Now, I myself is a Christian, and I do have a cross necklace. Not because it's intended for show, but it reminds me of what I'm about. Besides, I always keep it behind my shirt.

The thing I don't understand, is that I always see guys both in movies and in school that wears these cross necklaces around their neck. Do they find believing in Jesus is some kind of mainstream that rap or society is coughing up? For example, 50 cent has one, all he ever raps about is "bitches", "9's", and weed. And how about Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting that had did not even follow any of God's words. Or even Edward Norton in Rounders that gambled and was just way out of the Bible. Not just Hollywood and rappers, but more and more people who's never even read the Bible, especially gangsters, begin wearing it, and I assume it's because it's to show that they're cool. I can't find any other reason why.

I just really don't understand why people show that they believe in Jesus when their background is the complete opposite of what Jesus teaches. Can someone explain this?

I've been told that many 'gangsters' wear crosses to remind themselves that they have to face god for their sins eventually and that there is someone out there that will forgive them no matter what.

In addition, that shit about having to read the bible is junk. Most Catholics and Christians couldn't even read until a couple hundred years ago. The only people that could read were the upper class and the priests.

Edit: Why do you need a cross to remind you of what you're about? And why would you hide your cross behind your shirt? Are you embarrassed? Why not represent your religion?

Many people view the teachings of the bible as idealistic. Most people would love to live by the teachings of the bible, but in today's day and age it's damn near impossible. One of the main concepts of Christianity is forgiveness. If you confess your sins they are forgiven, regardless of your background. Even if they rap about bitches, 9's, and weed. Bottomline.

[This message has been edited by Eudaemonistic_SOB (edited 03-17-2005).]

my friend, its not just everyone wearing crosses, its preppy little sheep who have to follow the cool stuff.

now, i am a dedicated wiccan, i belive alot in symbols, i cannot remember what the cross stands for right off hand but belive it or not the cross is not reserved just for christians

I believe Matt Damon's character was an irish catholic, which would make it a natural part of his wardrobe. The movie doesn't have to be about religion for this to be logical. Same with the other movie, possibly, though I don't know for sure, not having seen it.

There is also the fact that the cross was around as a symbol for a long time before the christians adopted it. Since most people don't know this, however, and it has represented the religion for a long time, it probably isn't being worn for other symbolism, either.

People who wear jogging shoes don't necessarily jog, people who wear sweat suits aren't necessarily exercising, people who wear spandex aren't necessarily cycling.

In other words, people's choice of dress or adornment doesn't have to reflect anything deeper than that they feel like wearing it.

quote:Originally posted by make_me:

my friend, its not just everyone wearing crosses, its preppy little sheep who have to follow the cool stuff.

now, i am a dedicated wiccan, i belive alot in symbols, i cannot remember what the cross stands for right off hand but belive it or not the cross is not reserved just for christians

Status quo says the cross is a christian symbol. Sorry.

why pick out rappers and 'da cool guys' ...



everyone who wears a cross necklace is an idiot.

to paraphrase bill hicks, 'when jesus comes back, another cross is the last thing he'll want to see.'

besides, the j-man himself said somepin like this to the pharisees,



"Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

'These pople honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

You have let go of the commands of God, and are holding on to the traditions of men."

Mark 7:6-8

quote:Originally posted by make_me:

my friend, its not just everyone wearing crosses, its preppy little sheep who have to follow the cool stuff.

now, i am a dedicated wiccan, i belive alot in symbols, i cannot remember what the cross stands for right off hand but belive it or not the cross is not reserved just for christians

The point isn't what the symbolism that's behind the cross. The point is that the cross generally represents the belief in God and that people who wears it think it's a trend.

quote:Originally posted by AbsentMindedWitch:

I believe Matt Damon's character was an irish catholic, which would make it a natural part of his wardrobe. The movie doesn't have to be about religion for this to be logical. Same with the other movie, possibly, though I don't know for sure, not having seen it.

There is also the fact that the cross was around as a symbol for a long time before the christians adopted it. Since most people don't know this, however, and it has represented the religion for a long time, it probably isn't being worn for other symbolism, either.

