God loves all his children when they come onto the earth correct? Why doesn't he at least inform them all of the truth... give them the blessing of his existance? Why should people have to go around worshipping false idols without even being given the knowledge of god's existance?

Just a question to any christians out there.

I'm guessing that it uses faith to weed out the non-believers.

If you're not christian why does it matter?

It's the free will thing. Free will kind of loses it's meaning when there's no bad choices and he just tells everyone the right thing to do all the time. Which, supposedly the bible is supposed to say.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:

If you're not christian why does it matter?

It matters because God is in everyone and everyone is in God, regardless of their 'place' in society. Regardless of what they believe, the Truth is one sure Truth. How can it be any other way?

You are to look through the distortions, EVEN Christians...You don't get off lightly either. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

Who said I'm christian......

Anyways, assuming he/she is an atheist, why would/should he/she care about the intrinsic values of a faith that he/she doesn't even subscribe to?

Though you would be right if god were to exist.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

It's the free will thing. Free will kind of loses it's meaning when there's no bad choices and he just tells everyone the right thing to do all the time. Which, supposedly the bible is supposed to say.

Cheers,

Lost

No, forcing them to believe is a free will thing. But why isn't everyone just born into a place where they get to choose? That seems like the best free will thing. People who have never heard or been given the smallest inkling of information towards the existance of christianity don't seem to get much free choice.

Well, if God just came down today and showed himself to the entire world, you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to not believe in him.

Of course, one can easily find god in everyday life. That is, if one doesn't still think of god as an old man sitting above him in the sky.

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

No, forcing them to believe is a free will thing. But why isn't everyone just born into a place where they get to choose? That seems like the best free will thing. People who have never heard or been given the smallest inkling of information towards the existance of christianity don't seem to get much free choice.



Huh? Everyone is allowed to believe whatever they want to believe. Whether or not people kill you/persecute you for it is another. Whether or not you have access to the documents is another. But, you can believe whatever you want. That's freewill. Not having freewill would mean we'd have a prescribed belief that no one would be able to even question.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

No, forcing them to believe is a free will thing. But why isn't everyone just born into a place where they get to choose? That seems like the best free will thing. People who have never heard or been given the smallest inkling of information towards the existance of christianity don't seem to get much free choice.



You make no sense whatsoever. How often today are people truely forced into faith(oxymoron)?

"If God revealed himself, then everyone would be forced to believe and nobody would have faith." I've seen this argument before, but have you really thought about it?

What would really happen if God revealed himself, and everyone believed that he existed? Would everyone worship a God that constantly punishes his creation? There's still an issue of faith even here. The Israelites had been given proof that Yahweh existed, and they believed he existed, yet they lost his favor time and time again.

Instead of "does God exist?" everyone would be asking "do I like this 'God' guy?" or "am I willing to give up my entire life to be some god's slave?"

So no, proof of God's existence would not be the end of faith. There's still a choice. But at least those who are trying to do the right thing would know what to do.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

So no, proof of God's existence would not be the end of faith. There's still a choice. But at least those who are trying to do the right thing would know what to do.

Choice isn't really faith, though... Proof of god existence would be the end of faith; at least faith pertaining to the question of the existence or non-existence of a god.

Though yes, I would agree that it does not mean everyone would worship god even if his existence was proved.

quote:

Instead of "does God exist?" everyone would be asking "do I like this 'God' guy?" or "am I willing to give up my entire life to be some god's slave?"

It's not about slavery, it's cooperation, harmony, understanding the relationship.

There are no 'slaves' to God. That is why we have free will, so that we can choose to be with God...God doesn't want you to do anything you don't want to do.

God would like you to accept him through choice. Now that is love for His children, is it not?

I use the word God here, but this applies to Creation, Source...Whichever you prefer.

quote:Originally posted by XliMun(Frontalobe)~:

It's not about slavery, it's cooperation, harmony, understanding the relationship.

There are no 'slaves' to God. That is why we have free will, so that we can choose to be with God...God doesn't want you to do anything you don't want to do.

NO, reguarding Christianity, it is about "slavery". It is a willingness to be God's servant. Paul calls himself a bond-servant of God's.

You've mentioned that God is all of us, and we are God. That is New Age-- which is really repackaged paganism (hindu, tao, etc.)

You just contradicted yourself in your first paragraph...Then in the next you seperate the whole into different boxes.

