does anybody know of a religion based on the bible, that allows you to commit violence in certain cases? i will anyway, but i never thought that god told moses, it's wrong to kill. i've always believed that he said it's wrong to murder. i believe murder is killing for money, or self gain. justifiable killings are killing people for your beliefs, defence, and war (thats purpose isn't money, more holy war). the first thing somebody will say is "islam", and im not about to sell out christianity, like most black men today (wich im disgusted and ashamed of). most black men have grown up, with fairly strict christain backgrounds, and they sell out christains because "its the white mans relegion", and "im not worshiping a white jesus". when whites never claimed he was white, but middle eastern, he's wasn't black or white, he wasn't blond, he had brown hair, and brown eyes, like pretty much all middle eastern people. the only way i would consider islam, is if they believed jesus was the son of god. but they believe he was just a profit. i agree with what they say about killing though. they say "you shouldn't kill humans wich allah has blessed" wich is what i think, just not to kill humans wich jehovah has blessed.

holy means pure, but i think the "holy" bible wich most christians base there life around is not holy, but the watered down version of what god wanted us to follow. is it at all possible, that the quaran and the bible could have been mixed? and is it possible god didn't say you shouldn't kill, but rather, you shouldn't murder? i think god completly agrees with holy wars, and defense killings. i think killing and war is necessary to get rid of all these lunatic muslims.

And you think you have the spiritual insight necessary to determine when killing is acceptable ?

the end of time is coming. there will be a war. i doubt god wants us to be passivist, and lay down for evil like cowards.

"i will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, frome the beginning of revenges upon the enemy" moses



"when the lord your god brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and clears away many nations before you, the hittites, the girgashites, and the amorites, the canaanites, the perizzites, the hivites, the jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. and when the lord your god delivers them before you, and you defeat them, destroy them utterly. make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. deuteronomy 7:1-2

.. as for my enemies who do not want me to rign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence. luke 19:26-27



the god i worship is not a coward, but a warrior. he would never lay down and let his enemy have what he wants. man is modeled after jehavah. so i geuss im violent by design. and i dont believe most of these things, i believe the government feeds us about how the bible would never advocate violence, no matter what the occasion. jesus also says "dont believe i came here for peace, but to set man against his father". i believe he meant the enemy, wich is the corrupt world we live in, wich is our father.

You suck at life.

Atleast he puts effort forth into defending his views...something a good deal of humans won't do on any matter.

the religion youre looking for is...drum roll...christianity, just look at the crusades.

the catch, you have to have the backing of either a ruler of a totally christian empire, or the backing of the vatican, which youll never get so if your still gonna be violent, your going to hell...that sucks for you.

Infidels, beware. The angry black man has orders from God to send you to hell.

Reminds me of Scar from Full Metal Alchemist. The right hand of destruction :D

Once again looking for a religion that better suits your needs. I said it in your other thread, and I'll say it again, what is the point in even having a religion if you're just going to pick and chose the features you dont like, and do away with them? All you are looking for is support and justification to violence, how pathetic.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

And you think you have the spiritual insight necessary to determine when killing is acceptable ?

^

a smart mans pwnt!

quote:Originally posted by ATLgatbuster:

the end of time is coming. there will be a war. i doubt god wants us to be passivist, and lay down for evil like cowards.



yeah, he'd rather have us blur the line so that all distinction between good and evil is lost...

The end of time has been coming for a thousand years. You sound 12 so you lost all credibility murder/suicide time.

I don't remember a condition in "Thou shalt not kill". Before you interpreted Jesus, did you stop at "Love thy enemies" at all? Face it dude, the religion you are looking for doesn't exist. Become a politician.

Did you know that there's a verse int he bible that allows hristians to condemn non-christian relgions? I don't know what it is, but its there. I'll try to find it later...

"The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name. - Exodus 15:3

Judaism sounds like a fun violent religion.

im not trying to pick and choose relegion. the line between good and evil isn't blured. it's evil to profit off of war, it's evil to fund al queda, it's evil to almost wipe out my race with crack, and it's evil to sneak boxcutters and bombs onto planes, and have thousands of innocent americans killed. the north woods operation, wich kennedy was killed over was evil. it said that the cia could blow up boats, and planes filled with our college kids and soldiers, and say cuba did it. every major government in the world is evil, and they're all responsible for the things that have happened. and the presidents, congress, politicians, kings, and others are just the surface, of something terrible.

