Introduction

I've come to terms with my Christian background. See, for almost a year now I've been trying to practice Atheism and agnosticism, but something was missing. I've decided that there is a god. Just one. He is perfect. His personality is based on complete moderation. He is angry when it is needed, he is benevolent when it is needed. That said, he doesn't interfere with our lives.

So, why this drawn out revelation of sorts? Well, I was sitting in my backyard, just looking around at the pond, my mom's lovely garden, and the sky when I realized: science is too cold. There's no personality in it. If a god creating everything, that makes it, I don't know, somehow...communal? Everything is connected in someway. I've decided the strands of our lives are intertwined.

Life

Picture life as a woven blanket. My life is but a small, let's say red-orange, thread in this tremendous blanket. My thread, in this weave, passes over many other threads (lives). Let's just say (for personal and utterly superficial reasons) that my girlfriend's thread runs right next to mine (it's sky blue). Okay, that doesn't matter. Anyways, when we get to the end of the blanket, we die. It's a clean stop for some, but others threads are ragged, strung out and tattered for a great length, but they all end at some point in time.

Now, this blanket is going to have one odd, to say the least, shape, but just bear with me for a moment longer. Each thread is miniscule, frivolous, and seemingly unimportant, but without these threads, the blanket would be nothing. This living weave wouldn't exist.

People

Most people are inherently good. Modern ways have corrupted many people, though do not confuse this with technology, but rather modern ideals promoted by the wealthy, which are broadcast to the rest of the world through, of course, the media.

On to the God!

Okay, so this is just my view of things, but I see God represented in many things in this universe, but most importantly, I see him in the sun. Sure, they're are many suns depending what solar system you're on, but seeing as each person has their own God, each solar system in turn has it's own sun, etc. Think about it, you may call me a pagan if you like, but think about it, really. The sun provides us with almost everything we need for an empathic life. Without sunshine, we'd be but husks of our former selves. There'd be no true light, which would cut down plant life greatly, which could endanger human life gravely. So there's a physical aspect of it, as well. Now, I suppose you could have designated buildings with artificial sunlight for growing plants, and such, but these would have to be innumerous so that would be ridiculous (though important). Anyways...what I mean by true light is that sunlight is so much more inviting than say, the light that comes from one's lamp. It's literally warm, which induces relaxation (in moderation, which is a key aspect of my philosophies, if you hadn't picked this up already.), which promotes happiness, which can, possibly, promote feelings of well-being and benevolence.

Summary

So, in short: People are generally good. Our lives our connected like the weave of the life-blanket. God practices perfect moderation bent towards kindness. He does not interfere with our human lives, but he is represented through the sun.



Any thoughts?

Weren't you in here attacking Christians not even 2 months ago ?

Perhaps that was someone else...but I could swear...

*shrugs*

If you have found God, know that the angels in heaven praised the day you decided.

I wish you the best in your spiritual walk.

Agape.

Also, you're pretty off on your interpretation of God, since it isn't even the slightest bit based on biblical text.

Just thought you should know that...though I sense a bit of sarcasm in your post.

I could be wrong...but are you messin' with us ?

I have some thoughts.

Science isn't supposed to have 'feelings'.

Do you think the h20 molecule gets upset when you urinate in your toliet?

Do plants moan in pain when you don't water them?

But animals seem to exibit some sort of emotion, right?

emotion is just a way to bear to yourself and sometimes others your state.

Dogs get mad when you tease them with food or a toy. It's in their instincts to WANT food, but when you show it to them and put it ontop of the refridgerator... they get pissed, they bite you, they growl, they whine.

Humans are basicly the same way.

The human brain IS science however, but is emotion what makes us human? Or is it the ability to think? Can it be a strength or a weakness?

Answer.

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

So, in short: People are generally good. Our lives our connected like the weave of the life-blanket. God practices perfect moderation bent towards kindness. He does not interfere with our human lives, but he is represented through the sun.

I like the life-blanket analogy, but who does the weaving? In other words, are these pre-determined threads or free-will threads?

An interesting thing about the Sun is that it was created from the remains of larger stars. These precursors also created all the elements we find naturally on Earth from the base element Hydrogen. How would this fit into your idea of a solar god?

Digital_Savior, you are very pretentious in your monotheistic holier-than-thou posts. Maybe you ought to step back a minute and look at your posts, it'll help you realize why so many people hate not only Christianity, but Abrahamic Monotheism itself.

If you like to drive the highway and your friend likes to drive the back roads, do you automatically and continually preach to him about how the back roads are wrong?

Grow up (spiritually).

Digital Savior is sharing her beliefs with us. Your beliefs can be very intense and some of us aren't that great not only about articulating ourselves but about empathizing. I'm not saying that DS isn't empathizing, but when you believe in something very strongely it becomes very difficult to understand why others can't see what you feel you're seeing.

The bottom line is: none of us know. We only believe; and if we don't voice our beliefs we're just social tumors. The fact that DS is voicing what she believes without attacking those who differ from opinion, I think, is commendable. She almost always states her points clearly and never tries to "pwn" anyone and I feel she's an integral member to the board despite that fact I disagree with many of her statements.

It's okay to disagree, I think. And I'd like to state, for the record, that I'm not just replying to you - I'm saying this for the whole board, not just on behalf of DS, but on behalf of all of you and any of you who have an honest statement to make.

Cheers,

Lost

My life is but a small, let's say red-orange, thread in this tremendous blanket. My thread, in this weave, passes over many other threads (lives). Let's just say (for personal and utterly superficial reasons) that my girlfriend's thread runs right next to mine (it's sky blue).

