Digital_Savior
2005-03-11, 03:12
Hi, all...
I just stumbled upon a very interesting article written by the Training Director of the Zacharias Trust in the United Kingdom, Amy Orr-Ewing. ( http://www.zactrust.org )
I am only going to post a few paragraphs that will illustrate the point of this thread. If you'd like to read the whole thing (which I obviously hope you will do), you can see it here: http://www.rzim.org/pdf/JTWinter02012005.pdf , along with many more intriguing viewpoints covering topics such as Spiritual Bankruptcy, Cultural Suicide, and the American Civil Liberties Union.
So, here are some excerpts:
"In some countries of the world the Bible is contraband. Smuggling operations exist with the sole aim of getting them secretly across closed borders and into the hands of those who want to read it. I will never forget getting off a train in an Asian country at four o’clock one morning and making my way to a rendezvous with three indigenous church leaders. A team of us were delivering bags filled with Bibles that were to be distributed amongst the churches farther north. When our friends unzipped the bags and looked inside, the tears began to flow down their cheeks. These books were so precious to the Christian believers that they were prepared to risk imprisonment and persecution in order to get hold of them. I found it intriguing that the Bible should inspire such sacrifice and courage in the hearts of those who want to read it...
You see, the astounding prejudice demonstrated here by highly intelligent people draws our attention to the skepticism with which the Bible is treated by many people in all walks of life. A conviction that the Bible must be wrong from those at the highest level of academic excellence seems in turn to have been embraced at a popular level by many people who have barely glanced at the Bible but who feel sure that it is not to be trusted...
In our culture, which many call “postmodern”, the experts tell us that people are not interested in truth any more, and they are certainly not interested in authoritative texts like the Bible. And yet time and time again questions about the Bible come up in our conversations...
The questions of today seem to contain nuances of pluralism and postmodernism. Yet after six years of working in the field of Christian apologetics, I have become convinced that if we are able to sensibly answer the concerns of the truth seekers we come across then many will be brought to faith in Jesus Christ...
When it comes to talking about the Bible, people have all kinds of questions and suspicions. Often the picture in the mind’s eye is of some strangely incoherent mystical writings that may be frightening. There is also the perception that religious people use the Bible to shore up their own causes, that it is interpreted and used to mean whatever a particular group feels...
The big issue behind the increasing numbers of questions about meaning and interpretation is the question of whether words and texts can have any inherent meaning at all. Does it all just come down to a matter of opinion ? Is every interpretation equally valid ? Can this text actually speak to me or do I make it mean what I want ?
...after the wedding my husband explained to me that the young woman had also found herself unable to lie to him. They had also begun to talk about God and at one point she had said, “The reason I am not a Christian is that I am studying English Literature, and I don’t believe that there is a ‘transcendental signified’, and so I could make the Bible mean whatever I wanted it to mean.” My husband asked her to clarify and she explained that she believed that words have no actual meaning—a word on a page or a word being heard only has the meaning that a reader or a hearer gives it. It does not itself carry any ultimate meaning because there is no God (or “transcendental signified”) to give ultimate meaning to words.
My husband looked at her and said, “If that is the case—words have no meaning except the meaning of the listener or reader—is it okay with you if I take what you have just said to mean ‘I believe in Jesus and I am a Christian’?” At that moment she looked a little worried. She realized that her argument failed its own test. The standards by which she was judging the Bible were not standards her own thinking could stand up under...
This issue of whether words have any meaning is incredibly important as we look at the Christian faith and as we offer the source materials about the life of Jesus—the New Testament Gospels—to our friends who do not believe in him. If the Bible only means what we make it mean there is no point reading it in order to discover anything about God...
Why do people believe that when it comes to the Bible everything is a matter of interpretation? It may help us to answer the question if we can first understand where these ideas about interpretation and meaning come from. In doing so, we must at least briefly wade through the sometimes difficult ideas of a few philosophers that have been embraced by popular culture so that we may in turn observe four critical challenges to the Bible. Yet you will note, like the young woman’s argument, each of these challenges are actually self-refuting...
First, the idea that there is no ultimate meaning in any text has become extremely powerful in our current postmodern context, and it has enormous implications for any communication about the Gospel. Literary theorist Roland Barthes writes, “[L]iterature...by refusing to assign a ‘secret’, an ultimate meaning, to the text (and to the world as text), liberates what may be called an antitheological activity, an activity that is truly revolutionary since to refuse to fix meaning is, in the end, to refuse God and his hypostases—reason, science, law.”