i believe all muslims need to die, and every major government in the world needs to be completely dismantled, or it will destroy the world. i believe alot of what we read in the bible is watered down, to keep us acting good. the only thing i agree with in the quaran, is where it says not to take the life of someone blessed by allah.

leapermessiah, who says this? it's interesting to know, but if the vatican knew the truth about this world, i promise you they would let people do that. but even without the backing of them, i believe if you truly die for god without any other motives, you get automatic access into heaven. but when i say this, i mean you have to be doing it 100% based on faith, if you have any other reasoning, besides beliefs, then i call that murder.

if you go look at the "conspiracy" forum, alot of that stuff is true. i've done alot of research on most of it. dont look at the stupid ones, but at the ones about illuminati, cia, and drugs. i promise if you do research on alot of these topics you'll find that our government along with alot of other countrie's governments are evil. dont expect everything on government owned news channels to be 100% truth.

You are one really disturbed person. What you're basically saying is that violence is ok if promoted by the Bible but it's evil if promoted by the Quaran (sp?). Crusades is ok but Jihad is not.

Do the suicide bombers go to heaven? They don't have any motives other than faith; they give their life for Allah. So they're not commiting murder when they blow up in public places. Nice job contradicting yourself.

I think it's time you started thinking. You cannot fight fire with fire. If you are pissed off with the evil of the muslims or of your government, then you don't add to it with your own evil, but you fight it at its creation. Why do muslims form terrorist organizations that pervert Islamic teachings? Maybe they are wronged? Do you know what's happening in Palestine? Do you know that USA embargos have killed millions of children in Iraq?

All of this is happening because of the oil. Quite simply USA cannot let the muslim nations exploit their oil and flourish. To this end, they install dictators like Saddam Hussein, support Israel to be a constant threat in the area and make deals with the filthy rich sultans to keep them from investing in their own lands.

So, which is evil is greater, the one that is the cause or the one that is the result? Supporting either one is not the answer. People have the greatest weapon against evil and it's called "vote". With vote you can pressure your government to the right decisions. But you need to be informed of what's going to the world. Don't take anything for granted, watch the news from different sources, surf the internet, learn to guess motives. If more americans did this, 9/11 would not have to happen. It's sad though that instead of delivering a wake up call, it just brought on cries for retribution. And the circle of violence goes on and on...

quote:Originally posted by ATLgatbuster:

the end of time is coming. there will be a war. i doubt god wants us to be passivist, and lay down for evil like cowards.

How do you explain the first coming of Jesus ?

And what of all the passages that command us to love our neighbor as we would ourselves ?

You seem to be pretty selective in which scriptures you hold near and dear to you.

quote:Originally posted by ATLgatbuster:

"i will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, frome the beginning of revenges upon the enemy" moses

Old Testament.

We are under the NEW LAW OF CHRIST.

Has this fact escaped your attention ?



quote:Originally posted by ATLgatbuster:

"when the lord your god brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and clears away many nations before you, the hittites, the girgashites, and the amorites, the canaanites, the perizzites, the hivites, the jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. and when the lord your god delivers them before you, and you defeat them, destroy them utterly. make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. deuteronomy 7:1-2

Again, that is all Old Testament stuff, and these were specific promises to a specific people made by God.

There is no commandment given by God to His people that says we ought to kill unbelievers.

Also, God ALLOWED these nations to be conquered. Without God's help, there would have been no chance for victory.

You are completely misinterpretting the text, to justify your own selfish desires.

quote:Originally posted by ATLgatbuster:

.. as for my enemies who do not want me to rign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence. luke 19:26-27

Do you know what a "PARABLE" is ?

PARABLE: A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson.

If there is one thing that infuriates me over all else, it is when people manipulate the Bible to support their own personal lunacy.

The Bible is not a Holy Book of war. It is a guidebook for us...to teach us how to love each other as Christ loved us.

The specific verse you reference in Luke is a part of a parable that Jesus is telling to dispell the misunderstanding that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.

A man of nobility decided that he was going to try and convince the people of a "distant country" to appoint him King by giving money to his servants, which they were to use towards his election compaign.

Except they detested him, and didn't want him to be their king.

So, they used the money to thwart his efforts instead.

It didn't work, and he became King anyway.

Once he had taken office, he called for the men whom he had given the money, to find out what had been accomplished with it.

Most of them told the King that the money had produced a profit. He was, of course, pleased with this news, and rewarded those men with authority over more cities.

One man said, "Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow."

This angered the king, and he replied, "I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow ? Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?"

Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas."

To which they replied, "Sir, he already has ten!"

So, here is what he decided: "I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

The purpose of that parable was to teach us that Christ is not going to establish his earthly kingdom any time soon.

The man of noble birth represents Jesus.

The "distant country" is Heaven.

The place that the King calls "home" is Earth.

When the King returns, the event that takes place is The Rapture.

How does this interpret into Christians killing unbelievers ?



quote:Originally posted by ATLgatbuster:

the god i worship is not a coward, but a warrior. he would never lay down and let his enemy have what he wants. man is modeled after jehavah. so i geuss im violent by design. and i dont believe most of these things, i believe the government feeds us about how the bible would never advocate violence, no matter what the occasion. jesus also says "dont believe i came here for peace, but to set man against his father". i believe he meant the enemy, wich is the corrupt world we live in, wich is our father.

Who said God had to be a coward in order to fulfill the Law ?

Another thing I need to point out is that God doesn't need US to do His killing for Him. If He wanted people to die, He could accomplish it on His own.

Again, I point out that He has commanded us to love our neighbors. We are to turn our cheek if we are struck. Nothing about those commandments tells us to resort to violence against those that reject God.

Our American government (if that is the one you are referring to) has very little, if anything to do with the Bible these days. It certainily doesn't advocate anything ! As a matter of fact, they are doing their best to remove it from our society altogether ! Where have YOU been ?

Your perception of the Bible is completely uneducated, at best.

And before you go around killing people, I think it would behoove you to go to a Bible school, so that you can learn what God is truly telling us in His scriptures.

You're going to find yourself in prison, without a valid reason.

You are also making Christians, and God, look bad.

You need help.

quote:Originally posted by LeperMessiah:

the religion youre looking for is...drum roll...christianity, just look at the crusades.

the catch, you have to have the backing of either a ruler of a totally christian empire, or the backing of the vatican, which youll never get so if your still gonna be violent, your going to hell...that sucks for you.



When man misinterprets the Bible and uses it as a justification for his sin, he is not being a "Christian".

Being a Christian is to believe in salvation through Jesus Christ, and nothing else.

Religions that man creates in order to provide support for his own selfish gain should bear no relevance on God at all.

The Crusades were a prime example of what men can do, when they use the Bible to justify their greed and anger.

That travesty has nothing to do with God, and His desires.

You're pretty ignorant if you think the two correlate.

And just to clarify, being violent isn't a one way ticket to Hell. The only sin that will send you to Hell is the disbelief in God's existence.

You should probably learn a little more about what you are saying before you try to pass it off as fact.

quote:Originally posted by unchewed_meat:

Once again looking for a religion that better suits your needs. I said it in your other thread, and I'll say it again, what is the point in even having a religion if you're just going to pick and chose the features you dont like, and do away with them? All you are looking for is support and justification to violence, how pathetic.

For once, I totally agree with something you have said.

That was very insightful.

Thanks for your input !

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

yeah, he'd rather have us blur the line so that all distinction between good and evil is lost...

No, that's Satan's goal.

*smiles*

Another thing I want to point out is that Christ himself asked us to consider how much harder it is for us to love our enemies, than it is to hate them ?

Isn't that what the world already does ?

How are we to show that we are different if we act the same as everyone else in the world ?

If someone ridicules you, and you return the favor, you are doing exactly what has been expected of you. It's easier to respond with anger...and makes you no different than anyone else in the world. (This is something that I personally battle with daily. It is my nature to lash back, and I fight it all the time.)

It is something every Christian battles with...it is so much more difficult to respond with love, in EVERY situation.

If you can find yourself loving only when you are being loved, then you are just like everyone else.

Jesus loved us, even until his death. He was beaten within an inch of his life, and then degraded in the most horrible way possible. Yet he loved us, still.

That is what makes him stand out....LOVE.

Even when we didn't deserve it.

Even though we don't deserve it now.

I wrote out a whole post for your ignorant self, but lost it, so I'll cut it short.

You don't have the right to call yourself christian, spiritual or even moral.

You wan't an example of christianity advocating violence? The crusades. The church was just used by those in power to justify murder, there was nothing christian about it.

In fact, it sounds like you'd love the crusaders, except for the fact that they'd kill your black ass.

You're EXACTLY the same as the ignorant hate filled 'muslims', that say they wan't all christians and jews in the world dead. Just another side of the same coin.