I've had many similar revelations.

Usually they stop when the drugs

wear off. Give it a couple days.

you're pretty off on your interpretation of God, since it isn't even the slightest bit based on biblical text.

Hahahahaha. Ha.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Also, you're pretty off on your interpretation of God, since it isn't even the slightest bit based on biblical text.



Okay, I can see how this doesn't really follow Christianity, saying as I just don't follow the whole Jesus thing, but man, you've no right to tell me that I've botched my interpretation of God. To note, I didn't even say I was Christian, I guess "Coming to terms with my Christian background" meant something like "I'm sick of this lack of an entity". I guess you could blame the fact that I was stoned out of my gourd on opiates when I wrote this, but that's an overused excuse on totse, and it's still my responsibility for what I do when I'm on drugs.

quote:Originally posted by Sarter:

An interesting thing about the Sun is that it was created from the remains of larger stars. These precursors also created all the elements we find naturally on Earth from the base element Hydrogen. How would this fit into your idea of a solar god?

I didn't say the sun was God, I said God was represented in our physical lives through the sun.

quote:Originally posted by Omni-Max:

The human brain IS science however, but is emotion what makes us human? Or is it the ability to think? Can it be a strength or a weakness?

None of that makes us human. Dogs can show emotion, and dolphins can think. An excess of intelligence is strength, really, but an an excess of emotions can lead to problems, such as whiny, depressed teenagers, who actually just need to do some hard work once in a while.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:Weren't you in here attacking Christians not even 2 months ago?

If I was, it was more than two months ago. I'll almost say it couldn't have been later than, maybe September, when I stopped being a shit like that. I'm sorry if I was, but I've been pondering this whole religion thing for several months, and my girlfriend is a Christian (not a very good or virtuous one, but I don't mind http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)) so I wouldn't have made fun of Christians that recently.

And there's no sarcasm.

quote:

No foolin'.





Allow me to think about the threads when I'm in a clearer state of mind, please.



[This message has been edited by sellout_10 (edited 04-06-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Sarter:

I like the life-blanket analogy, but who does the weaving? In other words, are these pre-determined threads or free-will threads?



I like to think they're free will threads, but who knows, our actions could be "programmed" into our lives, you dig? I know, that's one crazy blanket, but I think you get the symbolism of it.

quote:Digital Savior is sharing her beliefs with us. Your beliefs can be very intense and some of us aren't that great not only about articulating ourselves but about empathizing. I'm not saying that DS isn't empathizing, but when you believe in something very strongely it becomes very difficult to understand why others can't see what you feel you're seeing.

The bottom line is: none of us know. We only believe; and if we don't voice our beliefs we're just social tumors. The fact that DS is voicing what she believes without attacking those who differ from opinion, I think, is commendable. She almost always states her points clearly and never tries to "pwn" anyone and I feel she's an integral member to the board despite that fact I disagree with many of her statements.

It's okay to disagree, I think. And I'd like to state, for the record, that I'm not just replying to you - I'm saying this for the whole board, not just on behalf of DS, but on behalf of all of you and any of you who have an honest statement to make.

The problem is that her "sharing" of her beliefs is degrading to other people. Just look at her post in this thread that says he is wrong in his understanding of God. That isn't just sharing your beliefs, that's degrading someone elses. There are Christians who can accept that other people believe in God in different ways, but she is not one of them.

Occasionally she has a good post, but for the most part, she only bashes other peoples beliefs masking it with her own. I don't see how you can view that as constructive. It doesn't even induce a debate, rather an argument.

If she was to say "I don't understand how you came about that view of God. According to the scriptures ____, so how did you come to your understanding?" it would be one thing, but she just flat out tells someone they're wrong. That is completely hostile, in my opinion, and deserves hostility back.

I'm not trying to attack you, either, because you're one of the posters I do respect here. I just don't see how you can find her second post constructive in any way.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

Just look at her post in this thread that says he is wrong in his understanding of God. That isn't just sharing your beliefs, that's degrading someone elses.





I kind of admitted that my view of God wasn't really a Christian view, I guess maybe you could call it monotheistic mysticism.

Congrats! Happy is the day when any man has found God for himself, I say.

I wouldnt go as far as to say it doesnt coincide with Christianity, but rather it doesnt coincide with most modern or widely accepted forms of Christianity.

I agree a great deal with most of what you said, and I myself am a Christian.

But where I disagree in my interperatation is of no consequence. Congrats! And I greatly greatly commend and admire your efforts at actually thinking.

It takes a mature person to do what you've done.

My very best wishes to you and your spiritual path http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)



-Uncle Rusty

The drug has worn off, and I still agree wholeheartedly with everything I wrote last night.

Thank you, Rusty.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

The problem is that her "sharing" of her beliefs is degrading to other people. Just look at her post in this thread that says he is wrong in his understanding of God. That isn't just sharing your beliefs, that's degrading someone elses. There are Christians who can accept that other people believe in God in different ways, but she is not one of them.

Occasionally she has a good post, but for the most part, she only bashes other peoples beliefs masking it with her own. I don't see how you can view that as constructive. It doesn't even induce a debate, rather an argument.

If she was to say "I don't understand how you came about that view of God. According to the scriptures ____, so how did you come to your understanding?" it would be one thing, but she just flat out tells someone they're wrong. That is completely hostile, in my opinion, and deserves hostility back.

I'm not trying to attack you, either, because you're one of the posters I do respect here. I just don't see how you can find her second post constructive in any way.

