Ya know, I was looking at some stuff and read that something like 51% of Americans believe that the End Times are at hand and are coming pretty soon.

Then I think back to the rest of this planet. Life has existed here for 200 million years or so. Has anything of the sort of a "Second Coming" where "God" comes down and takes every good thing up to heaven ever happen?

No,I don't think so, or else we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

It's strange, but the "End Times" believers REQUIRE the Earth to be about 6,000 years old, or else nothing in the natural history of the Earth has pointed to anything miraculous or armageddonish (with the exception of natural things) happening at all.

I don't know. I've just come to the realization of how little we really know about things. I believe life has been around for some time on this planet, and the human race as a species has existed for something like 20-30 thousand years.

...And we've only managed to map the entirety of the world we live on in the past six hundred years. Maybe twenty generations if that.

Well those are my thoughts at the moment.

Lemme know what you think about the End Times.

-Dust

The "End Times" you refer to is the Christianized version. There aren't enough numbers of any other faith to represent anything else, so, unless someone can show me numbers proving that statement false, I will take this from that stance.

Personally, I feel the "End Times" are not nigh. They are no nearer than they were 100, 200 years ago. The idea that the "End Times" are close has traditionally been a tactic used to scare followers into the faith. By promising eternal damnation if they don't act quickly, you are much more likely to snatch up the likely. All the "evidence" that is there to support has been in effect for hundred's of years. Does that prove concretely that we aren't in the "End Times" now? No. But does it mean that the evidence is true? Also no. Either of those statements would be a logical fallacy. Each is just as likely as being true.

I personally don't believe that there will be a religious end time. I do believe that this will all eventually end, but that is due to universal compression. I mean, I guess you could find that religious. I don't.

The prophecies spelled out for us in Revelation are coming to pass.

Would you like me to recite them for you ?

If not, I must say to remain uneducated about something you feel so strongly opinionated about is not only dangerous, but will catch you unawares.

ORIGINAL POSTER - Have you ever read Revelation ?

I prefer to be educated than not. Go ahead and lay it out for me.

And no, I can't say I have read Revelation. The book of the Bible, or the fictional book that seems to be very popular amongst Born Agains?

As for me, again it just seems silly that such a huge population should believe that our little stint on this planet should be any different than any other eon that has come to pass.

The only possible way for the Christian "Second Coming" is if the world is just 6,000 years old as some may claim. Personally, I like to think the proof for evolution alone is stunning, and have to accept it being several billion years old.

Furthermore I don't believe there's anything special about our species as a living species (absent our technology and soforth that has only made huge leaps in the past 200 years) that should merit some divinity coming down from some unseen place to kill most of the population.

I'll agree with Gorloche that we're no closer nor futher from "End Times" than at any point in history. Natural things can absolutely ruin anyone's day, and there's always the threat.

But still, I find it very difficult to see some rift in space and time opening up and some heavenly being saying "Oh, you've been good, you can leave this earth with me."

I think there's a greater chance of an alien invasion than that happening.

But unlike others, I'm willing to listen. Talk to me.

-Dust

Thank you, Dust...that's all I can ask. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

It is very logical to think the way you do about our existence. In some ways, to not know God is to know logic. That is not necessarily a compliment.

Revelation isn't very long, so I recommend reading it. Online Bible here: http://www.gospelcom.net

Anyway, here are the prophecies:

~ http://www.discerningtoday.org/members/Digest/1999Digest/October/already_fulfilled_prophecy.htm

Prophecies in other books of the Bible that have been fulfilled: http://www.raptureready.us/prophecy.htm

Ever since the crucifixion of Christ there have been those who have claimed that the second coming of Christ would occur in their lifetime. Obviously these proclamations have been wrong; Christ has not returned ! Yet one day those proclamations will come true.

************************************

PROPHECIES THAT HAVE BEEN FULFILLED:

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1. FALSE CHRISTS

Matthew 24:4-5 - "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (All scripture in The King James Version)

Never in the history of mankind have so many men claimed to be The Christ. Jesus warned in Matt 24:23-25 that this will actually get worse during the Tribulation as these false Christs will do miracles that would deceive even the elect if they had not been forewarned.

