Look at monks, absolutely dedicated to their religion, live very modestly, no flashy clothes, bald heads, no electricity, no secular personal belongings, eat and live with just enought to get by.

Now look at the Pope. Limousines, gold EVERYTHING, huge house, flashy jewels, food, wine, etc.

I thought the Pope is suppose to be humble also? Doesn't the Bible say something about having all these riches? What is up with that? Well, it's obvious where all those basket donations go to...

Yeah not even jesus had all that good shit.

The organized side of religions, ie. the institutions, have always been hypocritical. Old news.

Thank you for pointing out something I have been saying for quite a while now...

The Catholic Church is much too big for it's britches, spiritually speaking.

"Let's all focus on the POPE. Screw what God thinks !"

*sighs*

It's sad.

Ah but Digital isnt the pope supposed to be a holy being to christians. A simble of god or something and yet you mock him. Shame.

Digital, Catholics do not focus solely on the pope. I thought you were smart enough to realize that. They did not put the pope in higher esteem than God.

You anti-catholic rhetoric is getting very tired very fast.

^^^ no napoleaan, yuo're not paying attenshion! yuo need 2 use yuor MINDD...1! teh poop is teh antichrist! i have teh proofz!1

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Thank you for pointing out something I have been saying for quite a while now...

The Catholic Church is much too big for it's britches, spiritually speaking.

"Let's all focus on the POPE. Screw what God thinks !"

*sighs*

It's sad.

Because anybody who disagrees with your equally subjective interpretation of an already ambiguous ancient religious text is wrong, right? Wrong.

Aeon: I kind of agree, but you have to understand in such an old organization there is bound to be a lot of ceremony (excess baggage, if you will). Look at the Senate; they're bogged down with technicalities and they're only 200. Imagine an organization nearly 10 times that old.

AngrySquirrel: "teh poop." That's gold.

The monkhood is older than the priesthood and the Catholic church, so that point is somewhat moot Mook.

The monkhood also didn't have to deal with society(for the most part, an occassional Viking raid here and there, but nothing too out of the ordinary...).

Most monks were pretty much left to themselves to be alone. The church on the otherhand was in the public eye where appearance is everything.

Two different circumstances.

quote:Originally posted by Fai1safe:

Ah but Digital isnt the pope supposed to be a holy being to christians. A simble of god or something and yet you mock him. Shame.

No, he is a symbol to those who make him into a symbol.

God designated no such person for us to idolize.

I don't mock him in particular...I mock Catholicism, for not being able to see the truth.

And what makes me angry is that they lead people astray.

I am a CHRISTIAN...of no denomination.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Digital, Catholics do not focus solely on the pope. I thought you were smart enough to realize that. They did not put the pope in higher esteem than God.

You anti-catholic rhetoric is getting very tired very fast.

I am smart enough to realize that, and much more than I am given credit for. So, pardon you.

And I never said that they focus solely on the Pope. For every saint, martyr, and dead relative the Catholics pray to, God feels pain.

I also didn't say that the Catholic church puts any man into higher esteem than God. Where did I say that ?

Your lack of understanding what I am actually saying is getting pretty old, too.

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:

Because anybody who disagrees with your equally subjective interpretation of an already ambiguous ancient religious text is wrong, right? Wrong.

It has nothing to do with whether you disagree with ME or not...and everything to do with being in agreement with what GOD says.

In their own doctrine they can be proved to be idolaters, and they ignore it, because it doesn't suit their selifhs human desires.

I love how everyone in here is so apt to defend Catholicism, when they haven't got the faintest idea what it, or Christianity, is all about.

I am right in saying that what they are doing is nothing short of blasphemy, based on Biblical doctrine.

If you don't believe that the Bible is the word of God, then my opinion shouldn't mean anything to you, now should it ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I am smart enough to realize that, and much more than I am given credit for. So, pardon you.

And I never said that they focus solely on the Pope. For every saint, martyr, and dead relative the Catholics pray to, God feels pain.

I also didn't say that the Catholic church puts any man into higher esteem than God. Where did I say that ?

Your lack of understanding what I am actually saying is getting pretty old, too.

You said this: "Let's all focus on the POPE. Screw what God thinks !" You even put it in fucking quotation marks, as if you actually said it. You know that isn't the case in the catholic society, but you said it anyways.

I don't misconstrue anything you say, however you misconstrue catholicism.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No, he is a symbol to those who make him into a symbol.

God designated no such person for us to idolize.

I don't mock him in particular...I mock Catholicism, for not being able to see the truth.

And what makes me angry is that they lead people astray.

I am a CHRISTIAN...of no denomination.



You assume that catholics idolize the pope, which they don't.

Also, what makes your unserstanding of the will of God more correct that the catholic understanding?

