quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:



What Are The Fruits of Atheism / Secularism? (http://www.missiontoamerica.com/faith/atheism-influence-on-life.html)

This article relies on some rather sketchy numbers, one-sided anectodal evidence, and weak correlations between athiesm/secularism and ruined lives. Remember, correlations are not cause and effect. Where is the proof that athiesm or secularism caused an increase in adultery?

More believable correlations would be: fascism and genocide, increased news reporting and perceived social ills, and social involvement and life improvement.

quote:

What Are The Fruits of Atheism / Secularism?

You can tell what a person or world view is really like by looking at the fruits of that person or world view. Yes, there have been many good atheists who have done many good works that have benefited others. And there have been those who called themselves Christian who have done evil. But let's look at the overall worldwide fruits of atheism and secularism.

What are the good things an atheistic or secular world view bring us?

Genocide:

Christianity has the Crusades, the inquisition and witch trials. Although the Crusades might be considered warfare, and war was very bloody, we will include the Crusades. All total you could say that Christianity has killed maybe 1,000,000 people -- and I would argue as to whether these were really Christians who did this. For example, I would not call those who ran the inquisition Christian, and many of those targeted by the inquisition where true Christians.

How does the record of athesism and secularism match up to this? Let's look at just four 20th Century leaders:

Pol Pot (Cambodia): 1,700,000 killed

Hitler (Germany): 12,000,000 killed

Stalin (Russia): 35,000,000 killed

Mao Zedong (China): 100,000,000+ killed

You can add 45,500,000 to the above numbers. That would be the number of Christians who were martyred in the 20th Century. More Christians were killed because of their beliefs during just the 20th Century than Christianity has killed in all of history.

Changing Lives:

A leading Christian theologian and a leading atheist were to have a debate. The theologian challenged the atheist to bring just one person to the debate whose life had been changed for the better by atheism. The theologian said he would do the same. When the day of the debate came the theologian arrived with 100 people whose lives had been changed for the better by Christianity. The atheist did not show up.

It's not difficult to find someone whose life has been changed for the better by Christ. Marriages that have been saved. There are alcoholics who no longer drink. The sick and poor are helped. There are people all around whose lives have been changed for the good by Christianity.

Do we see the same for atheism or secularism? No. We see the opposite. We see broken marriages and lives ruined by adultery or the love of money. We see pain and suffering caused by the selfishness of others. We see sex outside of marriage resulting in children born with no father at home. We see millions of babies killed every year by abortion. More children are killed every year by abortion than Christianity has killed in all of history! The worst of it is that in a secular world we see all of these things as normal and acceptable.

Look at the results of a belief system and at how it has affected people's lives. Look at the historical evidence. What do you see?

You can either have blind faith in a system that produces pain, sorrow and death, or you can follow your creator--who made you and who knows what is best for you. (http://www.missiontoamerica.com/faith/atheism-influence-on-life.html)

Atheism improved my life about 50-fold. I had nowhere to turn, so I had to rely upon myself. I discovered after a mere 2 years of atheism the solution to my problems WITHIN MYSELF. While I am no longer an atheist, were it not for the absolute loneliness that immediately followed the loss of my faith in a god, I would not be as strong as I am today.

All this proves is that religion and effect are not related in a broad, universal sense. Some are better off for having no faith, others are strengthened by it. It is what is best for one's self that si msot important when valuing religions, not the interestes of others. One cannot ever truly quantify what would help others best.

This article is retarded. So much so, in fact, that it is not worth my time to point out the specifics of retardation.

It is interesting that in this article the good things attributed to Christians are sanctimoniously accepted at face value, while the bad things are questioned in such manner as

"I would argue as to whether these were really Christians who did this. For example, I would not call those who ran the inquisition Christian"

(although the Christian authorities of the time obviously did!)

Calling any Christian who does not live up to Christian standards 'not a true Christian' is a common way of denying Christian evil. If you are counting all those divorced, adulterous, etc. people atheists because a 'true' christian wouldn't do those things you are rendering your point meaningless. In essence, you are saying "I do not approve of these things, so people who do this are not my people, but yours" in spite of how those people would consider themselves.

If bad things are done by people who consider themselves Christians, in whatever historical or modern context, then bad things are done by Christians. Before claiming purity, you should excommunicate those you feel don't 'deserve' or 'live up to' the name.