STATUS: Fulfilled.

2. BIRTH PAINS OF THE WORLD

Matthew 24:6-8 - "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows."

Throughout the ages there have been wars and rumors of wars as nations rise against nations. Everyday we hear of another war somewhere. There were an average of 170-190 ongoing wars in 1999 compared to an average of 150 during the Cold War. Worse, this generation has lived in fear of nuclear war and increasing terrorism. In spite of medical advancements and enough food for every person, corrupt governments and greed continue to result in famine and pestilence. AIDS now ravages humanity. Finally, the number of large earthquakes greater than 7.0 on the Richter scale has increased by two hundred percent in the past 30 years.

STATUS: Fulfilled.

3. TIMES OF THE GENTILES COME TO AN END

Luke 21:24 - "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

Jerusalem and the Temple were captured and destroyed by the Roman General Titus in 70 AD. This was prophesied by Jesus in Matt 24:2 and Lk 21:6. The Jews were led off into captivity allowing the Arabs to settle in Jerusalem and what had been Israel. The next 1900 years are known as the "Times of the Gentiles", which ended when Jerusalem was restored to the Jews in June, 1967.

STATUS: Fulfilled

4. DISPERSAL, AND RETURN, OF THE JEWS

Ezekiel 36:17-24 - Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. 18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them...

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land."

The prophecies made by Jesus about the Jews' dispersal among the nations and eventual return was prophesied in detail in Ezekiel 36 and 37. It is clear that the key event that was required before Christ returns is the return of the Jews to Israel after a nearly 2000 year exile. The Jews formed the nation of Israel against overwhelming odds on May 14, 1948. No other peoples in history have maintained their national heritage when dispersed for more than about 200 years, yet the Jews did it for 2000 years, and returned to recreate the nation of Israel, just as God had promised ! Quite literally, Jesus could not have returned until that happened.

STATUS: Fulfilled

5. FALSE RELIGION

2 Timothy 3:1-8 - "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with diverse lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."

While elements of this prophecy have prevailed throughout the centuries, and individual nations have exhibited most of these characteristics at once, never has there been a time when all of the world exhibits them to the degree that is now occurring, especially within the world leadership and elite. Examples are too numerous to list in this condensed discussion. The key is found in verse 5, where it is clear that a false religion exists that exhibits spirituality, but totally denies the sovereignty of God and Christ. Called New Age, it is based in Theosophy and is almost universally practiced by the world leaders and elite. It is being instituted through environmentalism, using false eco-catastrophes. It is sweeping the Western World and already prevails in Europe. It dominates the White House and many federal agencies, and is the official religion of the United Nations. It is steeped in mysticism and Gnosticism where "secret" knowledge denies the one true God and Christ. The roots of this religion can be traced back through Rome, Egypt, Babylon and supposedly Aryan Atlantis (Nazism was based on it). The reference to Jannes and Jambres is no accident; they are Pharaoh's magicians who opposed Moses.

STATUS: Fulfilled

6. Advanced Technology

Daniel 12:4 - "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

Never before in the history of mankind has this prophecy been fulfilled as today. Modern transportation, computers and the Internet allows us to literally run to and fro around the world, while incredible amounts of knowledge and information is but a pushbutton away.

STATUS: Fulfilled

*****************************************

PROPHECIES THAT HAVE YET TO BE FULFILLED:

*****************************************

These are the Prophecies that need to be fulfilled during the Tribulation that are occurring today !

1. One World Government & Ten Nation Confederacy

Daniel 7:7-8, 24 - "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.... 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom..."

Revelation 13:1, 17:12 - "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.... 12 The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom..."

These prophecies and many others (see Dan. 2:40-46, Rev. 17 and 18) tell of a One World Government made up of ten kingdoms. The United Nations, through the power of the world's banking families and systems, along with many international corporations, is planning a change in the UN Charter that would make it a world government, independent from and with absolute authority over the nations of the world. (See http://www.un.org/reform ). Documents on this site show that they hoped to have the one-world government in place by 2000 by creating a new UN Charter during the September, 2000 Millennium Summit. Club of Rome documents reveal that the world is being partitioned into ten economic/trade zones, which are patterned after the European Union (EU).

