Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japeth; and unto them were sons born after the flood.

2. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

3. And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

5. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

So, here Gentiles are mentioned. I never really thought about it before, but I almost thought of Gentiles as Christians. But, I guess that's not the case since Christianity is probably thousands of years away still at this point.

6. And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

7. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Batah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah; and the sons of Raamah: Sheba and Dedan.

8. And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a might one in the earth:

Haha. His name is Nimrod. I wonder if he does something really stupid and that's where the term comes from.

9. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the might hunter before the LORD.

10. And the beginning of his kingdom was Bebel, and Erech, and Accad, and Oalneh, in the land of Shinar.

11. Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,

12. And Resen, between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.

13. And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim.

14. And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom cam Philistim) and Caphtorim.

15. And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth.

16. And the Jebusite, and the Am'orite, and the Girgasite.

17. And the Hivite, and the Akite, and the Sinite.

18. And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.

19. And the border of the Canaanites was from Dison, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza: as thou goest unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.

This is really difficult to keep track of, but knowing it's just a genealogy makes it a little easier. Many of these names sound distinctly Egyptian and there's the mention of Gaza. Just thought I'd take note of these things.

20. These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.

What is the difference between a country and a nation?

21. Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japeth the elder, even to him were children born.

22. The children of Shem: Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.

23. And the children of Ara,; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.

24. And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.

25. And unto Eber were born two sons; the name of one was Peleg; for his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

What do you think it means "his days was the earth divided"? That doesn't even seem to conjugate properly. I think it means that there was a lot of war.

26. And Joktan begat Almodad, and Shelph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah.

27. And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,

28. And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba.

29. And Ophir and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.

30. And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar, a mount of the east.

I assume they're talking about a mountain when they say "mount". Does anyone have an idea what mountain they might be talking about? The Himalayas may be?

31. These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.

32. These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Recap: The generations of Noah spread out all over the earth and build cities, cultures, and languages amongst themselves. It's hinted that there was a lot of fighting going on between the nations, but nothing it said outright so it may just be my interpretation.

Cheers,

Lost

Boriiiiing. Heh, I'll try to come up with something after school stuff.

So, here Gentiles are mentioned. I never really thought about it before, but I almost thought of Gentiles as Christians. But, I guess that's not the case since Christianity is probably thousands of years away still at this point.

It cant be Gentiles as we know them today because the Jews (which also were not called Jews back then) distinguished themselves as Jews belonging to the lineage of Abraham. Plus they became Jews after the Exodus.

IIRC the "Gentiles" were simply from a land named "Gent", maybe not with a j sound but a regular g sound?

What is the difference between a country and a nation?

Without looking it up in the Hebrew i suppose its the difference between a territory and a land with a ruler. But i dunno.

What do you think it means "his days was the earth divided"? That doesn't even seem to conjugate properly. I think it means that there was a lot of war.

If you believe in Pangea, this is when it probably split.

I assume they're talking about a mountain when they say "mount". Does anyone have an idea what mountain they might be talking about? The Himalayas may be?

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/sephar.html

Im not sure how trustworthy that site is, but there is your answer.





I really must applaud you for using the KJV though, most people write it off as archaic because they cant understand the words. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

So, here Gentiles are mentioned. I never really thought about it before, but I almost thought of Gentiles as Christians. But, I guess that's not the case since Christianity is probably thousands of years away still at this point.

The term "gentile" includes anyone that is not of Jewish descent.

quote:This is really difficult to keep track of, but knowing it's just a genealogy makes it a little easier. Many of these names sound distinctly Egyptian and there's the mention of Gaza. Just thought I'd take note of these things.

Do you understand the purpose of these genealogies ?

This line passes on down to David, which then passes on down to both Joseph, AND Mary, though through different lines.

This is how we conclude that Jesus is actually nobility, biologically speaking.

It also fulfills prophecy that Jesus would be born from this line.

quote: What is the difference between a country and a nation?

The best answer I can give for this is that the "nations" include many country's.

Perhaps their countries were smaller back then. *grins*

quote:What do you think it means "his days was the earth divided"? That doesn't even seem to conjugate properly. I think it means that there was a lot of war.

NIV says, "One was named Peleg, [a] because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan."

Amplified Bible says, "To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg [division], because [the inhabitants of] the earth were divided up in his days; and his brother's name was Joktan."

"...at the end of Chapter 10, and in Chapter 11, we are told that the world became divided, that a distinction was being drawn between good and evil, some behaving one way, some the other."