People who wear jogging shoes don't necessarily jog, people who wear sweat suits aren't necessarily exercising, people who wear spandex aren't necessarily cycling.

In other words, people's choice of dress or adornment doesn't have to reflect anything deeper than that they feel like wearing it.

I loved the movie "Good Will Hunting", but I don't understand why he still commits so many crimes(stated in the courtroom) and is constantly in so much trouble when many parts of the Bible opposes of this so much. Seeing him as a very intelligent and open-minded character, believing in such things just seemed "too good" for him. There must be some parts of the religion that weakened him to admit to the belief in Christ.

Today, majority will say that the cross represents the belief in God. But, let's say that 50 cent is a really religious man. Now, through without logical knowledge, he can come up with the fact that everything that he's doing, from talking about sex to smoking weed, it would be just natural for him to stop. I just don't get why people can't understand the point of God, just through simple thinking.

Who are you to think you can "understand the point of God, just through simple thinking"?

Unless you're a Pope or Archbishop I think you should gain a shred of humility.

What I meant was simple concepts, such as love and forgiveness. One track, Tupac's rapping about pimps and hoes, and the next he's talking about his love for his mother. Then, he talks about his love for God. If he really does feel that way, why doesn't he just stop talking and doing what's opposing to God! Is it that hard? It just doesn't make any sense to me, that they don't even understand the concepts when they seem to go so deep in their lyrics.

The reason I use rappers as example because they look pretty pathetic with that bling bling necklace around their necks and don't know what the hell they're talking about. Not just the people from the Hip-Hop mainstream, but other people too.

Tupac was extremely well educated and he also studied religion extensivly during his time in prison. Bad example.

Tupac rapped about the things around him; such as pimps and hoes. How do pimps and hoes oppose God? Do I need to mention Mary Magdeline?

If you knew pimps, hoes, shooters, drug addicts, and dealers then you might understand the concept of good people doing bad things. Sadly you seem to be too sheltered to accept this concept. Just put your nose back in the bible and join the church.

It sounds like what you're saying is they shouldn't wear a cross unless they're perfect christians by your standards. If you're perfect, well and good, but that won't make you the judge of others.

Doesn't your book warn you about getting blinded by righteousness? By pointing out the things you think make them ineligible to wear their crosses, you are seeing the mote in their eye and ignoring the beam in your own. Or some such, I don't remember the exact wording.

If you suddenly realize you've done something wrong, do you take your cross off until you've atoned? Or, given that you feel it's so simple to live in accord with your religion, do you simply never do anything wrong?

I'm sure there are many people who believe in a religion or philosophy and know they fall short of their ideals. It doesn't mean they don't believe, or shouldn't be allowed to keep the symbols of what they aspire to.

like i said, his cross is a psychological extension of his religious beliefs, which he wears like a badge in vanity. he's worthy... stupid black thug rappers aren't.

Some of the things that people do just doesn't mix with the possession of a cross, and I don't quite understand the reason why. That's the best I can explain.

50 cent does it...SO SHOULD YOU!

instead of condemning them publicly, this is when you should be praying privately to your god, asking that you never have to understand the reason why, and thanking him for the fact that you don't.

Yeah, thank a ghost for keeping you ignorant...

quote:Originally posted by Eudaemonistic_SOB:

Tupac was extremely well educated and he also studied religion extensivly during his time in prison. Bad example.

Prove that he was educated...

quote:Originally posted by Eudaemonistic_SOB:

Tupac rapped about the things around him; such as pimps and hoes. How do pimps and hoes oppose God? Do I need to mention Mary Magdeline?

Mary Magdalen was not a prostitute, your comment is a common misconception.

I know this is off topic but were is that long ass joke about johva witnesses some dude posted the other day. I cant find it.

Tupac attended a variety of private schools throughout grade school. He also attended the Baltimore School for the Performing Arts. For an intercity rapper with no father around and a crackhead mother this is highly educated.

It also states in his biographies that tupac spent a majority of his time in prison in the prison church keeping busy by studying religion.