What's making me angry is the fact that you are lying about a valid religion. You say that idolize the pope, which they don't. You say they focus more on the pope than they do on God, which they don't. These aer blatant lies, which need to stop.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I am a CHRISTIAN...of no denomination.

You would have to be of one od the denomination other wise you are not a Christian just someone who has basicly the same belifs as them. Unless your going to create your own form of christianity. You wouldnt be the first.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

It has nothing to do with whether you disagree with ME or not...and everything to do with being in agreement with what GOD says.

The catholic church came up with the bible you're using (because of Constantine). Plus, I think they may have been studying it for longer than you.

[This message has been edited by Tesseract (edited 03-28-2005).]

The pope is just a fag who thinks he is a god but is really just some pedofille in a fancy house...

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I am smart enough to realize that, and much more than I am given credit for. So, pardon you.

And I never said that they focus solely on the Pope. For every saint, martyr, and dead relative the Catholics pray to, God feels pain.

I also didn't say that the Catholic church puts any man into higher esteem than God. Where did I say that ?

Your lack of understanding what I am actually saying is getting pretty old, too.

quote:Originally Posted by Napolean_Complex:

You assume that catholics idolize the pope, which they don't.

Also, what makes your unserstanding of the will of God more correct that the catholic understanding?

What's making me angry is the fact that you are lying about a valid religion. You say that idolize the pope, which they don't. You say they focus more on the pope than they do on God, which they don't. These aer blatant lies, which need to stop.





Wow there turbo(s), those be fighting words.

I agree with both of you, and disagree with both of you. Fail1Safe brought up a good point, and to add my own interperetation to the mix:

1. Any Christian should accept not only his brother Christian, be he Catholic, Gnostic, New-Age, Mormon, or any other.

2. Any Christian, regardless his denomination should follow Christ's commandments, no? Over and over again, we hear him say "He who loves me will follow my commandments. He who does not love me, will not follow my commandments." now the obvious question is, "What are His commandments?"

If you're thinking about those 10 verses written on stone, that Moses recieved, I think I've got a lil su'm su'm for you. The -only- Commandments Christ himself ever mentioned were the magical 2:

1.Love your God with all your your heart (Varying from "Mind Might Heart and Strength" to "Heart" and "Being" and a number of others depending upon your translation)

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

He doesnt say "Love your Christian neighbor as yourself." nor does He say "Love all Catholics as yourself." And no, He doesnt say, "Love all on your favorite forum as yourself." He says, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Sounds like a pretty non-biased statement, no?

So why dont we all whip out our trusty bibles, do a little study, and if nothing else, agree to disagree.

Cheers,



-Uncle Rusty

Note: The Bible used today is a compilation of different texts gathered, and bound under the name "The Holy Bible". Which means "The Holy Book". I know what you're thinking "Who gathered all the books uncle Rusty?" "Well, come sit on Uncle Rusty's lap, lemme tell ya a story."

100 some-odd years after Christ's death, (closer to 200 years) certain people in power realized that Christianity was on the rise. In order to keep their dominion over the people, an organization named the Naracean(SP, I apologise) Counsel began gathering Christian Gospels, and other Christian, and pre-Christian books.

Upon having many discussions about what should, or should not go into this new compilation to be titled "The Holy Bible", they excluded the majority of what is called the Apocrypha today. Including a number of Gnostic Gospels.

After it was all but decided, there was a final "proofing" process. The texts were set on an Altar, and the final word was, "What is here in the morning, will be in the bible."

This should make a great deal of sense to all of you who've studied the bible, and found where it's contradicted itself. Especially the mention of not only different Philosophies, but different Gods. We have Yahweh, Eloheam, Jehova, Jeaoshua (Ye-a-o-shoo-a), and of course, Father God, Christ(Son/Sun God, in some translations), and the Holy Spirit (Also called Spirit God).

Where it says many times in the old testament to be careful what you eat, and watch your diet, and refuse unhealthy food if it is offered to you, Christ on the other hand says "Go into a town, and eat what they put before you."

Where in the Old Testament (and times in the new testament) it talks about righteous men killing other men for whatever reason(I can't place it, but I remember one incident where the 'prophet' of the book scalped another man to use his skin as an example.) Christ says not to even lift a hand in self-defense. As demonstrated when Judas and the guards came for Jesus, and our belovedly zealous peter draw-sword and was off with one of the mans' ears.

Anyhow, I'm sure you get the idea.

One more thing.

"1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and designated Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,"

Here in Romans 1:1-4 it says that Christ was "descended from David according to the flesh, and designated Son of God in power according to the spirit." Thus it says, contrary to popular belief, that Christ descended according to the flesh. I.E. Sperm and egg. In another translation, It actually mentions the "Seed of David through Joseph" and another, "The Seed of David" etc. It says that He was born human, and was "designated" Son of God. A little something to think about, no?