Point taken. I'll try to act accordingly.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

Digital_Savior, you are very pretentious in your monotheistic holier-than-thou posts. Maybe you ought to step back a minute and look at your posts, it'll help you realize why so many people hate not only Christianity, but Abrahamic Monotheism itself.

If you like to drive the highway and your friend likes to drive the back roads, do you automatically and continually preach to him about how the back roads are wrong?

Grow up (spiritually).

Like Lost Cause said, DS is sharing what she believes. I also believe the same thing. But yes, most people hate Christianity but only because we are mandated to point out there sin. And no one like someone digging out that skeleton in the closet http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

And if she went and said that the Bible says that he is wrong at Book chapter:verse and that she believes in the bible, then that also is degreding. Grow a pair and stop whining. You dont HAVE to read that post you know.

[This message has been edited by ArgonPlasma2000 (edited 04-07-2005).]

You are all nuts. Faith is pointless. Faith is false. If you want to believe in some pagan bullshit, go ahead. Still, it is a hell of alot better than some christian bullshit I've heard.

Why live your life by "God" when you can lead a perfectly good life doing what you feel is right?

Christians say I'm going to hell for being agnostic. That is why you are hated. Keep your beliefs to yourself.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Like Lost Cause said, DS is sharing what she believes. I also believe the same thing.

Hmm, I wonder if this post will be biased..

quote:But yes, most people hate Christianity but only because we are mandated to point out there sin. And no one like someone digging out that skeleton in the closet http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

I don't really know what you're getting at here.

quote:And if she went and said that the Bible says that he is wrong at Book chapter:verse and that she believes in the bible, then that also is degreding. Grow a pair and stop whining. You dont HAVE to read that post you know.

1. She doesn't.

2. He doesn't ask if it matches with the Christian God, so if she did, it'd be irrelevant.

What she posted was degrading because of the way she said it. You are clouded because you are also Christian and feel like I'm attacking her because of that: that's not the case. I am attacking her because she posted an inappropriate post, and maybe if you had a pair, you'd look past your own bias and notice.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

Digital_Savior, you are very pretentious in your monotheistic holier-than-thou posts. Maybe you ought to step back a minute and look at your posts, it'll help you realize why so many people hate not only Christianity, but Abrahamic Monotheism itself.

If you like to drive the highway and your friend likes to drive the back roads, do you automatically and continually preach to him about how the back roads are wrong?

Grow up (spiritually).

Sorry to break it to ya, but people hate God and Christianity because they want to continue to live without accountability.

They can't do that when God is tapping on their shoulder, now can they ?

It is pretty funny that you think I am holier than thou. Being a Christian doesn't make me holier than thou...you're just a scared little kid, and can't handle other people's opinions.

I very carefully think out every post I send on Totse. I don't need to look back.

I certainly won't stop telling the truth, just because 'malaria' doesn't want me to. I bother him, so I should change my entire being, right ?

I don't argue about which roads the driver of any vehicle takes.

That analogy alone seems uncannily fitting to your request that I should grow up.

Take your own pill.

Be sure not to choke on it.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Digital Savior is sharing her beliefs with us. Your beliefs can be very intense and some of us aren't that great not only about articulating ourselves but about empathizing. I'm not saying that DS isn't empathizing, but when you believe in something very strongely it becomes very difficult to understand why others can't see what you feel you're seeing.

The bottom line is: none of us know. We only believe; and if we don't voice our beliefs we're just social tumors. The fact that DS is voicing what she believes without attacking those who differ from opinion, I think, is commendable. She almost always states her points clearly and never tries to "pwn" anyone and I feel she's an integral member to the board despite that fact I disagree with many of her statements.

It's okay to disagree, I think. And I'd like to state, for the record, that I'm not just replying to you - I'm saying this for the whole board, not just on behalf of DS, but on behalf of all of you and any of you who have an honest statement to make.

Cheers,

Lost

It is a relief to hear that not everyone finds me to be the 'sore on the roof of your mouth that never gets better because you can't stop tonguing it'.

I don't expect anyone to listen to what I have to say, but I certainly am sick of the whining.

This is a forum for debate, yet people don't seem to like it very much when they are debated against.

But I'm used to it.

I'm the Christian.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:



Okay, I can see how this doesn't really follow Christianity, saying as I just don't follow the whole Jesus thing, but man, you've no right to tell me that I've botched my interpretation of God. To note, I didn't even say I was Christian, I guess "Coming to terms with my Christian background" meant something like "I'm sick of this lack of an entity". I guess you could blame the fact that I was stoned out of my gourd on opiates when I wrote this, but that's an overused excuse on totse, and it's still my responsibility for what I do when I'm on drugs.



Fair 'nuf.

When I hear the title 'God', and think of my own God, which is from the faith of Christianity.

I know no other God, because they don't exist.

That is my belief.

But you're right...YOUR interpretation of a god is very different, and I apologize for associating the two.

I did this only because you mentioned your Christian background.

My only point was, if you are talking about the God of the Bible, you're way off.

If you're not, then...I have nothing to say. It's your belief, and you're entitled to have it.

Peace.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:



If I was, it was more than two months ago. I'll almost say it couldn't have been later than, maybe September, when I stopped being a shit like that. I'm sorry if I was, but I've been pondering this whole religion thing for several months, and my girlfriend is a Christian (not a very good or virtuous one, but I don't mind ) so I wouldn't have made fun of Christians that recently.

And there's no sarcasm.



It is really hard to believe that I have been here that long ! *amazed*

But I do remember it.