[This message has been edited by Eudaemonistic_SOB (edited 03-17-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Yeah, thank a ghost for keeping you ignorant...

it beats having him talking innane shit about the proper way to wear a cross.

hex, since ultimate understanding is the purpose of your life -- in your ultimate wisdom -- could you explain to me what it really feels like to climb a telephone pole and grab a live wire?

i want to know what it feels like, not just imagine it... but of course, i'm too afraid to actually do it - unlike you, who always prefers experience over ignorance, oh learned one.

Im from England and I havent seen anyone with a crucifix around there neck yet.

I have my small gold one either on the bracelet it came with or on a long (not heavy...very thin...taling 1/2 a mm) gold chain around my neck.

Basically because I am catholic. I carry it in my pocket alot aswell...and a rosary sometimes.

I know that people doesn't have to be perfect or a goody goody to wear a cross, but the least you can do is try. Wearing one reflects the sense of love and forgiveness upon yourself. I just can't understand the fact that so many people sin, but yet they still wear a cross, thus making the cross look like nothing. Intelligent characters such as M. Damon in "Good Will Hunting" has one and doesn't even try to be religious at all. It just seemed "too good" for him. But yet he still wears it and avoids any good deeds. http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

No, the least someone who wears a cross can do is not trying "to be religious at all".

quote:Originally posted by Eudaemonistic_SOB:

Tupac attended a variety of private schools throughout grade school. He also attended the Baltimore School for the Performing Arts. For an intercity rapper with no father around and a crackhead mother this is highly educated.

It also states in his biographies that tupac spent a majority of his time in prison in the prison church keeping busy by studying religion.

All right, I'll concede that he was somewhat educated... but "highly educated," get serious. That rappers "rap" (is that a word?) about their life experiences there can be no doubt. However when they "rap" about "pimps & hoes" they generally do this in a way that glorifies that particular lifestyle. Which is of course immoral and immorality is of course in opposition to G-d.

[This message has been edited by Maccabee (edited 03-18-2005).]

quote:Posted by make_me: ** **

my friend, its not just everyone wearing crosses, its preppy little sheep who have to follow the cool stuff.

now, i am a dedicated wiccan, i belive alot in symbols, i cannot remember what the cross stands for right off hand but belive it or not the cross is not reserved just for christians

The cross is a christian symbol. Whatever other beliefs may have a similair symbol are so small as to not even be counted.

Next they'll be saying "That guy on the crucifix, that could be anyone!"

I've got mine tatooed on, with toxic, India ink.

Once it bled through, and my shoulder turned blue/green, thought I was having a stroke or something.I'm getting it lasered off soon though.

I wear my Buddha chain every day. But I keep it uner my shirt.

No, not because I'm "embarassed"; hardly. It's partially because whenever I have it out, I get people asking me; "Oh, are you Buddhist?"; "Yeah, that's so interesting"; "I've always like Buddhism".

It makes me sad. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by tryss:

The thing I don't understand, is that I always see guys both in movies and in school that wears these cross necklaces around their neck.

I haven't seen anybody mention superstition as a reason. The cross is seen as a good luck charm. The appeal to gamblers and those who might be worried about something (rappers getting shot) is obvious.

This and the religious symbolism are the two biggest reasons for cross necklaces.

The movie and school appearances are fashion fads. The cross is a simple and aesthetic image - not hard to popularize. Wearing it makes a fashion statement as much as it makes a religious one.

quote:Originally posted by Sarter:

I haven't seen anybody mention superstition as a reason. The cross is seen as a good luck charm. The appeal to gamblers and those who might be worried about something (rappers getting shot) is obvious.

This and the religious symbolism are the two biggest reasons for cross necklaces.

The movie and school appearances are fashion fads. The cross is a simple and aesthetic image - not hard to popularize. Wearing it makes a fashion statement as much as it makes a religious one.

That's what I've thought all along, a fad. But just some people, it just seemed as though as if it's "too good" for them to be "enslaved" in a "imaginative god" in their definition.

There are crosses for other religions, even that predate Christianity, but the Latin cross is specific to Christianity.

quote:Originally posted by Eudaemonistic_SOB:



Why do you need a cross to remind you of what you're about? And why would you hide your cross behind your shirt? Are you embarrassed? Why not represent your religion?

