First of i wanna know the reason that you beleive in god, if you do.

Second i wanna know what religion you happen to be, if in fact you have one.

And third i wanna know how involved you are with the religion that you are in.

This is all just because i am an athiest and i want to see what other people beleive in and why. I used to be in a church and i beleived some things but it all just went away one day. I guess im just curious.

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/menus/debates.html

Reason I Believe In God: It's a haunch.

Religion I Happen To Be: athiests call me Agnostic, agnostics call me Athiest.

How Involved I Am: I study religion in general and mod a religious forum. I think I'm rather involved as a religious scholar in the religion scene, but I'm not at all involved in my own religion because my own religion doesn't exist. I'm spiritual but the closest thing I have to a religion is the fact that I drink every day.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Reason I Believe In God: It's a haunch.

Religion I Happen To Be: athiests call me Agnostic, agnostics call me Athiest.

How Involved I Am: I study religion in general and mod a religious forum. I think I'm rather involved as a religious scholar in the religion scene, but I'm not at all involved in my own religion because my own religion doesn't exist. I'm spiritual but the closest thing I have to a religion is the fact that I drink every day.

Cheers,

Lost

Except for the mod thing.

I believe in God. I don't know, no one has ever gave me a very good reason not to believe there is a creator. And in my life I've gone through some bad times where I doubted there was a God and I happen to open up my Bible and every time that happened, the first thing on the first page was something that taught me something. Things like that are they way God speaks to you a lot of the time.

Presently I'm in the process of converting to Roman Catholicism. I'll be confirmed on Easter Vigil and I'm so excited.

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

I believe in God. I don't know, no one has ever gave me a very good reason not to believe there is a creator. And in my life I've gone through some bad times where I doubted there was a God and I happen to open up my Bible and every time that happened, the first thing on the first page was something that taught me something. Things like that are they way God speaks to you a lot of the time.

Presently I'm in the process of converting to Roman Catholicism. I'll be confirmed on Easter Vigil and I'm so excited.



I'm very happy for you Zman. I'm not very good at expressing my emotions, but this is very sincere.

I'd be excited I was SAVED, and nothing more.

I am glad it will make you happy, though you know the reasons why I don't agree.

I hope it is the experience you are looking for, and that it continues to lead you down the path to God.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I'd be excited I was SAVED, and nothing more.





What do you think I'm happy about? I finally know I'm on the path God has been pulling me toward since I was three.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I'd be excited I was SAVED, and nothing more.

I am glad it will make you happy, though you know the reasons why I don't agree.

I hope it is the experience you are looking for, and that it continues to lead you down the path to God.



I like you, Digi. But, sometimes... you're really wierd. And that's coming from me and I'm certifiable!

Cheers,

Lost

Reason I Believe in God: I don't.

My Religion: totse

How Involved: I go every day, w00tz0r.

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

What do you think I'm happy about? I finally know I'm on the path God has been pulling me toward since I was three.

Being a "Catholic", or a "this" or a "that" as an identifiable religious belonging should not make you happy, in a spiritual sense.

Only salvation through God, should.

Catholicism can do no more for you than jump roping can.

I know that is an awful thing to say to someone who is about to dedicate their lives to a religion, but the religion itself matters nothing.

Catholicism won't bring you closer to God, nor will it bring spiritual affirmation of your salvation.

You are saved, and going to heaven, because you believe in Him, and that He sent His son Jesus to die for your sin.

That's it.

I don't know how many different ways I can say this to you, Z.

I don't judge you at all for wanting to "belong" to something, or for having conviction for your religion, but I think it would be so much more beneficial to your spiritual walk if you focused less on the church, and more on God.

Let's say you were stranded alone out in the middle of the desert. You manage to find a source of food and water that will be sufficient to sustain you for the rest of your days.

You have no hope of ever seeing another human again, however, and what you do with your time is no one else's decision but your own. You alone affect the outcome of each day.

Knowing what you know at this moment about God, would you say that any sort of religious ritual you could choose to participate in, in that scenario, would matter in the least bit ?

I personally think it wouldn't. I think the simple relationship God wants with us is enough.

So, that's my opinion. I definitely don't want to take anything away from your decision...it's yours to make.

I hope that within the confines of religious burden you find a true and fulfilling relationship with God, in spite of it all.

God bless.

Lost, why did you find that statement to be weird ? Do I need to clarify something ?

I'd be happy to.

