NO ONE. It takes at least 3 days for someone to die when crucified, yet Christ managed to do it in a day? No. You've all been misinformed. Go complain to your church.

Is it hot in Jerusalem? Did he have access to water? Did he have multiple, large open wounds?

It's understandable that a person could die from being crucified in one day.

It said after he drank "vinegar" then he gave up the ghost. So was it vinegar, or something to knock him out?

I'm guessing the latter, ie a sedative. Just long enough so that they could take him down, then "resurrect" him. Yes you've all been misinformed. Go complain to your church.

i heard it depends on the manner of crucifixion. if the legs have no support or are purposely broken, the torso is supported only by the arms, which quickly makes it impossible to breathe... a matter of hours.

plus, he supposedly got stabbed with a spear while he was up there.

I'd also venture to guess that at least a few rocks were thrown at him from the audience.

Let me just say that I don't believe in Jesus as a god, but I believe he existed and was executed under the Romans.



It takes three days if you're tied to a cross. Roman prisoners who were incarcerated under political reasons were usually nailed to the cross, as their crimes were actually trying to bring about the fall of the Roman Empire and thus punished much more severely. Considering the blood loss, accompanied by severe dehydration, Christ could've reasonably died within three hours.

Remember: he was nailed in his feet and his wrists. He had been tortured and beaten severely, so his back was bloody and raw. His head was bleeding and he had a spear wound in his side. His ankles were most likely broken so that he could effectively be nailed to the cross. His body was hanging in such a way that it made it difficult to breathe. That would kill a lot of people.

Oh, and this "vinegar" you speak of was supposedly sour wine. If you smell sour wine, it smells like vinegar (vinegar may even be sour wine for all I know), so that may be where the translation comes from.

yup, basically sour wine = vinegar.

Well....

You lose.

I guess you didn't have the foresight to think that there are people who have the answers to stupid anti-christian theories on a religious forum.

ZING for the pun!

Sean is on fire tonight, shieeeet.

hehe, yeah, seriously...

you should have titled this thread, 'who gets pwned on totse in one post?'

Original Poster, you haven't got a clue what actually happened to Jesus, do you ?

It takes the average person, who HASN'T been beaten, starved, dehydrated, and whipped to near death 3 days to die after being crucified.

After having his back turned into mincemeat by the cat of nine tails he was nearly whipped to death with, he had to carry a huge piece of timber (the horizontal piece of the cross) all the way up to mount Calvary.

At that point he had suffered so much blood loss that it is a MIRACLE to believe he made it up onto that cross without perishing.

THEN he assumed the weight of the sin of the world.

Please read it again.

He assumed the WEIGHT OF THE SIN OF THE WORLD.

Colossians 1:19-22 - "...in Jesus all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him."

2 Corinthians 5:21 - "For our sake He (God) made him (Jesus) to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him (Jesus) we might become the righteousness of God."

He was sweating blood; a testament to just how much physical distress he was in.

A Physician Looks At The Death of Jesus Christ ( William D. Edwards, MD; Wesley J. Gabel, M Div; Floyd E. Hosmer, MS, AMI ) http://www.holytrinity.ok.goarch.org/Interesting%20Stuff/Special%20Communication%20Plus%20Picture.html

If the sour wine that was offered to him contained some sort of sedative, how do you explain the earth shattering events that occured once he perished ?

Mark 15:33 - "At the sixth hour darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour. 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Mark 15:38 - "The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, "Surely this man was the Son of God!"

Viable Explanation of why Jesus died so quickly: http://www.keithhunt.com/Howdied.html

The above passage reveals that not only did Jesus take upon Himself the sins of mankind when He died for us on the cross, but He also met fully the onslaught of demons, fallen angels, and all the power of evil forces in the heavens as well, disarming all of them completely.

If he were merely in a drug induced stupor, these events wouldn't have occured, since nothing "real" had happened.

As it has been mentioned, he was stabbed with a roman spear to verify his death: water and blood separated, which is scientifically known to be an indicator of death.

http://www.rotten.com/library/death/execution/crucifixion/

quote:: Rotten.com's Library

The cause of death in most crucifixions is actually suffocation. The victim has enough stability where the feet are nailed down to hold his body up (most victims were males). When the victim relaxes his legs and sags, the weight of his body drags the chest and shoulders down, hyperextending the arms and preventing him from breathing.

All you need to do to die fast on a cross is go limp and stay that way till you pass out. I am not saying that Jesus killed himself or anything but like Digi said he was beat up pretty bad before going up there.

Wine would be a vasodilation causing substance (causes blood vessels to open up on the surface of the skin) causing even more blood loss.

