So...everyone knows about Terry Schiavo, and her untimely death.

We still can't really formulate a "why", and we will most likely remain divided on the subject - Christians supporting the right to live, and non-Christians supporting the right to die.

But, has anyone heard of Scott Thomas ? Coincidentally, he's from Florida, just like Terry was. Another remarkable coincidence is that he suffered an injury to the head that has rendered him helpless.

His wife is seeking to place him in Community Hospice of Northeast Florida, where she hopes to have his feeding tube removed.

Yet another coincidence, is that both Scott Thomas' brain injury, and Terry Schiavo's, have both been found to be caused by blunt force trauma, and NOT by accident, as immediate family members have claimed.

So, the question of whether or not mercy killings should be legal grows in depth. What causes the necessity ?

How is this related to religion ? It seems that there is an over abundance of support for mercy killings within the atheistic community. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Christians believe that NO ONE should be murdered...and please don't bring up the support of the death penalty, since that is a different subject entirely, and those who truly read the word of God know that the death penalty is just as wrong as any other type of murder.

So, why is it that atheist's seem to fall over themselves to perpetuate mercy killings ? What is there to gain ? WHY DO THEY CARE ?

If a family member of a brain damaged person wants to take care of them for the rest of their life, why shouldn't they be able to ? If they are brain dead, they won't know the difference, will they ? They won't be "suffering" in a conventional sense...at least not with any kind of consciousness about it.

How does it adversely affect our society to allow people who have been rendered helpeless to live their lives to the end ?

Why are Christians viewed as "pathetic" for thinking that life is more important than anything else ?

I know the flames are coming, but please try and be constructive. I am not trying to call atheist's murderers. My question is based more on the idealogy rather than the outcome. The question is "why"...

I would like to see some honest answers. I don't need to hear about how stupid Christians are, and how I am being obtuse.

Here is the link for the story on Scott Thomas: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44280

I agree.

Thanks. *winks*

Ever took the time to think what the patient would want?

I don’t think lots of people would like to remain a vegetable for the rest of there lives not being able to eat, speak and think?

It’s repulsive to see how religion is making other people suffer to maintain there right lined opinions.

well my take on it is if a person is capable of expressing his wish to die it should be granted, no questions asked, provided he does so in a court or something nice and official like that.

if a person is incapable of communicating yet concious he should be allowed to live, no questions asked.

if a person is a vegitable for all practical purposes then the family should have the right to pull the plug or keep paying the hospital bill as they deem fit.

that seems fair to me

quote:Originally posted by Donny Darko:

Ever took the time to think what the patient would want?

I don’t think lots of people would like to remain a vegetable for the rest of there lives not being able to eat, speak and think?

It’s repulsive to see how religion is making other people suffer to maintain there right lined opinions.

If they are brain damaged, there is no such thing as "want".

You are not doing ANYONE a service by murdering them, in the name of "mercy". It's a lie, and it's sick.

If you would like someone to murder you if you are rendered helpless, then a power of attorney should be appointed (a family member or something) to make decisions like that FOR YOU, in the event that you can't.

But as a Christian, I still believe that what happens is meant to be...to control that is to play God.

People that are in a vegetative state don't know they are suffering...so, there is no premise to your belief that religion makes people suffer.

God loves life, and therefor so do we.

The value of it far exceeds that of brain activity alone.

People aren't animals ! You don't "put them down" when they are undesirable, or incompetent. THEY ARE PEOPLE !

I am sorry you don't see that.

quote:Originally posted by Sarith:

well my take on it is if a person is capable of expressing his wish to die it should be granted, no questions asked, provided he does so in a court or something nice and official like that.

if a person is incapable of communicating yet concious he should be allowed to live, no questions asked.

if a person is a vegitable for all practical purposes then the family should have the right to pull the plug or keep paying the hospital bill as they deem fit.

that seems fair to me

Then shouldn't said person take their OWN life ?

Why should the medical community have anything to DO with that, when their very creed states that their only function is to PRESERVE life ?

I would agree with your statement that the family should be able to decide, except you have varying opinions on the matter within the same family. Take Terry Schiavo, for instance. The husband wanted her dead for obvious reasons (insurance money), and the parents wanted her alive for equally obvious reasons (love).

This caused a great conflict that lasted over 8 years, I believe, and in the end, the party that did NOT have Terry's best interests in mind won.

Where is the justice and mercy in THAT ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

If you would like someone to murder you if you are rendered helpless, then a power of attorney should be appointed (a family member or something) to make decisions like that FOR YOU, in the event that you can't.