That is very very boring. Please don't quote my posts unless you have something interesting to offer.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:NO,

No? LOL. Yes, Sir!





[This message has been edited by XliMun(Frontalobe)~ (edited 05-08-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by XliMun(Frontalobe)~:

You just contradicted yourself in your first paragraph...Then in the next you seperate the whole into different boxes.

That is very very boring. Please don't quote my posts unless you have something interesting to offer.

Contradicted?

you said that it was not about slavery, i said it was.

quote:

it is about "slavery". It is a willingness to be God's servant.

....

quote: it is about "slavery".

quote:It is a willingness

?

quote:Originally posted by XliMun(Frontalobe)~:

?

ahhh, i can see where you are coming from, but it still is not a contradiction.

everyone is a slave to something, and most times it is a willingness (more or less).

gotta leave for work, i hope this clarified but we can go on if you like.

I saw God while I was looking at a wall yesterday.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I'm guessing that it uses faith to weed out the non-believers.

If you're not christian why does it matter?

quote:"You know, You die and go to St. Peter...

"Did you believe in dinosaurs?"

"Well, yeah. There were fossils everywhere"

Thunk [trapdoor opens] "Aaaaaaarhhh!"

"You fuckin idiot. Flying lizards, you're a moron. God was fuckin' with you!"

"It seemed so plausible, ahhhh!"

"Enjoy the lake of fire, fucker!"

God used to post on totse. But we banned the lousy fucker!

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

NO, reguarding Christianity, it is about "slavery". It is a willingness to be God's servant. Paul calls himself a bond-servant of God's.

You've mentioned that God is all of us, and we are God. That is New Age-- which is really repackaged paganism (hindu, tao, etc.)

Slavery and servitude are not the same. Slaves are exploited. Servants do the masters bidding but still have respect and dignity given to them.

And yea, he sounds a bit New Agey

That idea isn't New Age, that's a biblical ideal. God is the beginning, end, and all that is in between. Timeless, spaceless. God permeates through all that is; God IS all that is.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Slavery and servitude are not the same. Slaves are exploited. Servants do the masters bidding but still have respect and dignity given to them.

And yea, he sounds a bit New Agey

this is from "Nelson's Compact Bible Dictionary":

"...Both slave and free are called upon to recieve the gospel of Jesus Christ. In Christ, social distintions such as slavery no longer apply (Gal 3:28; Col 3:11); in Christ all are brothers and sisters. The excitement if such new relationships is expressed by Paul: "Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ" (Gal 4:7).

In a spiritual sense, people apart from Christ are slaves to sin. To commit sin is to demostrate that sin has control of one's life (Johhn 8:34). Christ can set us free from this kind of slavery (John 8:36) - to be obedient to Christ and to do righteousness (Rom 6:16-18)."

this next paragraph addresses your reply, Argon.

"Paul spoke of himself as a "servant," a word sometimes rendered as "bondservant" but frequently also as "slave" (Rom 1:1; Titus 1:1). Christians, especially ministers, are not hired servants but slaves committed to service to Jesus. Slave do not manage their own lives. People who call themselves slaves of Christ acknowledge that the Savior has power over them."

God is a God. He is like a human but with immortality. According to what the Bible said, God is imperfect and he almost broke his covenent with Abraham when speaking to Moses. God also only is the God of the Jews. He punishes other peoples even when they do what he says (remeber that magician and the donkey and the angel?) because they are no his people. Sodom r t3h hacks 111

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clarphimous:

"If God revealed himself, then everyone would be forced to believe and nobody would have faith." I've seen this argument before, but have you [b]really thought about it?

wel thats unfair on the future generations. the people who see god actually exist are lucky cause they believe and go to heaven. the people who dont aren't given a fair chance. you cant say god keeps the aura of mystery around him to weed out the non believers. why does he want any non believers? so hell wont be empty and satan wont be lonely?? if he was a loving god hed show himself and THAT would be fair. as someone said before, if he realy did show up then you realy would be pretty fucking stupid not to believe in him...

HEY T-BagBikerStar

you need a hobby

mgb

we're all just groping in the dark here. if a god resembling the one in any holy book exists then he is either outright evil or apathetic towards us. you wouldn't bother to be god of an ant hill would you? everybody go read the prologue in arthur c clarkes 3001, its just two pages and it pretty much sums up what an omniscient god would be like.