfg there is no god by now dont you think there be proof?? or maybe he magicly teleports to other galaxy's and stays there for a bit

how can you people believe in this bullshit

Proof: When we eventually find alien life on another planet. That way, Christianity will be disproved.

Allow me to define the word 'belief' for you.

Belief- The substance of things hoped for and the edivence of things not seen.

Really, a belief doesn't require PROOF. For a long time it's what I wanted. My brother's still alive, when he should be dead. My aunt Is still alive after having two massive heartattacks back-to-back in Vanderbilt Hospital. They opened her chest and merely touched her heart and it stated back beating. Perhaps those are the signs I seek and I was oblivious to all the others.

There's more to it than what meets the eye. To explain the unexplained is to utter God.

"Can we not just call a miracle a miracle?"

Why, sure you can. To me it's denial.

Most say that science is there to disprove the bible, when it isn't. Science explains the bible.

'The Big Bang'

Imagine this truth, Many years ago there were atoms all around, and SUDDENLY these atoms BURST into planets. Science can't explain HOW this just happened, but the bible can. God said, "Let there be." So it is.

'Ice Age'

This world, we know through science, froze. Instantly life ceased to be.

**Heaven's spoken story in the bible**

Luicfer was the most beautiful angel. He was held in a high position, in so much that he was the ONLY angel capable of entering the throne of God to speak with him directly.

He became jealous of God. He wanted to be as God. There was a war in heaven. 1/3rd of the angels along with Lucifer were cast to this earth. God gave him the earth, then he turned from it. God is life. God is light.

This world froze without the presence of God. Without God life no longer is.

Kicker, Angels have no flesh, they are spirits. Spirits can not die. Therefore Luicifer is just alive today as he was then along with his now, demons.

God was lonely. He sought real love. Thus, he created man and gave us freedom of choice. The choice to follow him or turn from him. He gave us authority over the world. If something was yours and given to another of more power, would you not be angry?

I know this, I have all the evidence I need to be COMPLETELY certain of God's existance.

Ironic how even a jury can call a guilty man innocent and an innocent man guilty reguardless of the evidence given.

quote:Originally posted by Infernal:

Proof: When we eventually find alien life on another planet. That way, Christianity will be disproved.

really? how is that?

quote:Originally posted by Infernal:

Proof: When we eventually find alien life on another planet. That way, Christianity will be disproved.

WRONG!! You're an uneducated fool. Read your bible before you say such moronic things.

No where in the bible does it limit God's creations.



Bible code

"Recently the book has been published "The Bible code 2 - the Final Countdown". In this book the author Michael Drosin investigates code in the bible, discovered by a brilliant mathematician Dr. Eliyahu Rips., one of the world's leading experts in group theory, which underlines quantum physics. Based on Dr. Rips research it appears there is a hidden code in the bible. He even published an article in a major science journal, which has been met with a criticism, however no fault in his logic has been found. The code reveals all the Past, Present and the Future of all human kind. All major events has been coded, including World War I, II and III; Oklahoma City Bombing, World Trade Center Bombing; Watergate; Sept. 11 attack and more. Who put it there and for what purpose ? I believe the aliens did, the God civilization.

It points out how advanced this civilization is that they are able to see though time. It appears that the bible code was some kind of time lock, similar to the one in the movie Space Odyssey 2001 by Arthur Clark. It was only possible to to open it when the human kind reaches the computer age. In his book "Are We Alone ?" the Australian physicist Paul Davies imagines an artifact left by aliens - "programmed to manifest itself only when civilization on Earth crossed a certain threshold of advancement. Such a device - in effect, an extraterrestrial time capsule - could store vast amounts of important information for us." Is the bible code such a device ? the code appears to us like a very sophisticated multi dimensional computer program written on the stone blocks ! What kind of race is capable of inventing such a thing ? Are their our creator ? According to the bible, yes.

The astronomer Carl Sagan stated that if there is other intelligent life in the universe, some of it would develop much earlier then we did. I would have thousands of years more to develop the advanced technology we just beginning to explore. Sagan wrote: "What is for us technologically difficult or impossible, what might seem to us like a magic, might for them be trivially easy". Is he referring to the God civilization described in the bible ?

Most of us is familiar with work of dr. Erich von Däniken, a remarkable scientist researching the past involvement of alien civilizations with the development of our civilization.