And the feeling is mutual. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I have no religion. I believe in a form of god that is non-Judaic. Meaning it's also not the Christian God. It's tough to say you believe in god, though, without people thinking you mean that one..

I just know. I mean I have visions and "conversations" of sorts as well. To disbelieve would be for me to say water isn't wet. I know it is. I don't believe it is.

I actively read others opinions/views/relations with their respective gods. That is my involvement. I don't preach, you can't preach it, it's just something you know, it is revealed to you as it was to me. I am no prophet, though.

In the time I've been going to Mass, I feel I've grown tremendously, spiritually. Literally as long as I remember being alive I always felt attracted to the Catholic Church. Even when I was three and went to my cousins confirmation and stuff, I always felt that this is where I should be.

I'm happy not about being a Catholic but being what I know God has called me to, which happens to be Catholicism. I'm happy about my relationship with God.

Religion is just another way for humans to segragate themselves from other human beings. What I think we should do is ditch the whole religion ideal and agree to belong to one group called humanity instead of splitting into different religions that cause a lot more evil than good.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Lost, why did you find that statement to be weird ? Do I need to clarify something ?

I'd be happy to.

And the feeling is mutual. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Jesus Christ does every lonely computer freak hit on Lost or something?

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

In the time I've been going to Mass, I feel I've grown tremendously, spiritually. Literally as long as I remember being alive I always felt attracted to the Catholic Church. Even when I was three and went to my cousins confirmation and stuff, I always felt that this is where I should be.

I'm happy not about being a Catholic but being what I know God has called me to, which happens to be Catholicism. I'm happy about my relationship with God.

Oh my fucking God. Ok I ,myself, was once part of the Catholic community. When I was a kid I just went to church because my parents told me too, and i usually fell asleep too. But when I got older and actually started listening to what the preacher was saying I just couldn't believe how anybody could believe any of this shit. Then it pisses me off that people believe so strongly and blindly in something that makes absolutaly no sence once or ever. It pisses me off so much that I just feel that the people that believe so blindly and will not listen to reason in anyway should not be allowed to live a life of complete illusion. I don't mean that everybody that goes to church should die its the people that absolutaly know theres a God and won't listen to anything else. And it really pisses me off when they can't even defend God but still won't listen. Those people should die.

How is believing in a God illogical?

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

How is believing in a God illogical?

Because how could their logically be a God. A great being that is affecting or observing our species from a distance. The only reason there is a God in the first place is because mankind needs to feel better about itself. Knowing that we are meant for something better and we all have a purpose. Or to hide the fear of death. All God is is something created to make mankind feel better.

Well, then, even if God is created as you say, God does exist.

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Religion is just another way for humans to segragate themselves from other human beings. What I think we should do is ditch the whole religion ideal and agree to belong to one group called humanity instead of splitting into different religions that cause a lot more evil than good.

Comming from a guy who calls himself "Nazi".......

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Jesus Christ does every lonely computer freak hit on Lost or something?

Digital Savior is a woman, and older than LostCause if I'm correct. Not trying to pry into your age though Digi http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif), just assuming from conversation.

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Because how could their logically be a God. A great being that is affecting or observing our species from a distance. The only reason there is a God in the first place is because mankind needs to feel better about itself. Knowing that we are meant for something better and we all have a purpose. Or to hide the fear of death. All God is is something created to make mankind feel better.

....or you're wrong. All you are making is assertions here, presenting opinion as pure fact. The Judeo-Christian God is just as feasible as what you are saying.

What is everyone problem, not seeing that Christianity is such a beautiful thing?

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Jesus Christ does every lonely computer freak hit on Lost or something?

First of all, yes. Second of all, Digital is a chick, too. And judging by her posts in this forum I highly doubt she's gay.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Jesus Christ does every lonely computer freak hit on Lost or something?

*clears throat*

I'm a woman, eejit.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

Digital Savior is a woman, and older than LostCause if I'm correct. Not trying to pry into your age though Digi http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif), just assuming from conversation.

Uh what I call myself has nothing to do with my opinions. Ok I might share some view points with the Nazis but the main point I put it as my name is so people would complain about. And so far a shit load of people has said shit bout my name.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

Digital Savior is a woman, and older than LostCause if I'm correct. Not trying to pry into your age though Digi http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif), just assuming from conversation.

*lol*

No, its cool.

I am 26.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

*clears throat*

I'm a woman, eejit.

That dosen't mean anything for all I know you could be lesbian. And I am so damn sorry I don't know everybodies damn gender.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

First of all, yes. Second of all, Digital is a chick, too. And judging by her posts in this forum I highly doubt she's gay.