STATUS: Being Fulfilled

2. HARLOT CHURCH

Revelation 17:3-6 - "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."

Sponsored by the global elitist banking, corporate and foundation organizations, the world religion (see above) is being advanced through environmentalism, and with the ratification of the Earth Charter (see above), the New Age World Religion will be firmly in place. According to the UN Commission on Global Governance (http://www.cgg.ch), no one will be permitted to have a leadership position in the New World Order unless they pledge to uphold this new "ethics system" based in Earth Charter and United Religions. Biblical Christianity is hated by those promoting this new religion. Dan 7:21, 25; Rev. 17:6; 6:9-11; 7:14 clearly show that this religion will justify the slaughter of millions of Christians. UN documents and treaties demonize Christianity as being responsible for the world's ecological crises and the dominance of women by men. The EU is presently being heavily lobbied to consider Biblical Christianity as a cult.

STATUS: Being Fulfilled

3. TEMPLE REBUILT

Matthew 24:15 - "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand)..."

The holy place is the Temple. For this to occur, the Temple must be rebuilt. The site of the Temple is now occupied by the Islamic Dome of the Rock, one of the holiest temples of Islam. To tear it down would cause a holy war of unprecedented savagery. Yet, God says it will be rebuilt. While rumors abound that the stones for the Temple have already been cut, it is a fact that temple priests are being trained to perform temple duties and temple instruments crafted.

STATUS: Being Fulfilled

4. MARK OF THE BEAST

Revelation 13:16-18 - "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Until the 1970s, prophecy scholars could only speculate how this prophecy would be fulfilled. Not only is this technology now possible, it is here. Computer chip transponders half the size of a Tylenol capsule can be tracked by satellites and are commercially available for cars and pets to trace if they are stolen. Further miniaturization will permit them to be grafted under the skin and used not only for tracking, but also as an ID for buying and selling. It is interesting (not necessarily significant) that every IPC label is based on the number 666 and the numeric equivalent of www (for World Wide Web) is supposedly 666 !

STATUS: Being Fulfilled

On a final note...

START OF THE TRIBULATION

Daniel 9:27 - "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel 9:26 stunningly predicted the time of Christ's crucifixion. Verse 27 states that the tribulation will start when "he" (the beast or Antichrist) will sign a covenant with Israel. This covenant will most likely guarantee Israel's security. He will be a part of the new world government, but probably will not be well known at this point. It appears inevitable that someone within the emerging world order will soon be making a peace treaty with Israel. When it happens it will mark the beginning of Daniel's last week of the seventy weeks of years, and the beginning of the seven year tribulation.

STATUS: Impending Fulfillment

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-23-2005).]

In 100 years the fundies will make

new interpretations.

Personally, the same reason I don't believe in the end times comes to the same reason why I don't believe in Christianity. Revelation was the book that got me into and out of Christianity, so don't doubt that I know it and the prophecies contained within. I am more capable, despite your belief, to help people in the spiritual state I am in now than if i were a Christian, so if I am damned eternally by the world's universally accepted imaginary friend (some comedy, not trying to be mean) by doing my best to help the world, then I will burn forever in peace knowing that my punishment is wrought of jealousy for my eternal soul and not over my actions.

Also, a little look back through time would show that several periods of time have fit the prerequisites for the rapture. Not trying to prove it wrong by that, for that would be fallacy, but it is interesting to note. WWII contained more than a few prophecies fulfilled.

[i]While elements of this prophecy have prevailed throughout the centuries, and individual nations have exhibited most of these characteristics at once, never has there been a time when all of the world exhibits them to the degree that is now occurring, especially within the world leadership and elite. Examples are too numerous to list in this condensed discussion. The key is found in verse 5, where it is clear that a false religion exists that exhibits spirituality, but totally denies the sovereignty of God and Christ. Called New Age, it is based in Theosophy and is almost universally practiced by the world leaders and elite. It is being instituted through environmentalism, using false eco-catastrophes. It is sweeping the Western World and already prevails in Europe. It dominates the White House and many federal agencies, and is the official religion of the United Nations. It is steeped in mysticism and Gnosticism where "secret" knowledge denies the one true God and Christ. The roots of this religion can be traced back through Rome, Egypt, Babylon and supposedly Aryan Atlantis (Nazism was based on it). The reference to Jannes and Jambres is no accident; they are Pharaoh's magicians who opposed Moses.<[i]

Umm.... DS... I really hope you read all that before you posted it.