Please take a look at this guy's diagram of the genealogy...it is interesting, and exhibits the "division" that is mentioned.

http://www.solbaram.org/articles/gendiv.html

An alternate explanation is this:

"One example of this prejudicial influence is found in Genesis 10:25, which states that Peleg (meaning “division") derived his name from the fact that “in his days the earth was divided.” Geologists largely believe that, at some time in the ancient past, the continents formed a single land mass called Pangaea. The “continental drift” theory (now better known as the theory of plate tectonics) postulates how this land mass subsequently fractured into several separate units and proceeded to “drift” to the positions that they presently occupy. Accordingly, some Bible commentators claim that Genesis 10:25 refers to this very phenomenon (e.g., Garton, 1991; Sewell, 1990)."

http://www.apologeticspress.org/modules.php?name=Read&itemid=2163&cat=12

I don't believe this theory for a minute. There is nothing mentioned about the land moving around, which you would think would have been mentioned, since it wouldn't have been a "peaceful" event.

The author goes on to say, "Second, verses both before and after Genesis 10:25 provide further indication that Moses was referring to a linguistic/political/human division rather than a physical division of the land mass. Earlier in the same chapter, he alluded to a separation of the peoples—”everyone according to his own language, according to their families, into their nations” (Genesis 10:5, emp. added). Later in the same chapter, Moses referred to the generational divisions of Noah’s descendants “in their nations; and from these the nations were divided on the earth after the flood” (Genesis 10:32, emp. added).

Third, it is evident, contextually, that Moses provided a chapter of genealogical explanation (chapter nine) in order to set the stage for the Babel incident that follows immediately (chapter 11). Chapter nine functions as the link needed to bridge the account of the Flood with the next significant event of world history—the origin of humanity’s linguistic diversity (see Miller, Harrub, and Thompson, 2002). With no chapter break in the original autograph of Genesis, it is clear that “Earth” in the first verse of chapter eleven was used by Moses with the same meaning that it has in verse twenty-five of chapter ten. This conclusion is supported further by the allusions to national and linguistic separation in verses five and thirty-two of the same chapter."

quote:I assume they're talking about a mountain when they say "mount". Does anyone have an idea what mountain they might be talking about? The Himalayas may be?

Sephar means "numbering". It is supposed by some to be the ancient Himyaritic capital, "Shaphar," Zaphar, on the Indian Ocean, between the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea.

Mesha (middle district): A plain in that part of the boundaries of Arabia.

quote:Recap: The generations of Noah spread out all over the earth and build cities, cultures, and languages amongst themselves. It's hinted that there was a lot of fighting going on between the nations, but nothing it said outright so it may just be my interpretation.

The tower of Babel was a definite indication that man started to war amongst himself.

Just out of curiosity, why are you going through Genesis in this manner ?

First, I would think that of all books, THIS ONE wouldn't be the one to start with. Very dry, though loaded with incredible insights to the Christian faith.

Second, you're going through it from verse 1 on. Most people would prefer discussing certain aspects of Genesis, instead of the entire book.

I commend you, though...it's more effort to understand why you don't accept Christianity than most put forth.

*grins*

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-06-2005).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



Just out of curiosity, why are you going through Genesis in this manner ?[/qoute]

- Because I can't think of anyone else who has and it seems like something that should be done. I don't think enough people know what was really said and that they either just listen, unquestioningly, to their pastors interpretations or they don't bother questioning it at all. I just want to open a dialouge that delves beyond the obvious.

First, I would think that of all books, THIS ONE wouldn't be the one to start with. Very dry, though loaded with incredible insights to the Christian faith.

- I'm not doing this because it's fun for me. I mean, if I want to read for pleasure I'll read bloody Bukowski or Burroughs or something. I do this because it satiates my desire to learn and I feel like I'm contributing some kind of enlightenment (or facilitating, perhaps) something to humanity.

Second, you're going through it from verse 1 on. Most people would prefer discussing certain aspects of Genesis, instead of the entire book.

- That's the main problem. I think it's high time The People take a look at the bible word for word - annotated, on a level they can understand. A level that doesn't sound like preaching, like brainwashing, or bullshit. Something that sounds real.

I commend you, though...it's more effort to understand why you don't accept Christianity than most put forth.

*grins*

Thank you, but I very much do accept Christianity. I'm not here trying to prove anyone right or wrong. I'm just reading the bible, aloud, as I see it. I have my own, personal beliefs and have absolutely no interest in converting anyone in any way. I find spirituality to be a beautiful thing in it's purist form, no matter what the title.

The term "gentile" includes anyone that is not of Jewish descent.

- But, wasn't everyone of the same decent (technically) at that time?

Cheers,

Lost

[This message has been edited by LostCause (edited 04-06-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:





I really must applaud you for using the KJV though, most people write it off as archaic because they cant understand the words. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

- Well, I finally decided that if I'm going to start reading from a bible I should start with the Saint James Version, simply because it's the most widely owned/most popular.

Thank you, also.

Cheers,

Lost