If I would be in Terry Schavo's state I would want my parents to let me die I told them so, that is just no way of living.



[This message has been edited by Donny Darko (edited 05-15-2005).]

I would agree, from a humanistic standpoint.

But spiritually, we have to acknowledge that everything happens for a reason. Even if the purpose of Terry's condition was NOT for Terry, perhaps for countless others in her life, it would be a breaking point.

But, if YOU don't want to live that way, then you should draw up a living will and appoint a power of attorney to conduct your "mercy" killing...it shouldn't be determined by OTHER people, but yourself.

Don't you agree ?

Also, is STARVING to death any way to die ?

We kill murderer's on death row in a more humane fashion !

Why couldn't they have given her a lethal injection ? Quick, and painless ?

Digi:

I would say that much of this has to do with your definition of 'life'.

Do you consider someone that can show brief, miniscule signs of consciousness alive? The occasional spark in the severely damaged brain equates to a clear sign of life?

Though, you said it yourself, "If they are brain damaged, there is no such thing as 'want'." Essentially, the person or soul (however you want to view it) is gone. All of their hopes, aspirations, memories, emotions, all of it seems to have been erased, at least from what we can observe.

You seem to believe that atheists have no respect for life, however it appears to be more of a dispute over the definition of life.

Those that do not believe in an afterlife will obviously focus their attention on our brief times of existence. Life is defined by the experiences that occur on a daily basis. Therefore, when someone can no longer experience the world around them, they are essentially viewed as already 'dead'. The practice of Euthanasia is not necessarily a malicious attempt at ridding the world of life. People in a vegetative state are viewed by many as an empty shell that simply needs to be 'let go'.

You then propose that we allow anyone that is willing to keep them 'alive' to do so for as long as possible. To do otherwise would be interfering with God's plan.

1. Why do these people feel the need to preserve a lump of unaware flesh that was once a human, at all costs? What do they gain from this ongoing 'relationship'? There is no interaction. There is no conscious being to return emotion, ideas, the very things that make us human.

2. How can one know God's plan? What if these vegetables are meant to die? Hence their constant near-death state. To go against these natural deaths by forcing a heart-beat on a being that can no longer exist on its own seems to interfere moreso than simply allowing them to pass.

You go on to state that the decision to live or die should be entirely up to the individual; no one else should be able to make that choice.

Yet, can you not see the inherent hypocrisy? Some want to let the vegetable die, others want to force them to 'live'. How is your stance of "life at any cost" any closer to the true wishes of the person in question than those that would allow them to die? Both sides are trying to make the decision for the one that cannot make the choice on their own (assuming that no one truly knows their final wishes).

Finally, you criticize the inhumane fashion in which Terri was allowed to pass. Yet, does this not go against your own claim that the vegetable can no longer suffer in a physical sense?

Just another perspective. Have a nice day.

Edit: Stupid.... stupid mistake.

[This message has been edited by UnknownVeritas (edited 05-15-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

We kill murderer's on death row in a more humane fashion !

Why couldn't they have given her a lethal injection ? Quick, and painless ?

If you were a sick and twisted person like I am and have read all the account of botched exicutions you would know that that is not always the case.

They can't do that because it is murder everywhere but Amsterdam. Even in Oregon you need the patient's permition. What puzzled me was why they gave morphine to a vegitable who was unable to feel pain. I am geussing that she was not as brain damaged as they would like us to think, I don't remember them ever making the autopsy results public.

[This message has been edited by MasterPython (edited 05-15-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

So...everyone knows about Terry Schiavo, and her untimely death.

We still can't really formulate a "why", and we will most likely remain divided on the subject - Christians supporting the right to live, and non-Christians supporting the right to die.

These unfortunate people trapped inside their own bodies in a persistent vegetative state are being kept alive for selfish reasons, to make people feel better about themselves. They are getting next to nothing out of staying alive.

But, has anyone heard of Scott Thomas ? Coincidentally, he's from Florida, just like Terry was. Another remarkable coincidence is that he suffered an injury to the head that has rendered him helpless.

His wife is seeking to place him in Community Hospice of Northeast Florida, where she hopes to have his feeding tube removed.

Yet another coincidence, is that both Scott Thomas' brain injury, and Terry Schiavo's, have both been found to be caused by blunt force trauma, and NOT by accident, as immediate family members have claimed.

Blunt force trauma can be accidental.

So, the question of whether or not mercy killings should be legal grows in depth. What causes the necessity ?