Also it was not the coldest of places to get beaten up in.

Oh yeh, nails go through wrists, not hands. They werent the thinnest of nails either. One easily could have ripped through his artery and major vein.

Same with his ankles.

I thought he was stabbed with the spear after he dies to make sure he was dead (they did it to all of them). Am I right in thinking that?

The others may have survived maybe a few days on the cross because they did not suffer severe malnutrition,bloodloss or dehydration before hand.

It is quite a shock to be crucified you know.

The others didn't survive longer...their legs were broken, in order to speed up the process. The Romans didn't like people being crucified on Sundays, after all.

*lol*

Jesus' legs weren't broken. That was pert of the prophecy.

I think Matthew says it took none hours for him to die (27:45)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

The Romans didn't like people being crucified on Sundays, after all.

*lol*

I thought they were making sure they could "keep the sabathe holy" by making sure they did not have to do any work getting them down if they died that day.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Is it hot in Jerusalem? Did he have access to water? Did he have multiple, large open wounds?

It's understandable that a person could die from being crucified in one day.

i dont think that the warm temperature was a factor in Jesus' expedient death on the cross.

After the Jews "captured" Jesus, they brought Him to the high priest to decide on the charges. In Joh 18:18, Peter is outside of the courtyard, warming himself by a fire.

John 18:18 Now the servants and the officers were standing there, having made a fire of coals; for it was cold; and they were warming themselves: and Peter also was with them, standing and warming himself.

Now granted, this was at night, when the temperature drops, but since it is around Passover (spring of the year, right?), i doubt that it was hot.

From the purely human side of it, I think the beatings and the blood loss combined with the physical exertion of carrying the cross- member up the hill, had to be a distinct factor in not being easily able to hold His body wieght up in order to breathe.

From the Christian side of it, the answer is simply, "because it had to be that way in order to fulfill prophecy".

quote:Originally posted by 4Sight:

NO ONE. It takes at least 3 days for someone to die when crucified, yet Christ managed to do it in a day? No. You've all been misinformed. Go complain to your church.

I suggest you watch The Passion of the Christ, It follows the bible well. Or actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They hit him 39 times with a cat-o-nine-tails that had at the end, shards of glass tied to it. If they would have hit him once more, it would have killed him then. In fact, they had to count out loud, because if they were to hit Jesus more than 39 times, they would have been struck with it themselves. Ya know, he hadn't done anything. Nothing at all, yet he died a more painful death than those who hung beside him on the cross. Really, I'd like to see you take on what Jesus did and live three days thereafter.

quote:Originally posted by dlmcc:

Jesus' legs weren't broken. That was pert of the prophecy.

I think Matthew says it took none hours for him to die (27:45)

I didn't say Jesus' legs were broken. If they had been, the prophecy wouldn't have been fulfilled the way it was given.

Please pay attention.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

i dont think that the warm temperature was a factor in Jesus' expedient death on the cross.

After the Jews "captured" Jesus, they brought Him to the high priest to decide on the charges. In Joh 18:18, Peter is outside of the courtyard, warming himself by a fire.

John 18:18 Now the servants and the officers were standing there, having made a fire of coals; for it was cold; and they were warming themselves: and Peter also was with them, standing and warming himself.

Now granted, this was at night, when the temperature drops, but since it is around Passover (spring of the year, right?), i doubt that it was hot.

From the purely human side of it, I think the beatings and the blood loss combined with the physical exertion of carrying the cross- member up the hill, had to be a distinct factor in not being easily able to hold His body wieght up in order to breathe.

From the Christian side of it, the answer is simply, "because it had to be that way in order to fulfill prophecy".



The heat wasn't as big of a factor as the beatings and blood loss would be, but it certainly didn't help him stay around longer.

The heat played a role in his death. It's still the middle east that we're talking about. It was hot back then like it is hot now and that heat played a role in his death.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I didn't say Jesus' legs were broken. If they had been, the prophecy wouldn't have been fulfilled the way it was given.

I never said that you said Jesus' legs were broken. Someone above said something about breaking his ankles. I hadn't even read your post when I wrote that.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Please pay attention.

Stop being an asshole.

Well, if that's the case, then I recant the explanation.

However, if your post HAD been in response to mine, it is obvious you didn't read it. My asking you to pay attention was then justified, and was NOT me trying to be an asshole.

Also, I am a female, so...find something a little more fitting to my gender, so I can feel the whole effect of your temper tantrum, please.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:



The heat wasn't as big of a factor as the beatings and blood loss would be, but it certainly didn't help him stay around longer.