This statement echoes the strangely prophetic words of the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche: “We cannot get rid of God until we get rid of grammar.” But of course, in refusing to fix meaning or to ignore all grammar, it becomes impossible for even Barthes or Nietzsche to communicate these ideas! The desire to liberate the human being from the constraint of God is powerfully linked with this issue of language and meaning..."
Basically, this article presents the logical/analytical perception of Western culture in a much more eloquent fashion than I could have presented myself.
It is very well written, and she brings many good points to the "table".
As she is a literary extension of Ravi Zacharias, I would like to encourage you all to read some of his literature as well.
Some history on Ravi: " Mr. Zacharias was born in India in 1946 and immigrated to Canada with his family twenty years later. While pursuing a career in business management, his interest in theology grew; subsequently, he pursued this study during his undergraduate education. He received his Masters of Divinity from Trinity International University in Deerfield, Illinois. Well-versed in the disciplines of comparative religions, cults, and philosophy, he held the chair of Evangelism and Contemporary Thought at Alliance Theological Seminary for three and a half years. Mr. Zacharias has been honored by the conferring of a Doctor of Divinity degree both from Houghton College, NY, and from Tyndale College and Seminary, Toronto, and a Doctor of Laws degree from Asbury College in Kentucky. He is presently a Visiting Lecturer at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University in Oxford, England. http://www.rzim.org/ravi.php
To purchase some of his work (teaching, writing, etc.) you can go here: http://shop2.gospelcom.net/epages/rzim.storefront/42310b43085f7775271d45579e7c066c/Product/Specials
He is an extremely intelligent man. If you want to hear about Christianity from the viewpoint of a man who is not only well-educated, but highly intellectual, I encourage you to open your mind's eye to him.
The concept of this thread is simple (from my point of view): have any of you given the Bible a fair chance ?
There doesn't seem to be a single person on Totse that has read the Bible, and remained an unbeliever. (If you have, please speak up so I know who you are.)
If you haven't read it, how can you say that it contains nothing but contradictions, isn't relevant to our modern culture, and it can't be taken literally ?
Don't you need to know the text, before you can criticize it ?
As for me, I need to crawl back into bed, and sleep off this Demoral-induced waking coma I have been in for the past 48 hours.
Adieu.
I just stumbled upon a very interesting article written by the Training Director of the Zacharias Trust in the United Kingdom, Amy Orr-Ewing. ( http://www.zactrust.org )
I am only going to post a few paragraphs that will illustrate the point of this thread. If you'd like to read the whole thing (which I obviously hope you will do), you can see it here: http://www.rzim.org/pdf/JTWinter02012005.pdf , along with many more intriguing viewpoints covering topics such as Spiritual Bankruptcy, Cultural Suicide, and the American Civil Liberties Union.
So, here are some excerpts:
"In some countries of the world the Bible is contraband. Smuggling operations exist with the sole aim of getting them secretly across closed borders and into the hands of those who want to read it. I will never forget getting off a train in an Asian country at four o’clock one morning and making my way to a rendezvous with three indigenous church leaders. A team of us were delivering bags filled with Bibles that were to be distributed amongst the churches farther north. When our friends unzipped the bags and looked inside, the tears began to flow down their cheeks. These books were so precious to the Christian believers that they were prepared to risk imprisonment and persecution in order to get hold of them. I found it intriguing that the Bible should inspire such sacrifice and courage in the hearts of those who want to read it...
You see, the astounding prejudice demonstrated here by highly intelligent people draws our attention to the skepticism with which the Bible is treated by many people in all walks of life. A conviction that the Bible must be wrong from those at the highest level of academic excellence seems in turn to have been embraced at a popular level by many people who have barely glanced at the Bible but who feel sure that it is not to be trusted...
In our culture, which many call “postmodern”, the experts tell us that people are not interested in truth any more, and they are certainly not interested in authoritative texts like the Bible. And yet time and time again questions about the Bible come up in our conversations...
The questions of today seem to contain nuances of pluralism and postmodernism. Yet after six years of working in the field of Christian apologetics, I have become convinced that if we are able to sensibly answer the concerns of the truth seekers we come across then many will be brought to faith in Jesus Christ...
When it comes to talking about the Bible, people have all kinds of questions and suspicions. Often the picture in the mind’s eye is of some strangely incoherent mystical writings that may be frightening. There is also the perception that religious people use the Bible to shore up their own causes, that it is interpreted and used to mean whatever a particular group feels...