Apology wholeheartedly accepted. That's very big of you.

And if you girlfriend is a Christian, she needn't be virtuous. It is impossible to be, as a human being first, and a child of God second. We are sinners by nature. Being a Christian doesn't change that. It just changes our perspective on the world, and how we should conduct ourselves.

But it doesn't seem like you are judging her for it, so I don't need to tell you to be easy on her for it.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

D_S, I don't see you as a sore. I see you as somebody who isn't afraid to stand up for their beliefs. That's badass. People lack that fire nowadays.

Oh, and IAC: Christians don't say you're going to hell for being Agnostic. They say you're going to hell if you're a sinner. They've made the it clear that you can still get into heaven without being Christian.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

The problem is that her "sharing" of her beliefs is degrading to other people. Just look at her post in this thread that says he is wrong in his understanding of God. That isn't just sharing your beliefs, that's degrading someone elses. There are Christians who can accept that other people believe in God in different ways, but she is not one of them.

Occasionally she has a good post, but for the most part, she only bashes other peoples beliefs masking it with her own. I don't see how you can view that as constructive. It doesn't even induce a debate, rather an argument.

If she was to say "I don't understand how you came about that view of God. According to the scriptures ____, so how did you come to your understanding?" it would be one thing, but she just flat out tells someone they're wrong. That is completely hostile, in my opinion, and deserves hostility back.

I'm not trying to attack you, either, because you're one of the posters I do respect here. I just don't see how you can find her second post constructive in any way.

You obviously have no intention of trying to comprehend what I post, since I am a Christian, and you have a personal problem with that.

I was very accurate in my conclusion about his post, since I was comparing it to the Christian God, which I believe in.

He mentioned his history as a Christian, so I assumed (wrongly, I see) that he was explaining the very same God.

If that were so, then he was completely off, because the Bible tells us exactly what God is like, and his analogy didn't come close to describing Him.

So, how is that holier than thou ?

How was that degrading ? I think you're a little too sensitive.

The Christians that accept what other people believe are WISHY WASHY CHRISTIANS !

The Bible warns us against being lukewarm. We must be HOT, at all times.

Just like the Christians that are incorporating evolution into their theology...not only are they compromising, they are second guessing their Lord. They are worse off than if they had never known God to begin with.

It is my responsibility as a Christian to make sure that the doctrine of the Bible is accurately understood. This is not a self-appointed task, this is commanded by my God. I wouldn't do it, otherwise. Believe me, my human nature doesn't like sitting here, or in the real world, being ridiculed for my faith. I would rather keep it to myself, but if I do that, I am being wreckless with the gift that God has given me: salvation. Not really fair to keep it to myself.

I truly appreciate your hypocrisy. You attack me for what I say, yet you do the very same thing. What you said to me was degrading, as is all your posts. You don't offer anything worth looking at, and expect that your opinions ought to be accepted.

Why don't you try and participate in the topic ?

All you've been doing lately is chasing me around, trying to ridicule me.

Silly.

You accuse me of being hostile, yet you respond to me with hostility, so how does this make you any better a person, or correct in your attempts at admonition ?

You're right...I respond with my own beliefs, showing how others are wrong in theirs. But this is only in contrast to Christianity, so I don't see how I am so off the mark.

I engage in debate quite a bit...a few of them end up being nothing but arguments. It's not what I intend, however.

My intentions are pure and good, though my humanity may tend to botch them up frequently.

A lot of the time, I know exactly why a person has come to the conclusion they have...not only by my own experiences outside of Christianity, but by observation of the world around me.

This is not about "I'm right and you're wrong.", though it may seem that way sometimes. It is truly about "I want to see you all in heaven, so here it is, as plainly as I know how to present it."

My second post was a hindsight sort of thing, since I reread the post, and found it to be possibly out of jest.

quote:Originally posted by Islanders Arnt Crazy:

You are all nuts. Faith is pointless. Faith is false. If you want to believe in some pagan bullshit, go ahead. Still, it is a hell of alot better than some christian bullshit I've heard.

Why live your life by "God" when you can lead a perfectly good life doing what you feel is right?

Christians say I'm going to hell for being agnostic. That is why you are hated. Keep your beliefs to yourself.

And I am accused of being degrading and hostile ?

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

D_S, I don't see you as a sore. I see you as somebody who isn't afraid to stand up for their beliefs. That's badass. People lack that fire nowadays.

Oh, and IAC: Christians don't say you're going to hell for being Agnostic. They say you're going to hell if you're a sinner. They've made the it clear that you can still get into heaven without being Christian.

Well, actually...no.

You can't get into heaven unless you receive Christ's salvation. That's the only thing you can do.

We're all sinners, even after we become Christian. The sin isn't what sends us to hell, it is lack of atonement for said sin.

And thanks. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

You're self-righteous whether you want to admit ir or not. You obviously think that you are right and everyone else is wrong. If you don't want to admit that, then fine, but with those posts above me, people can clearly see your sense of "enlightenment". You're worse than most atheists for Christ's sake!

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

You're self-righteous whether you want to admit ir or not. You obviously think that you are right and everyone else is wrong. If you don't want to admit that, then fine, but with those posts above me, people can clearly see your sense of "enlightenment". You're worse than most atheists for Christ's sake!

It is not self righteous to be right. It is being right.

It makes you feel better to think I am self righteous, because you are uncomfortable with my Christianity, which causes you to look at yourself in a way you don't want to. That's my theory.

I do think I am right and that everyone who doesn't follow the Bible is wrong.

That's why I am a Christian.