Because it looks to me like WatchTower Magazine tripe.

"Oh my god it's the new world order!!!! BARCODES ARE THE MARK OF THE BEAST"

The Official religion of the UN???

Since when?

:S

Most world leaders are of this religion?

I would have thought that most world leaders don't give much of a shit, and pay lip service to whatever religion will get them the votes.



Seriously.... next thing they are going to bring up the Illuminati... or maybe the Freemasons.

[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 04-25-2005).]

It's not a religion. It's a government.

It is intelligent to assume that the chips will be "the mark" of the beast, not conspiracy theorism.

It makes perfect sense.

And yes, I read every word of everything I post. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

It's not a religion. It's a government.

It is intelligent to assume that the chips will be "the mark" of the beast, not conspiracy theorism.

It makes perfect sense.

And yes, I read every word of everything I post. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Just Checking... buut....

While elements of this prophecy have prevailed throughout the centuries, and individual nations have exhibited most of these characteristics at once, never has there been a time when all of the world exhibits them to the degree that is now occurring, especially within the world leadership and elite. Examples are too numerous to list in this condensed discussion. The key is found in verse 5, where it is clear that a false religion exists that exhibits spirituality, but totally denies the sovereignty of God and Christ. Called New Age, it is based in Theosophy and is almost universally practiced by the world leaders and elite. It is being instituted through environmentalism, using false eco-catastrophes. It is sweeping the Western World and already prevails in Europe. It dominates the White House and many federal agencies, and is the official religion of the United Nations. It is steeped in mysticism and Gnosticism where "secret" knowledge denies the one true God and Christ. The roots of this religion can be traced back through Rome, Egypt, Babylon and supposedly Aryan Atlantis (Nazism was based on it). The reference to Jannes and Jambres is no accident; they are Pharaoh's magicians who opposed Moses.

That seems a lot more like a religion then Goverment. And it's exactly the "evil religion" that the Masonic Conspiracy buffs can't get enough of fearmongering about.





Sponsored by the global elitist banking, corporate and foundation organizations, the world religion (see above) is being advanced through environmentalism, and with the ratification of the Earth Charter (see above), the New Age World Religion will be firmly in place. According to the UN Commission on Global Governance (http://www.cgg.ch), no one will be permitted to have a leadership position in the New World Order unless they pledge to uphold this new "ethics system" based in Earth Charter and United Religions. Biblical Christianity is hated by those promoting this new religion. Dan 7:21, 25; Rev. 17:6; 6:9-11; 7:14 clearly show that this religion will justify the slaughter of millions of Christians. UN documents and treaties demonize Christianity as being responsible for the world's ecological crises and the dominance of women by men. The EU is presently being heavily lobbied to consider Biblical Christianity as a cult.

It seems a lot like people paranoid about neo-paganism crazies.

It pretty clearly makes out that there will be some "new age relgion"

I'm trying to have a go at you, I just really don't think this is really credible.

ZOG is taking over the world http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

News flash: people have been saying this for 2000 years

When Jesus was alive, his followers wanted to believe that he was the Messiah (I'm NOT going to get into whether they were right or wrong) according to the prophecies of Judaism. The Messiah was supposed to bring about the end of this world, and usher in the Kingdom of God. Jesus supposedly encouraged this belief, by saying things like there is not one among you who will taste death before seeing the kingdom of God (I'm paraphrasing). When he died, this was a big disappointment to his followers, who thought he was going to bring this kingdom of god to earth in his lifetime. Then they waited, and still nothing happened. Kind of like when I bought sea monkeys as a child (LYING BASTARDS!). Eventually they had to reinterpret their beliefs, which was accounted for in the Judaic prophecies by saying that if the Messiah died, another one would be born to finish the job. Well folks, *looks at watch* it's been a good two millenia, and people are still saying the same fucking thing. If it hasn't stopped by now, it's never going to.