I see my cross as a sacred object more than just a show-off jewelry. The cross wasn't very cheap either. Not that I'm embarassed, but simply because I usually keep things to myself.

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

to paraphrase bill hicks, 'when jesus comes back, another cross is the last thing he'll want to see.'

Bill Hicks > Jesus.

Ever heard of Fool's Paradise?

It's the place Christians go to instead of Heaven, when they believe wearing crosses, and other typed of religious articles, praying everyday, and attending church will get them into Heaven. And I will tell you they are mistaken, this is not what get you into Heaven. This is how all this 'cross-wearing', WWJD? crap started.

In particular, this is seen most in Catholics. It was once believed a long time ago that the Pope was the bridge to Hell (wondrous bridge-art pontifical), and the Roman-Catholic church was the fastest way to get there. I know this sounds harsh, but it's true. (not that the Catholic church is the fastest way to hell, but that Catholics were hated at one time by a lot of people)

So today people still wear crosses and stuff, some do it for various reasons (or claim to have it for a different reason), but I think they often wear it cause they feel more devout doing so. It's just more way for the church to make money if you ask me.

[This message has been edited by Aeon (edited 03-20-2005).]

So that whenever you see Baby Jesus, you'll be ready.

quote:Originally posted by Aeon:

In particular, this is seen most in Catholics. It was once believed a long time ago that the Pope was the bridge to Hell (wondrous bridge-art pontifical), and the Roman-Catholic church was the fastest way to get there. I know this sounds harsh, but it's true. (not that the Catholic church is the fastest way to hell, but that Catholics were hated at one time by a lot of people)

They still are, those people are commonly called "Protestants"

It's just more way for the church to make money if you ask me.

not all crosses are produced by the catholic church *roll eyes*. Tryss, rappers either simply like crosses, helps make a good image towards young kids who suddenly find christianity cool because 50 cent says so as opposed to him wearing a necklace that says fuck or something, and/or he could be a man raised as a christian and still feels the need to show that he believes in Christ despite what he does isn't exactly what the bible dictates. *shrug* go ask him

And Hex still hasn't replied to Eil.

Interesting.

I believe that wearing a cross is a form of idolatry.

I completely understand why YOU wear it, OP...to remind you of the sacrifice Jesus made for you. Nothing wrong with that, essentially.

But do you really need a 14k gold reminder ?

Or how about a pewter one ?

Or a .925 silver-smithed rendition ?

I don't find it relevant, or appropriate. No symbol should be prayed in front of (as they do in church), or worn as an adornment while representing the beliefs held by Christianity, in my opinion.

If you want a reminder, carry a Bible around with you !

The fish symbol is getting mighty popular as well, and while the concept is acceptable, the popularity has turned it into something God warns us about repeatedly. Idolatry.

The "golden calf" didn't start being worshipped overnight. It was a slow progression...a series of events and people that eventually brought it to the "worship level" it attained. I am sure the people thought they were doing nothing wrong by sacrificing sheep and women to it...

We must be careful to what we assign worth...a symbol is just that: a symbol. It means nothing, when you consider the spiritual magnitude of God in our lives. It serves only to cause us to take our eyes off of God.

I also think that if you are going to wear a cross, you should have the courage not to hide it. You can say that you aren't afraid of reaction all you want, but there is no way around it. For whatever reason, it is behind your shirt because you fear something. Rejection ? Judgement ? What is it ?

I don't wear a cross, and I never will. I used to, before I understood these things. It's a common error Christians make. It won't find you in Hell, but we must do all that we can to maintain healthy, fulfilling relationships with God. That means doing as He commands, to include avoiding idolatry. Every little thing that distracts us ends up being a tool for the devil to bring us down. (Yes, that is a far cry from wearing a cross around your neck, but one little seemingly innocent thing leads to another, and before you know it, you are sacrificing cats. *lol*)

Christ's sacrifice is branded on my heart, and I don't need candles, or incense, or little metal crosses hanging around my neck to remind me...

This is not about me tooting my proverbial spiritual horn. This is about personal growth in Christ.

I wish you the best in your faith.

God bless.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I believe that wearing a cross is a form of idolatry.

I completely understand why YOU wear it, OP...to remind you of the sacrifice Jesus made for you. Nothing wrong with that, essentially.