But that doesn't mean that I don't and can't respect other people's views on the world and religion in general. Of course I can...

But I can't ignore my passion for putting out the truth, since so many Christians can't seem to do that. Not only are the majority of them uneducated about their own faith (which makes you wonder at how they came to believe in the first place, not knowing anything about it), but they are naive about the world, at best.

Maybe I make my posts too much about me. I will be careful to pay attention to that in the future. I am not here for me...I am here for God.

And the posts above came from ONE person.

That's really convincing.

If being worse than atheist's means that I have conviction for my beliefs, and am not afraid to share them, then I thank you for saying that.

The glory goes to God.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, actually...no.

You can't get into heaven unless you receive Christ's salvation. That's the only thing you can do.





Yes, and he most likely will give this salvation to non-Christians, as well as Christians.

[This message has been edited by sellout_10 (edited 04-07-2005).]

It does mean that you don't respect other people' opinions and beliefs when you tell them that they are wrong, when you have no evidence to prove that.

I'm not uncomfortable with your christianity, I'm uncomfortable with your arrogance.

You refer to people not doing the things that you are doing as "uneducated". Is that a christian attitude?

You are worse than atheists in the sense that you think that it is your way or the highway, and that anyone who isn't with you is wrong and against you.

Looks as though there's been some very big talk behind my sleeping back. Big talk is all you really get from message boards, I suppose.

Let's start off with this Digital Savior:

I do not hate Christians or the Christian faith. In fact, what I find funny is that you seem to forget that everytime you attack Catholicism, I defend it. The reason for that being that you, as a Christian, ought to know more about your fellow Christians and stop being so insulting to them as saying they're all condemned because you've been buying a bit too much of the Southern Baptist KKK type propaganda. (By KKK, I am strictly referring to their religious viewpoints)

About growing up, I've done plenty. I've lived in 3 states, been to at least 5 countries. What have you done that's let you seen the world or even interact with people outside your circle of friends at the moment? I do not know you, but I am guessing from your posts that you have been sheltered your entire life. If I am wrong, by all means, let me know. It sounds to me, though, like you have some problem interacting with people.

quote:Sorry to break it to ya, but people hate God and Christianity because they want to continue to live without accountability.

I must say that I literally laughed out loud at this, and considering it's only 5 in the morning, that's a tough feat to pull off.

That is a completely juvenile response/"argument." There are more authority figures than God, let me tell you. Besides that, in America, the Christian God has lost most powers even over families who claim to be Christian. It's more a tradition now for many people, and the God has no real bearing on their everyday attitudes. That said, the ten commandments and other religious guidelines (which are common in most religions) can be found in the law of the land.

Everyone knows they will be punished here if they do wrong, they can see it. It's another matter of convincing everyone that they're going to roast in a pit of fire 'n brimstone. Scare tactics just don't work so great, especially considering people in times of great religious reign have even considered it'd be better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.

Try thinking about why they say that as people, outside of the box you've surrounded yourself with.

quote:you're just a scared little kid, and can't handle other people's opinions.

First, I'm not a kid. Second I fear for anyone who can't get past their own bravado, like yourself. Finally, I enjoy other people's opinions. The problem remains that many of your posts are more than just opinions: they're pushy and ignorant. You don't tell people they're going to hell, and you don't tell people they're wrong. After all: they're opinions.

quote:It is a relief to hear that not everyone finds me to be the 'sore on the roof of your mouth that never gets better because you can't stop tonguing it'.

I don't see you as a sore on the roof of my mouth. I am trying to get you to cut the shit and post like a normal person. You don't make debate, you make argument.

quote:This is a forum for debate, yet people don't seem to like it very much when they are debated against.

You're not debating a single thing. You're telling people they're wrong. Why wouldn't you expect hostility?

quote:But I'm used to it.

I'm the Christian.

This is as tired as the "race card." Give it up.

quote:But you're right...YOUR interpretation of a god is very different, and I apologize for associating the two.

I did this only because you mentioned your Christian background.

Could've saved a lot of meaningless posts if you'd just said that in your second post rather than what you did post.

quote:You obviously have no intention of trying to comprehend what I post, since I am a Christian, and you have a personal problem with that.

I feel it's worth mentioning again: I do not have any problem with Christians. Almost everyone I know is Christian, and if I truly had a problem with Christians, I wouldn't have any friends.

quote:I was very accurate in my conclusion about his post, since I was comparing it to the Christian God, which I believe in.

He mentioned his history as a Christian, so I assumed (wrongly, I see) that he was explaining the very same God.

How can you be very accurate, as you say, if you were wrongly assuming what he meant in the first place? You don't seem to understand that I don't care what you believe, I care how you are treating other peoples beliefs on the board. I don't even need to get on the idiots who flame Christians just for the hell of it, so many other people do it more efficiently. I get on you because no one else really says anything, and many of them are folding like paper cups simply because you are Christian on a largely non-Christian board. I do not go for minority games.

quote:being ridiculed for my faith.

No one is ridiculing you for your faith. Just your lack of tact.

quote:I am being wreckless with the gift that God has given me: salvation. Not really fair to keep it to myself.

If you really wanted to convince people, you might want to think of a different strategy. What you're doing right now is just what everyone hates: preaching. There is a difference between debating and preaching. Learn it!

quote:I truly appreciate your hypocrisy. You attack me for what I say, yet you do the very same thing. What you said to me was degrading, as is all your posts. You don't offer anything worth looking at, and expect that your opinions ought to be accepted.