The big issue behind the increasing numbers of questions about meaning and interpretation is the question of whether words and texts can have any inherent meaning at all. Does it all just come down to a matter of opinion ? Is every interpretation equally valid ? Can this text actually speak to me or do I make it mean what I want ?
...after the wedding my husband explained to me that the young woman had also found herself unable to lie to him. They had also begun to talk about God and at one point she had said, “The reason I am not a Christian is that I am studying English Literature, and I don’t believe that there is a ‘transcendental signified’, and so I could make the Bible mean whatever I wanted it to mean.” My husband asked her to clarify and she explained that she believed that words have no actual meaning—a word on a page or a word being heard only has the meaning that a reader or a hearer gives it. It does not itself carry any ultimate meaning because there is no God (or “transcendental signified”) to give ultimate meaning to words.
My husband looked at her and said, “If that is the case—words have no meaning except the meaning of the listener or reader—is it okay with you if I take what you have just said to mean ‘I believe in Jesus and I am a Christian’?” At that moment she looked a little worried. She realized that her argument failed its own test. The standards by which she was judging the Bible were not standards her own thinking could stand up under...
This issue of whether words have any meaning is incredibly important as we look at the Christian faith and as we offer the source materials about the life of Jesus—the New Testament Gospels—to our friends who do not believe in him. If the Bible only means what we make it mean there is no point reading it in order to discover anything about God...
Why do people believe that when it comes to the Bible everything is a matter of interpretation? It may help us to answer the question if we can first understand where these ideas about interpretation and meaning come from. In doing so, we must at least briefly wade through the sometimes difficult ideas of a few philosophers that have been embraced by popular culture so that we may in turn observe four critical challenges to the Bible. Yet you will note, like the young woman’s argument, each of these challenges are actually self-refuting...
First, the idea that there is no ultimate meaning in any text has become extremely powerful in our current postmodern context, and it has enormous implications for any communication about the Gospel. Literary theorist Roland Barthes writes, “[L]iterature...by refusing to assign a ‘secret’, an ultimate meaning, to the text (and to the world as text), liberates what may be called an antitheological activity, an activity that is truly revolutionary since to refuse to fix meaning is, in the end, to refuse God and his hypostases—reason, science, law.”
This statement echoes the strangely prophetic words of the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche: “We cannot get rid of God until we get rid of grammar.” But of course, in refusing to fix meaning or to ignore all grammar, it becomes impossible for even Barthes or Nietzsche to communicate these ideas! The desire to liberate the human being from the constraint of God is powerfully linked with this issue of language and meaning..."
Basically, this article presents the logical/analytical perception of Western culture in a much more eloquent fashion than I could have presented myself.
It is very well written, and she brings many good points to the "table".
As she is a literary extension of Ravi Zacharias, I would like to encourage you all to read some of his literature as well.
Some history on Ravi: " Mr. Zacharias was born in India in 1946 and immigrated to Canada with his family twenty years later. While pursuing a career in business management, his interest in theology grew; subsequently, he pursued this study during his undergraduate education. He received his Masters of Divinity from Trinity International University in Deerfield, Illinois. Well-versed in the disciplines of comparative religions, cults, and philosophy, he held the chair of Evangelism and Contemporary Thought at Alliance Theological Seminary for three and a half years. Mr. Zacharias has been honored by the conferring of a Doctor of Divinity degree both from Houghton College, NY, and from Tyndale College and Seminary, Toronto, and a Doctor of Laws degree from Asbury College in Kentucky. He is presently a Visiting Lecturer at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University in Oxford, England. http://www.rzim.org/ravi.php
To purchase some of his work (teaching, writing, etc.) you can go here: http://shop2.gospelcom.net/epages/rzim.storefront/42310b43085f7775271d45579e7c066c/Product/Specials
He is an extremely intelligent man. If you want to hear about Christianity from the viewpoint of a man who is not only well-educated, but highly intellectual, I encourage you to open your mind's eye to him.
The concept of this thread is simple (from my point of view): have any of you given the Bible a fair chance ?
There doesn't seem to be a single person on Totse that has read the Bible, and remained an unbeliever. (If you have, please speak up so I know who you are.)
If you haven't read it, how can you say that it contains nothing but contradictions, isn't relevant to our modern culture, and it can't be taken literally ?
Don't you need to know the text, before you can criticize it ?
As for me, I need to crawl back into bed, and sleep off this Demoral-induced waking coma I have been in for the past 48 hours.
Adieu.