But do you really need a 14k gold reminder ?

Or how about a pewter one ?

Or a .925 silver-smithed rendition ?

I don't find it relevant, or appropriate. No symbol should be prayed in front of (as they do in church), or worn as an adornment while representing the beliefs held by Christianity, in my opinion.

If you want a reminder, carry a Bible around with you !

The fish symbol is getting mighty popular as well, and while the concept is acceptable, the popularity has turned it into something God warns us about repeatedly. Idolatry.

The "golden calf" didn't start being worshipped overnight. It was a slow progression...a series of events and people that eventually brought it to the "worship level" it attained. I am sure the people thought they were doing nothing wrong by sacrificing sheep and women to it...

We must be careful to what we assign worth...a symbol is just that: a symbol. It means nothing, when you consider the spiritual magnitude of God in our lives. It serves only to cause us to take our eyes off of God.

I also think that if you are going to wear a cross, you should have the courage not to hide it. You can say that you aren't afraid of reaction all you want, but there is no way around it. For whatever reason, it is behind your shirt because you fear something. Rejection ? Judgement ? What is it ?

I don't wear a cross, and I never will. I used to, before I understood these things. It's a common error Christians make. It won't find you in Hell, but we must do all that we can to maintain healthy, fulfilling relationships with God. That means doing as He commands, to include avoiding idolatry. Every little thing that distracts us ends up being a tool for the devil to bring us down. (Yes, that is a far cry from wearing a cross around your neck, but one little seemingly innocent thing leads to another, and before you know it, you are sacrificing cats. *lol*)

Christ's sacrifice is branded on my heart, and I don't need candles, or incense, or little metal crosses hanging around my neck to remind me...

This is not about me tooting my proverbial spiritual horn. This is about personal growth in Christ.

I wish you the best in your faith.

God bless.

Very nice. I respect your opionions and all. For various reasons, it helps me make better judgement and constantly reminds me of Christ. I'm still very young, and my knowledge of the Christ is still a baby. And to answer your question, I keep it behind my shirt, partly because of how so many people who wear it as a fad instead of extendency of Christ, it makes me look fake and dumb. Before, only a handful of honest people have crosses around their necks, and now there's a whole spawning mainstream groups wearing it. So I'd rather keep it behind and let people notice it and think of me rather than a 50 cent fan.

I would wear one because i was born a catholic, even though i have sort of lost my way, and i beleive that there is shit out there i cannot fight, only god/angels/constantine. So i would wear mine as protection. The only reason i dont is because imm too slack to go to a religion shop and get one thats been blessed and everything, otherwise its just so much brass.

Sounds crap, i know, but why not wear it if it might just save help you.

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

it beats having him talking innane shit about the proper way to wear a cross.

hex, since ultimate understanding is the purpose of your life -- in your ultimate wisdom -- could you explain to me what it really feels like to climb a telephone pole and grab a live wire?

i want to know what it feels like, not just imagine it... but of course, i'm too afraid to actually do it - unlike you, who always prefers experience over ignorance, oh learned one.

(Sorry, I sort of never looked at this thread again until now)

1. Ultimate understanding ISN'T the purpose of my life.

2. No, no I could not tell you what it's like because I wouldn't live to tell you about it...you're free to electrocute yourself with a stun-gun and then imagine the multiplied effects that a live wire would produce.

3. Understanding other people's reasoning behind the blatant misuse of religous symbols is a rather important understanding; it gives a great insight as to the general thinking of hypocrisy and what its end goal most often is (self-gain). You can't effectively work towards changing a problem you don't even comprehend.*

4. I'm not wise...perhaps more wise than a good deal of people on here, but I don't care about wisdom nearly as much as I care for happiness within myself and others. Taking yourself away from reality doesn't make you happy on any meaningful level...it makes you insane; I've found happiness through accepting and attempting to understand motivations for peoples' actions. Sure, some people may just be fucking crazy, but that's fine.

*This one's for someone to take out of context and switch around on me. You're welcome. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

And Hex still hasn't replied to Eil.

Interesting.

I thought the discussion would continue down the drain, so I didn't bother checking the thread again until now.