I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe to Lost, that I feel I need to degrade you because you degraded someone else. Remember the golden rule? Well Christians have it to, you're getting what you give.

Another thing, I highly doubt you read any of my posts. I don't make posts about Christianity or Anti-Christianity, and I know how utterly uninterested you are in anything other than that. I'm glad to hear you think my posts are of no worth, considering your posts. I'd rather my posts not be as worthy as yours http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif).

quote:Why don't you try and participate in the topic ?

All you've been doing lately is chasing me around, trying to ridicule me.

Chasing would involve looking you up and reading only your posts, posting after all of them. No, I do not do that. I read topics just as you do, and it's hard not to notice some of your posts for how ignorant they are. Those are the ones I reply to. Get a clue, please.

Anyway, to the original poster, do pardon me for leading your topic astray, I somehow feel this is necessary, though.

quote:You accuse me of being hostile, yet you respond to me with hostility, so how does this make you any better a person, or correct in your attempts at admonition ?

*Sigh* I already told you why I am hostile to you. Look up "the golden rule." I don't even believe in the concept of being a "better person." What I am doing is an act of moderation (though I am no mod) because I see it needs to be done. You're one of the few who escapes being flamed for posting ignorantly, I am just making sure someone is on your case.

quote:My intentions are pure and good, though my humanity may tend to botch them up frequently.

(...)

This is not about "I'm right and you're wrong.", though it may seem that way sometimes. It is truly about "I want to see you all in heaven, so here it is, as plainly as I know how to present it."

First I am glad to see that you are acknowledging things getting botched up. That is what I am trying to get through to you. Your intentions are fine, it's your way of carrying them out that is not.

I'm flattered to hear that you're concerned about all of our well-being, but most of the regulars here are already well-educated in the realm of philosophy/religion, and don't need saving. If you insist, however, try to do so without being so damn pushy and offensive to other people's beliefs: that's what causes arguments.

quote:And I am accused of being degrading and hostile ?

You're not the only one. Like I said, though, most people like that are flamed before I even see the post.

Alright. This is a huge post. I feel it should be noted, though, that it's for a good cause. I mean, I think so.

Conclusion!

Digital Savior, It's nothing about your beliefs that gets me onto you, it's the way you go about it. If you truly feel like you need to save everyone, you might want to try a different forum, considering most people here are well-educated about religions in general. And I suppose that is all.

Add-on: *Thumbs up* to Napoleon.

quote:It makes you feel better to think I am self righteous, because you are uncomfortable with my Christianity, which causes you to look at yourself in a way you don't want to. That's my theory.

Huh, another thing that made me laugh out loud.

Plain and simple, your theory is wrong. (I know you're talking to napoleon, but I also know you apply your theory to everyone.)

quote:But that doesn't mean that I don't and can't respect other people's views on the world and religion in general. Of course I can...

You can't, though. You see, that's the difference between you and the lay-Christian. They have figured out, over centuries of pushing and prodding and general holier-than-thou-ism, that to respect someone else's beliefs, you have to accept that they're not wrong. You have clearly stated that you believe they are wrong.

quote:But I can't ignore my passion for putting out the truth, since so many Christians can't seem to do that. Not only are the majority of them uneducated about their own faith (which makes you wonder at how they came to believe in the first place, not knowing anything about it), but they are naive about the world, at best.

I don't want to get into the history of Christianity too much, but I hope you realize that what you said is terribly arrogant. There are many things about the story of Christ that many overlook simply because they are blinded by faith. Fact is, most of his story was copied near word for word from other demi-gods. If you're really that concerned in the truth, I should think you'd know where your own religion came from. Maybe that's what you're missing, though, that other Christians have accepted.

I think I have said my bit now (and it ought not be offensive enough to Digital Savior where she feels the need to reply to it), so if this topic needs closing, I would be glad to see it.

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

Any thoughts?

I thought your statement was very good at paying tribute to the realization that there are no firm answers (such as science would like to provide) and that once we accept this fact, then we begin to have some peace.

And then all the responses you got of course were promoting everybody elses answers that they think are correct. And then the arguing starts (as it always does) as everyone clings to their various truths.

I think you were promoting what Jesus was promoting (nothing to do with religion). If drugs helped you do it, that is because they help you balance out other influences in your life that effect how you think (foods, information, physical experiences) and you could just as rightly attribute your thoughts to those influences, as well as you could to the drugs.

[This message has been edited by bkc (edited 04-07-2005).]

Well, the drugs didn't really help me come to that realization. I knew that all on my own, they just helped me write it down in the way I wanted to.

Same comment.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

You obviously have no intention of trying to comprehend what I post, since I am a Christian, and you have a personal problem with that.

I was very accurate in my conclusion about his post, since I was comparing it to the Christian God, which I believe in.

He mentioned his history as a Christian, so I assumed (wrongly, I see) that he was explaining the very same God.

If that were so, then he was completely off, because the Bible tells us exactly what God is like, and his analogy didn't come close to describing Him.

So, how is that holier than thou ?

How was that degrading ? I think you're a little too sensitive.

The Christians that accept what other people believe are WISHY WASHY CHRISTIANS !

The Bible warns us against being lukewarm. We must be HOT, at all times.

Just like the Christians that are incorporating evolution into their theology...not only are they compromising, they are second guessing their Lord. They are worse off than if they had never known God to begin with.

It is my responsibility as a Christian to make sure that the doctrine of the Bible is accurately understood. This is not a self-appointed task, this is commanded by my God. I wouldn't do it, otherwise. Believe me, my human nature doesn't like sitting here, or in the real world, being ridiculed for my faith. I would rather keep it to myself, but if I do that, I am being wreckless with the gift that God has given me: salvation. Not really fair to keep it to myself.