It's funny how sit on your computer, talking about how ghetto you are, and at the same time would wish death on people on the other side of the planet, who live a life of poverty and violence you couldn't even understand.

I grew up in egypt, so I guess you probably would love to see most of the people I grew up with dead. Again I repeat, if Christ were here (key word 'Christian'), he would strongly disagree with all that bullshit you spew.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

For once, I totally agree with something you have said.

Yeah, as if your new testament hasn't done the same thing.

Menaing what ?

If you took that statement as offensive, that wasn't my intention.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by great_sage=heaven:

You're EXACTLY the same as the ignorant hate filled 'muslims', that say they wan't all christians and jews in the world dead. Just another side of the same coin.



Ever notice how much God likes people

to kill other people in his name.

This goes for lots of faiths.

For Digital, are you sure Jesus was

talking to the same god?

Compare the OT god of tribalism, hell,

sacrifice, genocide and vengeance

with Jesus' god of love, peace,

forgiveness, tolerance, and humility.

Maybe Jesus' dad was Krishna or

Baal, or some new god.

The bible does mention other gods.

^Ever notice what I said about the crusades? It's not god that pushes for war, it's people using gods name.

People that should just grow some balls and admit their prejudice has nothing to do with god.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Menaing what ?

If you took that statement as offensive, that wasn't my intention.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

Haha, I was in no way offended, I was pleased.

But what I was saying is that I believe that Christianity was changed with the new testament to appeal to more people. I just thought that would be easy to understand, so I said it in an assholy way, rather than explaining it like this.

I wasn't really trying to be offensive either... well... I dont know. How can you be an asshole and not offensive at the same time? MY LIFE IS SO HARD!

www.landoverbaptist.org (http://www.landoverbaptist.org)

Err... It's called Judaism.

ok since i never get online anymore, im not gonna get into a debate about this. however, just in my defense, that was my point digital...why do you have to jump to conclusions by calling people ignorant, with out simply looking into what they say.

you say that being christian is beliving and being saved by jesus christ, and youre right, its sad no one else can see that point as clear as you.

but whenever i said CHRISTIANITY i meant the 'church' and the religion named chrisitanity...which, whether or not you wish to admit it, the RELIGION NAMED CHRISTIANITY has, PAST TENSE, been responseable for some very evil deeds. which is what point i was trying to make.

now that doesnt mean they (the religion) are directly responsable for murder and violence now...no that would be stupid for me to say since its obviously untrue. however it was a simple point that i was trying to make, which i feel is now clarified in the above paragraph.

and the statement i said about if youre gonna be violent your going to hell...i dunno if thats true or not...AND NEITHER DO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE, if anyone claims to know exactly what they can and cannot do in life then they are claiming to be god him/herself, since s/he was the one who passed down the commandments. you can look at them however you wish, its not in the bible how to read the bible is it?

so i guess you should probably think things out a little more before jumping back at people.

and i feel bad because we couldnt debate this a little more, but i probably wont be back on for another week or so.

quote:Originally posted by ATLgatbuster:

does anybody know of a religion based on the bible, that allows you to commit violence in certain cases? i will anyway, but i never thought that god told moses, it's wrong to kill. i've always believed that he said it's wrong to murder. i believe murder is killing for money, or self gain. justifiable killings are killing people for your beliefs, defence, and war (thats purpose isn't money, more holy war). the first thing somebody will say is "islam", and im not about to sell out christianity, like most black men today (wich im disgusted and ashamed of). most black men have grown up, with fairly strict christain backgrounds, and they sell out christains because "its the white mans relegion", and "im not worshiping a white jesus". when whites never claimed he was white, but middle eastern, he's wasn't black or white, he wasn't blond, he had brown hair, and brown eyes, like pretty much all middle eastern people. the only way i would consider islam, is if they believed jesus was the son of god. but they believe he was just a profit. i agree with what they say about killing though. they say "you shouldn't kill humans wich allah has blessed" wich is what i think, just not to kill humans wich jehovah has blessed.

holy means pure, but i think the "holy" bible wich most christians base there life around is not holy, but the watered down version of what god wanted us to follow. is it at all possible, that the quaran and the bible could have been mixed? and is it possible god didn't say you shouldn't kill, but rather, you shouldn't murder? i think god completly agrees with holy wars, and defense killings. i think killing and war is necessary to get rid of all these lunatic muslims.

defense killings are ok. Holy wars are for punishment (read your Bible).

Murder != good.

Capital punishment = good

The KKK is the only organization that is religious but also advocates killings.