It is worth mentioning that Isaak Newten, the founder of modern physics, spent most of his live searching for the hidden code in the bible. Obviously there were no computers at the time he lived in, so his search was doomed to be unsuccessful."

God knows EVERYTHING.

Ponder that too.

the fact that the bible does not mention aliens, or any other life-forms in this universe would be it's Achille's heel. When we find our intergalactical friends, the bible would BURN!

Comeon, the bible says that God created the EARTH, not the universe. Plus, it would be further disporved when we find aliens with a totally different religion, different to Christianity. You're fucked either way, I suppose you drown yourself in your own excretement, horse-tugger.

quote:Originally posted by Infernal:

the fact that the bible does not mention aliens, or any other life-forms in this universe would be it's Achille's heel. When we find our intergalactical friends, the bible would BURN!

Comeon, the bible says that God created the EARTH, not the universe. Plus, it would be further disporved when we find aliens with a totally different religion, different to Christianity. You're fucked either way, I suppose you drown yourself in your own excretement, horse-tugger.

"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth...."

gwned

Heavens does not equal to universe, cuntlips. If everyone dies, they go to heaven right? THEN WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY? Apollo 1 should have sodomised millions of dead souls with it's ceramic-lead composite tip.

which is why i think it needs to mandatory for someone to think about what theyre saying, BEFORE they post it....sodomising souls with a space ship i mean seriously.

and no the bible wont stay down if e.t. life is found, just like every other failed prophecy theyll just find a way around it.

[This message has been edited by LeperMessiah (edited 02-26-2005).]

I'm just using inquisitor_11's logic, saying that the heavens are the same as the universe. Go figure, asshole.

its impossible to prove a negative.

Big Bang you idiots! Instantly all planets were formed from atoms. Thus, God created the universe!

fuck pondering religion, I'll stick to the nihilistic truth.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Big Bang you idiots! Instantly all planets were formed from atoms. Thus, God created the universe!

Amazing, you just disproved your reading.

Qwned.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:



"Recently the book has been published "The Bible code 2 - the Final Countdown". In this book the author Michael Drosin investigates code in the bible, discovered by a brilliant mathematician Dr. Eliyahu Rips., one of the world's leading experts in group theory, which underlines quantum physics. Based on Dr. Rips research it appears there is a hidden code in the bible. He even published an article in a major science journal, which has been met with a criticism, however no fault in his logic has been found. The code reveals all the Past, Present and the Future of all human kind. All major events has been coded, including World War I, II and III; Oklahoma City Bombing, World Trade Center Bombing; Watergate; Sept. 11 attack and more. Who put it there and for what purpose ? I believe the aliens did, the God civilization.

It points out how advanced this civilization is that they are able to see though time. It appears that the bible code was some kind of time lock, similar to the one in the movie Space Odyssey 2001 by Arthur Clark. It was only possible to to open it when the human kind reaches the computer age. In his book "Are We Alone ?" the Australian physicist Paul Davies imagines an artifact left by aliens - "programmed to manifest itself only when civilization on Earth crossed a certain threshold of advancement. Such a device - in effect, an extraterrestrial time capsule - could store vast amounts of important information for us." Is the bible code such a device ? the code appears to us like a very sophisticated multi dimensional computer program written on the stone blocks ! What kind of race is capable of inventing such a thing ? Are their our creator ? According to the bible, yes.

The astronomer Carl Sagan stated that if there is other intelligent life in the universe, some of it would develop much earlier then we did. I would have thousands of years more to develop the advanced technology we just beginning to explore. Sagan wrote: "What is for us technologically difficult or impossible, what might seem to us like a magic, might for them be trivially easy". Is he referring to the God civilization described in the bible ?

Most of us is familiar with work of dr. Erich von Däniken, a remarkable scientist researching the past involvement of alien civilizations with the development of our civilization.

It is worth mentioning that Isaak Newten, the founder of modern physics, spent most of his live searching for the hidden code in the bible. Obviously there were no computers at the time he lived in, so his search was doomed to be unsuccessful."

God knows EVERYTHING.

Ponder that too.

Blah blah blah, psuedointelectual bullcrap.

Isaac Newton - thats how you spell his name, by the way, was NOT the "father" of modern physics, he was the "father" of Classical physics.