Cheers,

Lost

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Amen !

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

That dosen't mean anything for all I know you could be lesbian. And I am so damn sorry I don't know everybodies damn gender.

If you paid any attention to the forum, you'd very well know my gender, as well as my sexual orientation.

You're just ignorant...try and catch up.

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

That dosen't mean anything for all I know you could be lesbian. And I am so damn sorry I don't know everybodies damn gender.

That's fine you don't know, but you sure tend to assume everyones a guy.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Being a "Catholic", or a "this" or a "that" as an identifiable religious belonging should not make you happy, in a spiritual sense.

Only salvation through God, should.

Catholicism can do no more for you than jump roping can.

I know that is an awful thing to say to someone who is about to dedicate their lives to a religion, but the religion itself matters nothing.

Catholicism won't bring you closer to God, nor will it bring spiritual affirmation of your salvation.

You are saved, and going to heaven, because you believe in Him, and that He sent His son Jesus to die for your sin.

That's it.

I don't know how many different ways I can say this to you, Z.

I don't judge you at all for wanting to "belong" to something, or for having conviction for your religion, but I think it would be so much more beneficial to your spiritual walk if you focused less on the church, and more on God.

Let's say you were stranded alone out in the middle of the desert. You manage to find a source of food and water that will be sufficient to sustain you for the rest of your days.

You have no hope of ever seeing another human again, however, and what you do with your time is no one else's decision but your own. You alone affect the outcome of each day.

Knowing what you know at this moment about God, would you say that any sort of religious ritual you could choose to participate in, in that scenario, would matter in the least bit ?

I personally think it wouldn't. I think the simple relationship God wants with us is enough.

So, that's my opinion. I definitely don't want to take anything away from your decision...it's yours to make.

I hope that within the confines of religious burden you find a true and fulfilling relationship with God, in spite of it all.

God bless.

Well said. Im glad there is some person who is a Christian besides myself.

Why i believe in God: There are only two ways the universe exists. Creation or evolution. Ive read several books onthe subject and the fact better suit the creation model, whereas evolutionary model must be revised to fit the evidence. Its true that being raised in church will make you more apt to conform to the same faith but i CHOSE to become Christian. There are probably some of you here that read the bible merely for some reading. Be it historic, or sometimes research. But you cant get the true meaning out of it without being a true child of God.

God has helped me through plenty enough situations so i know He is real. As a side note id like to ask that im also into psychicstuff and found that its not al Satanist crap. Its not for everyone but...meh

Religion: Independant Baptist, Christianity

How involved: I pray when i can remember to. I go to church sunday morning and night and wedsnesday. I occasionally go of youth rallies. I want to read the bible but im having a hard time picking it up. (If you happen to be a christian you know what thats all about).

Also catholicism (SP?) isnt a true form of christianity. True they worship god and jesus and blah blah He is the risen Son of God and whatnot, but you dont believe on Him to take away your sin. You ask the priest, who thenasks Mary, who then asks Jesus. I find it difficult to comprehend why catholics believe that Mary is so high and mighty if the bible plainly says that Gabriel told Mary she is "blessed AMONG women" and yet you worship her as if she were demigod?

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

but you dont believe on Him to take away your sin. You ask the priest, who thenasks Mary, who then asks Jesus. I find it difficult to comprehend why catholics believe that Mary is so high and mighty if the bible plainly says that Gabriel told Mary she is "blessed AMONG women" and yet you worship her as if she were demigod?



Yeah, Catholics do believe Jesus takes away our sin, we ask him for His forgiveness all the time...We don't worship Mary..Where'd you get these ideas?

As I have said numerous times, if you pray to anyone besides God, you are in err.

Mary doesn't hear you.

Sorry.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

If you paid any attention to the forum, you'd very well know my gender, as well as my sexual orientation.

You're just ignorant...try and catch up.

Ok fuck you you cunt. I don't need to be called ignorant from some damn cyber lesbian.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

That's fine you don't know, but you sure tend to assume everyones a guy.

Cheers,

Lost

Yeah I tend to do that. Just a habit. Sorry.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Well said. Im glad there is some person who is a Christian besides myself.

Why i believe in God: There are only two ways the universe exists. Creation or evolution. Ive read several books onthe subject and the fact better suit the creation model, whereas evolutionary model must be revised to fit the evidence. Its true that being raised in church will make you more apt to conform to the same faith but i CHOSE to become Christian. There are probably some of you here that read the bible merely for some reading. Be it historic, or sometimes research. But you cant get the true meaning out of it without being a true child of God.