[This message has been edited by Rusticus (edited 03-30-2005).]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1310000/images/_1310347_pope_ap_150.jpg

pope with t3h bling

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Thank you for pointing out something I have been saying for quite a while now...

The Catholic Church is much too big for it's britches, spiritually speaking.

"Let's all focus on the POPE. Screw what God thinks !"

*sighs*

It's sad.

wtf DOES god think?

if there IS a god(which there isn't) what makes you think you could even comprehend what he is thinking(if he thinks at all)

god is just something made up by people like the pope, to justify their enormous wealth and power.



it makes me want to burn churches down

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



And I never said that they focus solely on the Pope. For every saint, martyr, and dead relative the Catholics pray to, God feels pain.



quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I don't mock him in particular...I mock Catholicism, for not being able to see the truth.

quote:And what makes me angry is that they lead people astray.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

[B] It has nothing to do with whether you disagree with ME or not...and everything to do with being in agreement with what GOD says.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

quote:Originally posted by Fai1safe:

Ah but Digital isnt the pope supposed to be a holy being to christians. A simble of god or something and yet you mock him. Shame.

Shame? Hardly. Do you really believe that the Pope, some arbitrarily old guy nominated by other old men, has some other divine form of communication and relationship with God that nobody else has? Doubt it. There is no reason the Pope would or should be able to communicate with God on a higher level than anyone else. He is just come from a certain blood line who's family history has significant placement in Catholic history.

It is like how the queen of England and her kids are Princes/Princesses of England. But other than that, they aren't really anything other than a name. The parliament still bosses them around. They just have their titles from their bloodline, other than that, there's nothing special about them.

quote:Originally posted by deptstoremook:



Aeon: I kind of agree, but you have to understand in such an old organization there is bound to be a lot of ceremony (excess baggage, if you will). Look at the Senate; they're bogged down with technicalities and they're only 200. Imagine an organization nearly 10 times that old.



Yes look at the Senate...for every one of those major sessions they hold, it costs well over $300,000,000. You mean to tell me that everyone one of those people there NEED steak/lobster breakfast/lunch/dinner with vintage wines, the most expensive Penthouse stays, etc. All that is not neccessary, its BS!

Some of that 1/3 of a BILLION DOLLARS could be used to fund education, fix the huge Social Security issue, or be used for many other things. Bush has messed up Social Security, and it's pretty obvious there are some things he can cut back on, other than other programs.

I realize that sort of "life style" or whatever comes with the territory, but we are a democracy, a "people's government"...is that what you stand for? Is this what you want your tax money used for?

I personally think it's shit. And the pope is not any different. He just gets it all to himself.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:



You assume that catholics idolize the pope, which they don't...You say that idolize the pope, which they don't. You say they focus more on the pope than they do on God, which they don't. These aer blatant lies, which need to stop.

You are right. I grew up around almost nothign but hispanic people (mexican mostly), and they all are Catholic. And they didn't idolize the Pope....

They idolized the Virgin Mary!

What the hell?!?!?!

I atteneded many of those Sunday church meetings, mass, and various other things just to see what it was like. And they talk about the Virgin Mary as much or more than Jesus, and those two more than God himself!

Almost everyone of those Catholics also has statues of Mary, crosses with her holding Jesus, Jesus crosses, etc.

From what it seems, they almost worship Mary because she was Jesus' mother, which makes her important. This is the only religion I know of that concentrated so much on Mary. And it is not even known for a fact that she was a virgin. There is speculation she actually had a lover. I am not getting into that, but the point is Catholics do see christianity much different then others. I am not trying to rag on Catholics, because it doesn't mean they are wrong. But the Mary thing is true. Every Catholic church I have seen has Mary in it everywhere, just as much as Jesus or more.

quote:Originally posted by NightVision:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1310000/images/_1310347_pope_ap_150.jpg

pope with t3h bling

Have you seen his big crown or 'Pope hat'? It is bad ass, very bling bling.

The Pope is about to croak from age and sickness. Who do you guys think is the next Pope? Does anyone even know any of the cardinals or what they even look like? I don't, but there ceremony to choose a new successor is very occult like, and sacred. I think they ought to televise it for television ratings. I mean who wouldn't want to see their secret ceremony?

Oh...I posted this because he was on the news today. They were talking about him being sick, and they showed a ton of courtesy video of him shaking like hes in having seizure.

Let's say all the cardinals were strangely dead...how does the heirarchy work? Is it similiar to the US government? Or have they never thought of that? Just wondering if anyone has any insight to the inner working of the Vatican.

[This message has been edited by Aeon (edited 04-01-2005).]

http://people.howstuffworks.com/papacy.htm

I didn't read it but I assume that the answer is in there.