For the "fathers" of modern physics, you would be thinking of Plank, Bohr, Einstien, and all those other nice people.

And what language would this bible code be found it? what translation?

The old testament was written in Hebrew, the new in Greek.

The bible is a collection of different scriptures, there was never some point in time where it just materialized out of thin air - it was made by PEOPLE.

Argue whether the scriptures were divinely inspired all you want, the idea of some "bible code" is bullshit.

You can find whatever you want in a book that big.

(Moby Dick Predicts the rise of Darwinism...)

I could explain why we will NEVER encounter extrateristial life, even though statistically, it's practically certain that it exists, but I couldn't be fucked, because you will probably just dismiss it with some bullcrap "anythings possible" tripe.

[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 02-26-2005).]

thx for the reply's, but why the fuck do you need to insult eachother ffs?

i only believe in nature, no god, no satan,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

And what language would this bible code be found it? what translation?

The old testament was written in Hebrew, the new in Greek.

I have a copy of the book: The Bible Code. On page 20 it says:

"The Bible code was discovered in the original Hebrew version of the Old Testament, the Bible as it was first written."

It has been a few years since i've read this book, and i seem to recall that that somewhere else in the book it says that the code only works for the first five books of the Bible and for some parts of Daniel.



You can find whatever you want in a book that big.

(Moby Dick Predicts the rise of Darwinism...)[/b]

page 21: "He (Rips) handed me (Drosnin) a copy of their (Rips and Doron Witztum) original experiment, "Equidistant Letter Sequences on the Book of Genesis." The abstract on the cover page read, "Randomization analysis indicates that hidden information is woven into the text of Genesis in the form of equidistant letter sequences. The effect is significant at the level of 99.998%."

. I read through the paper as we sat in his living room. What Rips and his colleagues had done was to search for the names of 32 great sages, wise men from Biblical to modern times, to determine whether their names, and the dates of their birth and death, were encoded in the first book of the Bible. They looked for the same names and the same dates in the Hebrew translation of WAR AND PEACE and in two original Hebrew texts. In the Bible the names and the dates were encoded together. In WAR AND PEACE and the 2 other books, they were not."

The author of the book comes to the conclusion that the code is in the Bible for the purpose of warning us, so that we can change our future.

I disagree. If the Bible code is real, it is there as prophecy for the sake of showing that God's Word is divinely inspired.

I remember wondering, if the code is real, why would it only work for part of the Bible?

I think there are two possibilities:

1. To confirm that the WAR AND PEACE -- MOBY DICK arguement is wrong.

2. Only the Pentateuch and Daniel were divinely inspired.

Since the whole Bible agrees with those six Books, I think that the reason would be reason #1.

At any rate, I am not 100% convinced that the code is true. But i am positive that it was not put there by advanced space-people. All that does is push the question of origin back.

It is possible that God also created life elsewhere in the universe, but i tend to think this is against scripture (six literal creation days).

I've seen the Moby Dick evidence, so I'm certain of that, no idea bout war and peace or anything.

Heh... maybe Moby dick was a divinely inspired warning about secularism? http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

I honestly cant see how, considering all the claims made about how God talks to people through the holy spirt, and guides them through study of the bible "normally",

why on earth some weird code thing could possibly be necessary.

I mean, with such miracles as the dead rising, spiritual gifts, and such, why on earth would God write cryptic crosswords in his divinely inspired book?

hehe... I like this... http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/skepticism/theomatics.html

"As a warning to creationists and code-followers that the "code" phenomenon is a double-edged sword, I "computer-code" searched the King James version of Genesis for the message, "Darwin got it right," and found it! But these amazing messages are not evidence of divine design; they are simply the luck of the draw."

LMAO...

I also found MONICA crossed with CLINTON, near the phrase "thou shalt not go down."





[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 02-27-2005).]

God is love and love comes from our own heart further underscoring the truth that we must look within ourselves to find God. If, according to Gnosticism, the kingdom of God is to be found within our own being then who or what is God according to the New Testament? God is love (1 John 4:8 and 4:16). Love is not observable and so love complies with Jesus’ advice that the kingdom of God does not come by observation. Love comes from the great sun of infinite life and bubbles up through the wellspring of our own inner heart. We will never directly experience love anywhere but in our own heart.