God has helped me through plenty enough situations so i know He is real. As a side note id like to ask that im also into psychicstuff and found that its not al Satanist crap. Its not for everyone but...meh

Religion: Independant Baptist, Christianity

How involved: I pray when i can remember to. I go to church sunday morning and night and wedsnesday. I occasionally go of youth rallies. I want to read the bible but im having a hard time picking it up. (If you happen to be a christian you know what thats all about).

Also catholicism (SP?) isnt a true form of christianity. True they worship god and jesus and blah blah He is the risen Son of God and whatnot, but you dont believe on Him to take away your sin. You ask the priest, who thenasks Mary, who then asks Jesus. I find it difficult to comprehend why catholics believe that Mary is so high and mighty if the bible plainly says that Gabriel told Mary she is "blessed AMONG women" and yet you worship her as if she were demigod?

In my life God has never helped me. Even though there are people out there that are going to tell me that he has in some way I just haven't noticed or that I'm too ignorant or something. But I seriously can't believe in a greater being that is always there just helping us along a little. I believe in logic. And that just is not logical in anyway. And people who say that God has helped them or God has spoken to them really annoy me. What makes you so special? Then you can also argue that I just don't hear God because I choose no to. But argueing about if there is a God or not a God or whatever. Is just a useless arguement. No one is going to change anybody elses mind.

Well then nice to hear that some people are very closed minded. They wont look to the outside of the circle and see that religion is just bullshit. And people that say that there are only two ways we were created are stupid becuase I'm sure that no fucking god created us and I'm sure that we didn't come from fucking monkeys. I beleive that we have no reason to be here. We are all just fucked up mistakes that know to much. We shhould all just die, which will soon happen.

MASS GENOCIDE.

quote:Originally posted by bored_test_subject:

Well then nice to hear that some people are very closed minded. They wont look to the outside of the circle and see that religion is just bullshit. And people that say that there are only two ways we were created are stupid becuase I'm sure that no fucking god created us and I'm sure that we didn't come from fucking monkeys. I beleive that we have no reason to be here. We are all just fucked up mistakes that know to much. We shhould all just die, which will soon happen.

MASS GENOCIDE.

Please, point out ONE scientist who claimed we came from monkeys.

quote:Originally posted by bored_test_subject:

Well then nice to hear that some people are very closed minded. They wont look to the outside of the circle and see that religion is just bullshit. And people that say that there are only two ways we were created are stupid becuase I'm sure that no fucking god created us and I'm sure that we didn't come from fucking monkeys. I beleive that we have no reason to be here. We are all just fucked up mistakes that know to much. We shhould all just die, which will soon happen.

MASS GENOCIDE.



the mistakes that you say we came from is basically saying the same thing as saying we came from monkeys. What i mean is, evolution is really saying that there was only a naturalistic origin, since attributing it to special creation by a Creator goes against what science is all about.. (atleast, that is more or less what evolutionist say).

Evolution doesn't deal with origin, just what's happened since origin. Whether life came from a creator or abiotic origins is of no concern to the Theory of Evolution, which is simply an explanation of variations amongst species over time. Abiotic Genesis is what actually goes against a creator of life, though evolutionary theory does go against the biblical account of creation.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

As I have said numerous times, if you pray to anyone besides God, you are in err.

Mary doesn't hear you.

Sorry.

Wow. I was kind of in the middle during the whole dagnabbit ordeal, but you really are the typical Christian. You don't even know about other sects of Christianity, let alone anything else.

Do yourself a favour and stop listening to anti-Catholic propaganda.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

Wow. I was kind of in the middle during the whole dagnabbit ordeal, but you really are the typical Christian. You don't even know about other sects of Christianity, let alone anything else.

Do yourself a favour and stop listening to anti-Catholic propaganda.

But from my prospective of growing up in a very strong catholic household the catolic religion is just complete shit. It's the worst one out of christianity.

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

But from my prospective of growing up in a very strong catholic household the catolic religion is just complete shit. It's the worst one out of christianity.

Your opinion really has no relevance to my point.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

As I have said numerous times, if you pray to anyone besides God, you are in err.

Mary doesn't hear you.

Sorry.

The Bible says we should ask other Christians to pray for us. The Bible says that people and angels in heaven know whats going on. They can hear our request for prayers. I don't really see what's so bad about that.