I truly appreciate your hypocrisy. You attack me for what I say, yet you do the very same thing. What you said to me was degrading, as is all your posts. You don't offer anything worth looking at, and expect that your opinions ought to be accepted.

Why don't you try and participate in the topic ?

All you've been doing lately is chasing me around, trying to ridicule me.

Silly.

You accuse me of being hostile, yet you respond to me with hostility, so how does this make you any better a person, or correct in your attempts at admonition ?

You're right...I respond with my own beliefs, showing how others are wrong in theirs. But this is only in contrast to Christianity, so I don't see how I am so off the mark.

I engage in debate quite a bit...a few of them end up being nothing but arguments. It's not what I intend, however.

My intentions are pure and good, though my humanity may tend to botch them up frequently.

A lot of the time, I know exactly why a person has come to the conclusion they have...not only by my own experiences outside of Christianity, but by observation of the world around me.

This is not about "I'm right and you're wrong.", though it may seem that way sometimes. It is truly about "I want to see you all in heaven, so here it is, as plainly as I know how to present it."

My second post was a hindsight sort of thing, since I reread the post, and found it to be possibly out of jest.

It suddenly has become very clear that you will enver understand their problem with you due to your own steadfast belief. Niether will they, for their maleable though still just as strong belief about your faith as a whole. This is not personal, but realize that, jsut as we do about our own psots, you can be VERY offensive sometimes with the way you put things. It is our job as denizens of this forum to point these things out to a moderator whenever is necessary according to our own tolerances. The moderators decide from there but, this being Totse, banning is rarely an issue. The matter of the fact sin't that he tattled on you or became mad over your actions, but rather that you, like the rest of us (even those whom you jsut chastised (which is degrading as well)), are human, and as such, you can be jsut as unwashed and offending to our eyes as we are to yours on occasion.

And please, get the point of what I'm saying. I'm not trying to argue.

EDIT: To make this post relevant to the topic (something we're all losing in the zeal for meaningful arguements), I'm going to give you, sellout, a big thumbs up. While I certianly don't believe what you do, we share certain common threads and it's always good to hear that someone has found something to believe in, whether it be atheism or mysticism. Sorry about tacking this on the end of my post, but realize we are interested in what you said (or we would never have come to the thread), some of us are very glad for you, but that some issues arose.

[This message has been edited by Gorloche (edited 04-07-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

Sorry about tacking this on the end of my post, but realize we are interested in what you said (or we would never have come to the thread), some of us are very glad for you, but that some issues arose.



Issues arising in a religious thread is kind of a given.

Thanks, though.

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:



Yes, and he most likely will give this salvation to non-Christians, as well as Christians.



Why do you say "most likely" ? Can you explain that a little more ?

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

It does mean that you don't respect other people' opinions and beliefs when you tell them that they are wrong, when you have no evidence to prove that.

I'm not uncomfortable with your christianity, I'm uncomfortable with your arrogance.

You refer to people not doing the things that you are doing as "uneducated". Is that a christian attitude?

You are worse than atheists in the sense that you think that it is your way or the highway, and that anyone who isn't with you is wrong and against you.



I respect them just fine. Simply because I don't put paper and ribbons on my replies does not mean that I don't, either.

I am a very straightforward person. I don't beat around the bush. When something needs to be said, no matter how much it may hurt to hear it, I am going to say it.

That is not me trying to be disrespectful...that is me telling it like it is.

I have every evidence to prove that I am right...but it is more about who is ready to receive it, rather than my not being able to prove it.

And by YOUR mentality (that we should all respect each other to the point of bold faced lying and skirting the real issues) NONE of us should say anything to each other, since NOTHING in this universe is truly provable (change the standards, or the terminology, and everything we've come to accept as "fact" goes out the window).

Knowing that I am right does not make me arrogant. I'm sorry.

I don't think I referred to someone NOT being a Christian as being uneducated.

When I refer to someone as "uneducated", it usually is because they are spouting off their hate-speech about Christians and their beliefs, yet they know hardly anything about it.

I think that's BS.

That is like me trying to walk up to a group of African Americans and say, "Yo, my nigga's...whatchu think of my weave ? Dope, riiiight ?!! AHAHAHAHAHA !"

I am full blooded Irish. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

I don't see how my having complete, unadulterated conviction about my faith makes me "worse" than atheists. Most atheists I know HATE Christians...whereas I don't hate atheists. I feel sorry for them, because I know where they are going if they don't turn their lives around. I was there once...I know what it is to be in their shoes.

I didn't pop out of the womb a Christian, ya know. I have been through plenty in my lifetime, and I have also been a member of more than one religion.

While I do not claim to know everything, I do know enough to have a strong opinion about God. So, I do.

I also don't think that anyone who isn't going to heaven with me is against "me". I KNOW they are against God. That causes me to not only feel sorrow for them, but it also makes me want to try that much harder to help them understand.

I get your point, and I will try to be more sensitive in the future...but don't expect any sugar coating from me, because you'll be waiting in vain.

Thank you for your thoughts...they have been noted.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

About growing up, I've done plenty. I've lived in 3 states, been to at least 5 countries. What have you done that's let you seen the world or even interact with people outside your circle of friends at the moment? I do not know you, but I am guessing from your posts that you have been sheltered your entire life. If I am wrong, by all means, let me know. It sounds to me, though, like you have some problem interacting with people.

