I've heard some people who believe that the book of Revelation is not divinely inspired. They say it doesn't fit and was added either (a) by man or (b) by devil.

Then again, I know a born-again Christian who is friends with my mother who swears by it. In fact, it's the only book she recommends non-Christians read, as she says it is what convinced her of the faith.

I'm kind of confused by this. I've been reading it over and over again, and I can see where the writing style differs, so maybe that's where they are coming from. I don't know, though.

So anyway, if you are Christian, do you believe it is divinely inspired? Or are you one who rejects it? Why? Also.. do you know anyone who believes the opposite of you about it?

John testifies that it was while he was in spirit that God sent an angel to reveal the secrets of Revelation to him. He was shown a dramamtic depiction of the end of God's plan of creation. This is a hard learning for someone who has not known his own spirit person. What does it mean to be in spirit?

Now, the problem that I have seen is the narrow focus on the book of revelation alone when it comes to end time prophesy. Jesus also told us the same things in the Gospel of Mathew,Mark,Luke and John but not as metaphoric. The book of Daniel also talks about end times and other books also add to it. The prophesy of the end of time is sprinkled throughout the many books of the bible and to get a full understanding of God's plan is to see the bible telling us of the begining (Genesis) the end (Revelation) and the plan of salvation that gives us a way to Him that is in between the two.

There is a plan that is being fulfilled but we do not have the proper perspectives to see it if it weren't for the word of God as portrayed through dozens of prophets through the centuries.

You can do a item by item comparison of the prophesy in Mathew24, Daniel 12 and Revelation to see that the styles are different (to show that they were written by different people) but in essence they all say the same thing despite the 2000 plus years between the writings.

If I had time I would prove it here but it would take up way to much space.

The armageddon was about the final battle between the Jewish people(the light) and Rome(the darkness). Not some kind of apocalyptic end of existence bullshit.

Read: Bloodlines of the Holy Grail

I believe that it is generally accepted that the man known as John(author of the gospel) did not write Revelations, but rather an apprentice or a disciple of his wrote it. So it could be questionable as to whether it would be considered "divinely inspired".

Revelations is largely unnecessary for anyone's faith or relation with God. If one is to accept it as God-inspired prophecy, then it will be fulfilled no matter what. I don't see how Revelations can "convince" you of your faith. Maybe it can scare you into believing, which is anything but a healthy faith.

Moreover, the symbolic nature of the text makes it very very inappropriate to draw moral or any other kind of guidelines from it. The symbolism here is used as disguise for a prophecy, it's not the same as Jesus's parables. I think that people who quote Revelations do it to scare others, not really teach them.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I believe that it is generally accepted that the man known as John(author of the gospel) did not write Revelations, but rather an apprentice or a disciple of his wrote it. So it could be questionable as to whether it would be considered "divinely inspired".



I only know that John testifies that it was him that wrote the book of revelation and I have heard nothing contrary to that until now. What is the source of your response? I do not intend to dispute it, I would just like to study it myself because it contends with the bible and I would like to recognize the authority of the dissenting view.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation

There is also a paragraph in my religion text(I go to a catholic school), which states that it is doubtful as to whether or not John wrote Revelation.

I'm not saying that he didn't write it, but from what I've seen, I don't think he did. I think it was a disciple of his he knew and imitated his writing style.

Hmmm...now I get your vehement resistance to my posts about Catholicism, Napoleon.

Interesting.

So anyway, if you are Christian, do you believe it is divinely inspired? Or are you one who rejects it? Why? Also.. do you know anyone who believes the opposite of you about it?

Obviously, I am Christian.

Revelation is just as important to Christianity as is the rest of the Bible. In my opinion, it is more so, because it tells us WHERE WE ARE GOING, and HOW IT WILL HAPPEN !

Revelation was the first book of the Bible I read, and it truly excited me, as a Christian.

I believe it was divinely inspired, because God says His whole WORD was divinely inspired. To say otherwise would be to insinuate that God didn't have control over how His book was written (in reference to books being added later, thus discreditting their validity ?).

I don't know any Christians that feel the opposite about Revelation.

John the Apostle was a great writer, and a beloved brother (not biologically speaking) of Jesus. I can see no reason why there would be any confusion about Revelations place in the Bible.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:



I'm not saying that he didn't write it, but from what I've seen, I don't think he did. I think it was a disciple of his he knew and imitated his writing style.

Why ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



Revelation is just as important to Christianity as is the rest of the Bible. In my opinion, it is more so, because it tells us WHERE WE ARE GOING, and HOW IT WILL HAPPEN !

I'm sorry but you talk with a certainty that makes Revelation be a very self-explanatory text which it isn't. You don't know where you are going and you don't know how it will happen because you cannot presume to understand Revelation and having cracked God's code. It's actually pretty safe to say that it could have happened already since noone has an accurate understanding of it. In any case, I don't see how this text has any importance for your faith.

quote:

Revelation was the first book of the Bible I read, and it truly excited me, as a Christian.



It is an exciting read for everyone. If it was the first book of the bible you read, can I presume that you were not a christian when you read it? What I really want to ask you is what effect did it have on your faith?

quote:

I believe it was divinely inspired, because God says His whole WORD was divinely inspired. To say otherwise would be to insinuate that God didn't have control over how His book was written (in reference to books being added later, thus discreditting their validity ?).