A. Prayers for the Dead

Tobit 12:12; 2 Macc 12:39-45; 1 Cor 15:29; 2 Tim 1:16-18.

------------------------------------------------------------

B. Dead Saints Are Aware of Earthly Affairs

Mt 22:30 w/ Lk 15:7,10 & 1 Cor 4:9; Heb 12:1.

------------------------------------------------------------

C. Dead Saints Intercede For Those On Earth

Jer 15:1; 2 Macc 15:14; Rev 6:9-10.

------------------------------------------------------------

D. Intercessory Mediation of Saints and Angels

Tobit 12:12-15; Rev 5:8 and 8:3-4.

------------------------------------------------------------

E. Dead Saints Appear On Earth to Interact With Men

1 Sam 28:12-15 with Ecclesiasticus 46:20; 2 Macc 15:13-16; Mt 17:1-3 and 27:50-53; Rev 11:3.

------------------------------------------------------------

F. Guardian Angels

Ps 34:7; 91:11; Mt 18:10; Acts 12:15; Heb 1:14.

------------------------------------------------------------

G. Angels Are Aware of Our Thoughts

Lk 15:10; 1 Cor 4:9.

------------------------------------------------------------

H. Angels Participate In the Giving of God's Grace

Rev 1:4.

---

Ps. 148:1-2

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

Your opinion really has no relevance to my point.

Yes it does because I never listened to anti-catholic propaganda. The whole religion is just so fucked up that any smart person can see that it's shit.

Atheism is logical.

Why?

Because lack of evidence is not evidence in itself, but is reason to believe that the inevidenced subject is false.



There is as much proof as for a god as for undetectable purple cows which fly behind clouds.

Now, by the false logic people use for believeing in a god, we could also believe in these cows.

Prove the cows don't exist, prove that god doesn't exist. Otherwise, by the logic of theists, the cows also exist. And by the logic of the agnostics, the cows might exist.





Anyway, for those who are religious, you cannot debate faith, as, by definition, it is not debatable.

And just to sink the Christian ship:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

yes athiesm is logical but as you all see hear so is religion. They are both logical because there is not enough evidence to support either. Its just a basis of opinion. My opinion is that the bible is just a bunch of BS. But im not saying that atheism is logical. I just don't beleive in God.

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Yes it does because I never listened to anti-catholic propaganda. The whole religion is just so fucked up that any smart person can see that it's shit.

You don't get it. I'm referring to her specifically saying Catholics pray to Mary. That is completely untrue.

It doesn't matter what your opinion of it is, because I wasn't talking to you to begin with.

Well maybe you should state that a little better. And if you don't want to hear other peoples opinions maybe you shouldn't be on totse.

[This message has been edited by Nazi (edited 03-09-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Well maybe you should state that a little better. And if you don't want to hear other peoples opinions maybe you shouldn't be on totse.



Are you retarded or can you not read? (Both, maybe?)

I clearly quoted Digital's post about praying to Mary. I never asked "HEY WHO THINKS CATHOLICISM IS STUPZITDZ?!"

Maybe you ought not be here, considering you are new here and completely clueless.

Quick note on Catholicism: They don't pray to Mary, they don't pray to the saints, they don't pray to dead relatives/friends...they ask the deceased to pray for them.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

Are you retarded or can you not read? (Both, maybe?)

I clearly quoted Digital's post about praying to Mary. I never asked "HEY WHO THINKS CATHOLICISM IS STUPZITDZ?!"

Maybe you ought not be here, considering you are new here and completely clueless.

Well if your going to post to someone your probly not only going to get their opinion. I'm so damn sorry i stated mine. But that's what totse is about. Stating ones opinions. So complaining that I stated my opinion on something you asked someone else isn't going to make me stop. Your just going to piss me off because your complaing about my right to state my opinion. So fuck off you prick.

[This message has been edited by Nazi (edited 03-09-2005).]

Okay then. Nazi we get that you hate catholics. Or any one who beleives in God. Fuckin Right.

quote:Originally posted by Nazi:

Religion is just another way for humans to segragate themselves from other human beings. What I think we should do is ditch the whole religion ideal and agree to belong to one group called humanity instead of splitting into different religions that cause a lot more evil than good.

i like that coming from "Nazi"...but hey...i completly agree with you

quote:Originally posted by Zman:



Yeah, Catholics do believe Jesus takes away our sin, we ask him for His forgiveness all the time...We don't worship Mary..Where'd you get these ideas?

wtf....ever hear of "mother mary full of grace"?....mary fits somewhere in there..ive gone to enough fucking church to hear that a hundred times

quote:Originally posted by bored_test_subject:

Okay then. Nazi we get that you hate catholics. Or any one who beleives in God. Fuckin Right.