God doesn't exist, god is love. (according to gnostic christians)

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

hehe... I like this... http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/skepticism/theomatics.html



Thank you. IMO, this was the best link i've seen in TOTSE, that refuted a statement made in this forum (to include links that i have posted).

quote:Originally posted by Infernal:

Amazing, you just disproved your reading.

Qwned.

No I explained it.

There's no proving God exists or not. You either have faith or you don't.

Shut up already.

if he does exist is he male or female?..i tend to believe if in truth he does exist,he must be male.otherwise we'd all have our dicks on our chins.

Whether or not god exists depends on your definition of god .

Nobody has yet to define the word "god" in this thread which amazes me. "god" can mean hundreds of different things depending on who you ask. You cannot disprove something if you do not know what you are trying to disprove.

Oh and to whoever posted asking if god would be male or female, my answer would be both or neither..

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Big Bang you idiots! Instantly all planets were formed from atoms. Thus, God created the universe!

You just disproved the theory of your own intelligence. All planets were not "instantly" created. They took billions of years to form. Twatface.

I just wanted to point out that during the Ice Age, the entire Earth didn't freeze.

Pay attention in class.

quote:Originally posted by devil's haircut:

I just wanted to point out that during the Ice Age, the entire Earth didn't freeze.

Pay attention in class.

Haha good call.. I can't believe I didn't think of that before you did.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

No I explained it.



Explain what? That the Big Bang was the work of God. Get real.

i dunno if this has been posted, and i dont really know if it's right (im not religious) so correct me if i'm wrong

If the bible is supposed to be the word of god or the code of rules or whatever then how is it when io thought that it was a collection of writings of different people in a different language translated and glued together to sell. capitalism at its best

quote:Originally posted by Infernal:

the fact that the bible does not mention aliens, or any other life-forms in this universe would be it's Achille's heel. When we find our intergalactical friends, the bible would BURN!

Comeon, the bible says that God created the EARTH, not the universe. Plus, it would be further disporved when we find aliens with a totally different religion, different to Christianity. You're fucked either way, I suppose you drown yourself in your own excretement, horse-tugger.

Wrong. The bible says God created the HEAVENS and the Earth! Heavens is universe. If you'd use the little black script under the verses you'd see the meaning of the words and the correct context used in modern day society.

Written by PEOPLE who were scribes and reporters. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John all of these three people, basically see the same thing but tell it, each, differently.

If a few were witnesses to a murder all would have something different to say about the experience and of recollection.

Yes, that's why they can't explain how these little atoms bursted into planets and what not.

you need proof that god exists? what gives proof that anything exists? u have to be able to see it? smell it? hear it? touch it? taste it? Can you see your brain? NO can you smell it? NO Can you hear it? NO, can you touch it? NO, can you taste it? NO. does that mean you dont have a brain? NO. Well maybe some of you dont but the rest of the world does.

SO you people are just saying that love, greed, jealousy, anger, lust, etc are all just random chemical reactions in the brain? Not likely. The advancement of man couldnt have just happened over the last 2000 years without some higher power or agenda.

Just take a look at the sunset or a waterfall and tell me that it just appeared all of a sudden.

And by the way, god isnt a person or a he or a she, people jsut refer to him as he because its convenient. Anyways hes a higher power and whats to say that he didnt cause the big bang?

alright, im done ranting.

[This message has been edited by guitardoodsez (edited 03-10-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Written by PEOPLE who were scribes and reporters. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John all of these three people, basically see the same thing but tell it, each, differently.

If a few were witnesses to a murder all would have something different to say about the experience and of recollection.





That's only the New Testament. The apostle's you mentioned were all with each other at the same time.

You have completely left out the OTYHER authors, that lived 100's of years apart, in different regions.

How do you explain THEIR experiences with Go, before Jesus even came ?

It would be helpful if people would study Christianity before they talked about it.

The term 'God' is so undefinable that it's just an equivocation.

Millions of people believe in god.

These people believe that god wants them to act in a certain manner.

Millions of people live under the influence of god.

Motivations are real, therefore god must be considered as real.

Just one form of the term 'god' and an argument behind that form's existence.

Until we come to one definition of God, we cannot move forward. Unless that definition(which it probably will/should) includes the word 'preternatural' in which we go directly back to a position of can't prove/can't disprove, because nothing preternatural can possibly be experienced.