*laughs a little*

Well, that just goes to show what IS derived from the internet, as opposed to what reality is.

I am a mother of 3.

I served in the Navy for 4 years, and have been to 4 countries because of it.

I have been married, and divorced, and married again.

I grew up in a household of unloving, abusive people...and they still are.

I have been a network administrator for 7 years...I have worked at the telecommunications hub for the Atlantic fleet in Norfolk, VA, as well as for SPAWAR in San Diego (Space and Naval Warfare Center).

I currently do this job at Northern Arizona's largest and most technologically advanced medical center.

I have lived in 6 different US states.

I have seen death.

I have seen life.

I have seen the dark side, as much as I have seen the light.

You're right...you don't know the first thing about me, and for that, I cannot blame you. Ignorance is just that.

What I can blame you for is assuming that I have no reason to believe what I do. I also blame you for attacking my conviction. I have it...what have you got ?

I could reply to all the rest of what was said by malaria and Gorloche (because I don't agree), but...what's the point ?

You already know what I believe.

Your point has been taken...my tactics won't change, since they are written as the person I am, but I will try to be a little softer (hehehe...as a woman, that is an odd thing to say).

I am certainly not perfect, and it is not above me to hear it when more than one person has the same complaint.

For any of you whom I have offended, I apologize.

No strings attached.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Why do you say "most likely" ? Can you explain that a little more ?

I've grown up on the premise that nothing is absolutely certain. It's just a habit I have. I don't predict that somebody will absolutely do something because they might not I'd look like a fool.

It's my belief, however, that people who've led a good life, but don't believe in a God, will still get into heaven, regardless of their faith.

[This message has been edited by sellout_10 (edited 04-08-2005).]

Why do you believe that, though ?

Let's say, hypothetically, that some person in a third-world country has never heard of Christ. Let's also say this person has led a respectable life, albeit simple. Would God be so unfair as to keep this person from heaven? I think not.

I don't think Jesus was too worried about people believe in him, but more people practicing his message of compassion, understanding, peace, and love. God is merciful enough to grant pardon to those who practiced that message of basic humanity, even if they didn't accept Him as their God.

That is not a hypothetical scenario...people DO live in that situation, everyday.

But Jesus said that not ONE MAN will be without excuse in believing in him. NOT ONE ! That means, no matter the geographical location, and no matter the situation, every man that lives and breaths on this planet will have some sort of chance to recognize that there is a God, and either accept that, or reject it.

I must also point out that NO MAN is without sin...we are born into it, and therefore cannot live a life without it. It's just a part of us.

It is a lie to believe that God doesn't care about small sins, and that hell is reserved for "bad people." All sin separates us from God, even a “little white lie”.

Everyone has sinned, and no one is good enough to get to heaven on their own.

Romans 3:23 - "...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."

Getting into heaven is not based on whether our good outweighs our bad; we will all lose out if that is the case.

Romans 11:6 - "And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. We can do nothing good to earn our way to heaven."

Titus 3:5 - "...he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit..."

Matthew 7:13 - "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

Also, the Bible tells us that JESUS is the only way to Heaven:

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord."

Of course, I am basing my opinions on what the Bible says, and if you don't agree with the Bible, my point is moot to you.



[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

That is not a hypothetical scenario...people DO live in that situation, everyday.

But Jesus said that not ONE MAN will be without excuse in believing in him. NOT ONE ! That means, no matter the geographical location, and no matter the situation, every man that lives and breaths on this planet will have some sort of chance to recognize that there is a God, and either accept that, or reject it.

Also, the Bible tells us that JESUS is the only way to Heaven:

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

Of course, I am basing my opinions on what the Bible says, and if you don't agree with the Bible, my point is moot to you.



Digital, the problem is that you act as if you possess exclusive rights to the interpretation of the bible. "Everyone who believes in Him" can include people who have never even heard the name "Jesus". If you can't accept that, you greatly limit God's influence on humankind, you actually deny the connection between human nature and its Creator.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I could reply to all the rest of what was said by malaria and Gorloche (because I don't agree), but...what's the point ?

You already know what I believe.

Your point has been taken...my tactics won't change, since they are written as the person I am, but I will try to be a little softer (hehehe...as a woman, that is an odd thing to say).

I am certainly not perfect, and it is not above me to hear it when more than one person has the same complaint.

For any of you whom I have offended, I apologize.

No strings attached.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

So long as you accept that you can be offensive, I'm ok. That's all I wanted to bring up. And I'm done here.

quote:Originally posted by elfstone:

"Everyone who believes in Him" can include people who have never even heard the name "Jesus". If you can't accept that, you greatly limit God's influence on humankind, you actually deny the connection between human nature and its Creator.

Agreed. I should think that, seeing as you can split wood and find Jesus, he can be known in many different ways. Perhaps those people do believe in the same stuff as you, sans the actual names: for what reason would they not go to heaven? They would!

You cannot use language, a human construct, to bar people from heaven. It just doesn't work. What really matters is what is in one's heart and mind, along with their actions in life.

I've always been a generally good person, and I don't believe I will be punished after death.

[This message has been edited by malaria (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

You're self-righteous whether you want to admit ir or not. You obviously think that you are right and everyone else is wrong. If you don't want to admit that, then fine, but with those posts above me, people can clearly see your sense of "enlightenment". You're worse than most atheists for Christ's sake!

Probably not me though. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I'm not going to argue religion with you, DS. I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mind, so let's just leave it at that, shall we? It's not a matter of right and wrong, even, it's a matter of faith.