Woa, strong words. I thought you two were inlove or something.

Guess I was wrong.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by The Interrex:

wtf....ever hear of "mother mary full of grace"?....mary fits somewhere in there..ive gone to enough fucking church to hear that a hundred times

Yeah? Then you should've been listening more carefully, tard. The whole prayer goes like this:

"Hail Mary, full of grace.

The Lord is with thee.

Blessed art thou amongst women,

and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God,

pray for us sinners,

now and at the hour of our death.

Amen."

Understand now?

Lost,

Being the mod of the "religious" forum, do you ever hear any points or arguements made that are even remotely original? Or is it always the same ol' shit...

-Abra

Today at school i was talking to a friend and he told me something that i think is very interesting. He told me that its not true that Mary was a virgin but they screwed up in the translation. It was supposed to be 'young' mary not virgin, so in reality it was probably not gods hand that gave mary jesus, but joeseph's cock. This seems much more reasonable to me. Tell me what you think about this.

Tess,

The whole prayer or chant or whatever the fuck you just cited is dircted to Mary. You just proved him more rightererer.

-Abra

quote:Originally posted by Cadabra:

Tess,

The whole prayer or chant or whatever the fuck you just cited is dircted to Mary. You just proved him more rightererer.

-Abra

What are you trying to say? What him do you mean?

quote:Originally posted by bored_test_subject:

Okay then. Nazi we get that you hate catholics. Or any one who beleives in God. Fuckin Right.

Hehehe. So do you dumbass.

quote:Originally posted by Cadabra:

Tess,

The whole prayer or chant or whatever the fuck you just cited is dircted to Mary. You just proved him more rightererer.

-Abra

No, you are wrong.

Bored,

Ya, I've heard about the misinterpretation or replacement of 'young' too. That sure would fuck up the entire foundation of Christianity. 'Cause if God isn't Jesus' Daddy. That means Jesus was just a great guy and everyone blew his life and his words way out of proportion.

-Abra

quote:Originally posted by Cadabra:

Lost,

Being the mod of the "religious" forum, do you ever hear any points or arguements made that are even remotely original? Or is it always the same ol' shit...

-Abra

Every once in a while I hear something interesting. But, this is the same as anything else: music, art, fashion, people, religion, whatever - 99.9% of it sucks and is bullshit, but there's the .01% that is awesome and that's what I live for.

By the way: nice handle.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Today at school i was talking to a friend and he told me something that i think is very interesting. He told me that its not true that Mary was a virgin but they screwed up in the translation. It was supposed to be 'young' mary not virgin, so in reality it was probably not gods hand that gave mary jesus, but joeseph's cock. This seems much more reasonable to me. Tell me what you think about this.

You'll have to be careful when they defend that it really means virgin, because there are two different sources that are used. First is the original Hebrew, which, when properly translated, says young girl. The Septuagint, however, says virgin. The Septuagint was quickly and uncarefully composed in Greek for the Greek speaking Hebrews of that time. Sometimes the writers of the King James Version (and other early English translations) switched between using the actual Hebrew and the Septuagint to make the Bible say what they wanted it to.

By the way, that's about the Old Testament prophesy, not the actual verses in the gospels. But some say that if you look at the "Matthew" text closely the virgin part is an interpolation. The church needed the virgin birth to prove some of their ideas about Jesus against the heteric gnostics. One of these is the concept of Original Sin, that the desire to commit evil acts is passed down through the father's semen. Another is the idea that Jesus was God from his birth, and that it was impossible to attain holiness as Jesus did. Finally, there's all the myths with the pagan gods having children illegitimately with human women to produce incredible god/men. This would have been attractive to many of the pagans, and we all know the church has a history of integrating pagan practices to bring people over to Christianity (Halloween/Samhain, Easter, Christmas/winter solstice, and others).

quote:Originally posted by Cadabra:

Tess,

The whole prayer or chant or whatever the fuck you just cited is dircted to Mary. You just proved him more rightererer.

-Abra



This particular prayer is a form of communion, NOT worship. Prayer can be either.

So no, my argument was consistent with my intent. If you don't understand what the adults are talking about, then don't chime in, kiddo.

[This message has been edited by Tesseract (edited 03-10-2005).]