Well, I suppose that of all the books of the Bible, Revelation can be considered the most accurate because changing it has no impact to its effect. It doesn't matter how many heads the dragon has, as long as it's scary. And that's the useful effect of Revelation for the church. Besides, the curses in the end of the book for the one attempting to change the text would make him think twice.

quote:Originally posted by elfstone:

I'm sorry but you talk with a certainty that makes Revelation be a very self-explanatory text which it isn't. You don't know where you are going and you don't know how it will happen because you cannot presume to understand Revelation and having cracked God's code. It's actually pretty safe to say that it could have happened already since noone has an accurate understanding of it. In any case, I don't see how this text has any importance for your faith.

What do you mean ? Revelation is broken down very easily, if you study geography, and the other prophecies throughout the Bible.

It is widely accepted that the harlot that rides the "beast" in Revelation is the Catholic Church. I can go into greater detail about that, if you'd like.

The events in Revelation couldn't have happened yet, since the Rapture is the main focus, and certainly everyone with any powers of observation can attest to the fact that "millions of people" have not disappeared without a trace.

Since you don't follow Christianity, I wouldn't expect you to see the significance of this book to the Christian faith.

To US, it is very important.

quote:It is an exciting read for everyone. If it was the first book of the bible you read, can I presume that you were not a christian when you read it? What I really want to ask you is what effect did it have on your faith?

No, I wasn't a Christian when I read it the first time...you are correct.

The impact that this book had on me was that it was the first time I had actually considered the eternal state of "myself". Meaning, WHAT HAPPENS ONCE WE DIE ?

I was very young the first time I read it, and was under the common misconeption that I was invincible. Death is not something one thinks about often at the age of 11. You are "youth", and you are not susceptable to such things...you know what I mean ?

It was the first time I truly started thinking about something outside of ME.

quote:Well, I suppose that of all the books of the Bible, Revelation can be considered the most accurate because changing it has no impact to its effect. It doesn't matter how many heads the dragon has, as long as it's scary. And that's the useful effect of Revelation for the church. Besides, the curses in the end of the book for the one attempting to change the text would make him think twice.

Changing Revelation would have a dramatic affect on the outcome of Christianity. If there is no Rapture, for instance, we would then assume that we are all to suffer through the Tribulation, along with the rest of humanity. I think that's pretty important.

It DOES matter how many heads the dragon has, because it represents the different religions that will dominate the world.

The harlot is important, because without her, no one would be riding the beast. Each event and entity is representative of specific prophecies. Without one aspect, the rest would either change, or completely nullify itself.

The MISUSE of the book of Revelation has been a great scare tactic for CERTAIN churches, such as the Baptist church, and the Catholic church.

For those that understand God's love and mercy, it doesn't strike fear in them at all. It is the glorious return of Christ for his bride (the church), and his eventual conquering of Satan.

The plagues that will come in the end would be the same, no matter if it had been changed or not. Jesus is coming back a specific way, and not until after specific events take place.

Once again, this is all contingent upon actual belief. I mean, it will happen regardless, but I am not trying to insinuate that YOU should believe it.

Thanks for being objective with your questioning. Refreshing !

I agree with you that changing Revelation would have serious effects on Christianity. My point is that church has been using it to scare people and it's very effective at this as it is, there would be no reason to change it. Of course it matters how many heads the dragon has but it makes no difference to the effect desired by those who would change it.

When you say "widely accepted", do you include the catholics? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) There are many interpretations of Revelation out there and I doubt that any of them are correct. There is one that I find most appealing of course, but I am still not declaring it as absolute truth. One interesting detail of it is that Revelation is a self-fulfilling prophecy, meaning that its existence is the main reason for its fulfillment. We could lay out both our interpretations to kill everyone with boredom and fulfill the prophecy, yes? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I don't follow christianity, but I try to follow Jesus. From the Bible I attribute significance to the ten commandments, the gospels of the new testament and I enjoy Revelation for its literary value. The rest is pretty much spiritual garbage in my opinion. But this is irrelevant to the fact that Revelations doesn't hold any important "clues" for any christian's faith. Jesus's Word is all that matters for that.

Let us also note that one interpretation of the Book of Revelation is one stating the eventual success of the church over Rome, which was opressing the people at the time. The theory would explain a human response, sending a message along with the Word that everything would be ok in the physical world in the end without exciting the Romans too much that the early Christians could be planning a revolt, as they were punished for before. You can Google it for more info.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Why ?

Because I the book obviously doesn't really fit in with the "feel" of the rest of the new testament. When you read John, then Revelation, you notice a difference, or atleast I do, in the style. While John was written from a real perspective, Revelation was allegorical and symbolic.

I think they the early christians liked the book of Revelation, so they attributed it to John so the book would have apostolic authorship.

I very well could be wrong, but to me it makes sense.

John the Apostle and the John who wrote Revelations aren't the same person because John's Gospel and Revelations where written at very different times and if it was the apostle, he would have probably said something about Jesus' life.

Also, the reason it's written so metaphorically(sp?) was because it was written when the roman empire was after early christian. John wrote it with so much symbolism and so different to the rest of the Bible so that the roman's couldn't really associate it with the other books.

And to the people who doubt that it was the word of God, in the very first verse it says that God sent an angel to show John what will happen in the form of visions.