The heat played a role in his death. It's still the middle east that we're talking about. It was hot back then like it is hot now and that heat played a role in his death.

That is an entirely fictional, unbiblical assertion.

Since it isn't mentioned in the Bible, you can speculate it having been a factor, but I don't think it is even an important point to address.

We all know what he went through was hard on his body. That's the reason he died so quickly.

Does it really need to be speculated beyond that ?

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-30-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, if that's the case, then I recant the explanation.

However, if your post HAD been in response to mine, it is obvious you didn't read it. My asking you to pay attention was then justified, and was NOT me trying to be an asshole.

Also, I am a female, so...find something a little more fitting to my gender, so I can feel the whole effect of your temper tantrum, please.

Trust me, assholeism easily crosses sexual and gender lines.

Dont trust him!!!

Digital_Savior: Well, if that's the case, then I recant the explanation.

However, if your post HAD been in response to mine, it is obvious you didn't read it. My asking you to pay attention was then justified, and was NOT me trying to be an asshole.

Also, I am a female, so...find something a little more fitting to my gender, so I can feel the whole effect of your temper tantrum, please.

I think just saying "sorry, it was a misunderstanding" would have sufficed. It was very arrogant and childish of you to continue to insult dlmcc.

You know what always bothered me about the Resurrection?

Christians often make specific mention of the fact that Jesus' flesh was resurrected. It wasn't just a revival or a rebirth of spirit, or the re-insertion of spirit into new flesh, but that the flesh that was crucified was reanimated. They also bring up the fact that Thomas had to feel the holes that were still in Jesus's hands to convince him of the resurrection.

Which makes Jesus... a zombie.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

plus, he supposedly got stabbed with a spear while he was up there.

Yeah, a soldier took pity on him - it wasn't out of spite.

If somebody ELSE posted this, I shall never know, for I don't spend too much time in MGCBTSOOYG.

an afternoon spent actually reading the fucking book would do some people a power of good,methinks.

why did JC die sooo quick (by comparison)?

take a long look at the the 'suffering servant' prophecies and maybe a quick read of josephus (russian) to round it off...

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

You know what always bothered me about the Resurrection?

Christians often make specific mention of the fact that Jesus' flesh was resurrected. It wasn't just a revival or a rebirth of spirit, or the re-insertion of spirit into new flesh, but that the flesh that was crucified was reanimated. They also bring up the fact that Thomas had to feel the holes that were still in Jesus's hands to convince him of the resurrection.

Which makes Jesus... a zombie.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

Stop making shit up. Read the bible before you insult Christians. People didn't recognize Jesus until he did the whole Last-Supper-schpiel.

quote:Originally posted by sellout_10:

Stop making shit up. Read the bible before you insult Christians. People didn't recognize Jesus until he did the whole Last-Supper-schpiel.

He's right actually, what are you talking about?

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:



I think just saying "sorry, it was a misunderstanding" would have sufficed. It was very arrogant and childish of you to continue to insult dlmcc.

Again, I have to point out how childish you are being by only ridiculing my posts.

I do nothing so different from anyone else on here, yet you have dedicated your time on Totse to making sure you point out every single one of my "perceived" flaws.

He calls me an asshole, and you are cool with that...but I say he is having a temper tantrum, and all of the sudden I am the bad guy ?

Please.

Grow up.

^^this is the kind of shit that keeps me from wanting to post here very often anymore.

Digi, act your goddamn age. You sound like an arrogant teenager who can't hardly bear admitting she was wrong.

[This message has been edited by Tesseract (edited 05-02-2005).]

Digital_Savior:

He calls me an asshole, and you are cool with that...but I say he is having a temper tantrum, and all of the sudden I am the bad guy ?

No, you were the one who began it by patronizing dlmcc when they weren't even talking to you. So they explain and say you were being an asshole. But you failed to understand that this comment is only in retaliation for what you said. And so in necessity you took back what you said, and proceeded to defend yourself against your mistake. Regardless of whether or not it was an accident, you still should have apologized, or just kept your mouth shut. But no, you go on further to insult them back for their retaliation.

Again, I have to point out how childish you are being by only ridiculing my posts.

I do nothing so different from anyone else on here, yet you have dedicated your time on Totse to making sure you point out every single one of my "perceived" flaws.

I'm ridiculing you because I can't stand your arrogance. You have some inexplicable need to come up with an excuse for everything you say, and you refuse to view yourself in a critical light. And when an excuse doesn't seem to work on its own, you attach an insult or two to divert the subject away from yourself.

In your case, you leave out divine intervention. Speaking anatomicaly, all one has to do is lean forward and resist the urge to pull back.