How is this related to religion ? It seems that there is an over abundance of support for mercy killings within the atheistic community. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You've got it backwards. There's an overabundance of opposition to euthanasia in the Christian community. When you've watched someone you love suffer and die horribly, you try and tell me that, given the chance, you would put them through the exact same thing again because you believe euthanasia is wrong.

Christians believe that NO ONE should be murdered...and please don't bring up the support of the death penalty, since that is a different subject entirely, and those who truly read the word of God know that the death penalty is just as wrong as any other type of murder.

So why do so many so-called Christians support the death penalty but oppose abortion? It's not a different subject at all. It is the deliberate ending of one human being's life by another, and anyone who can say "murder is forbidden by God" and still support the death penalty is a hypocrite.

So, why is it that atheist's seem to fall over themselves to perpetuate mercy killings ? What is there to gain ? WHY DO THEY CARE ?

Because Atheist does not mean amoral, Satanic, apathetic, or evil. It simply means that the person does not believe in any kind of God. You don't have to be Christian to be a good person. Most Atheists I know are wonderful, caring people.

If a family member of a brain damaged person wants to take care of them for the rest of their life, why shouldn't they be able to ? If they are brain dead, they won't know the difference, will they ? They won't be "suffering" in a conventional sense...at least not with any kind of consciousness about it.

If the family member wants to take care of them for the rest of their life, that's one thing. If the person had previously expressed a desire to die rather than live as as a vegetable, that's another thing entirely.

How does it adversely affect our society to allow people who have been rendered helpeless to live their lives to the end ?

It doesn't, really. How does it adversely affect our society to allow people who have been rendered helpless to die with some dignity?

Why are Christians viewed as "pathetic" for thinking that life is more important than anything else ?

I don't view them that way, and I don't know anyone who does. Hypocrites are the people I view as pathetic.

I know the flames are coming, but please try and be constructive. I am not trying to call atheist's murderers. My question is based more on the idealogy rather than the outcome. The question is "why"...

I would like to see some honest answers. I don't need to hear about how stupid Christians are, and how I am being obtuse.

Here is the link for the story on Scott Thomas: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44280

Also, please stop saying "mercy killings" like it makes it sound worse. It doesn't.



[This message has been edited by God of Toilets (edited 05-15-2005).]

And wasn't Terri's brain dammage caused by a heart attack and the resulting loss of circulation.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

And wasn't Terri's brain dammage caused by a heart attack and the resulting loss of circulation.

I believe it was.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Christians believe that NO ONE should be murdered...and please don't bring up the support of the death penalty, since that is a different subject entirely, and those who truly read the word of God know that the death penalty is just as wrong as any other type of murder.

So why do so many so-called Christians support the death penalty but oppose abortion? It's not a different subject at all. It is the deliberate ending of one human being's life by another, and anyone who can say "murder is forbidden by God" and still support the death penalty is a hypocrite.

Good one, you're doing the Devils work on earth, God won't be pleased!

All I can say is this. Wether you agree with euthanasia or not; if Satan exists he would be much happier with other projects going on in America.

Lets take for example, when the School of the America's in Georgia trains Terrorists or Nicaraguan Contra's. Or howabout the arms industry.

I would imagine the Devil would be looking at the Euthanasia report and going "eh, pretty weak", compaired to his other ventures.

The usa is not a christian nation. So in other words religion should not have anything to do with Euthanasia/abortion.

quote:Originally posted by great_sage=heaven:

All I can say is this. Wether you agree with euthanasia or not; if Satan exists he would be much happier with other projects going on in America.

Lets take for example, when the School of the America's in Georgia trains Terrorists or Nicaraguan Contra's. Or howabout the arms industry.

I would imagine the Devil would be looking at the Euthanasia report and going "eh, pretty weak", compaired to his other ventures.

Not to give too much credit to Satan, but considering he has had 6000 years or so of practice, i'd bet that there is nearly nothing he doesnt have his hand in.

If it takes peoples attention away from God, i'd guess that he feels nothing is too small.. lots o time on his hands.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Also, is STARVING to death any way to die ?

We kill murderer's on death row in a more humane fashion !

Why couldn't they have given her a lethal injection ? Quick, and painless ?

You're slipping. I used to think you were pretty smart, but you're actually not very good at this debate stuff. You have to be consistant. If she doesn't know she's suffering, how is it inhumane to let her starve?

People's wishes should be respected. And religion should be left out of it. Just because you think that everything happens for a reason doesn't mean that everyone else should think that. It's fucking insane to even suggest that our laws should be decided based on YOUR ideas about how "God" works. I'm tired of you

The real question that the whole Terry Schiavo case posed was: What exactly is living? That's what freaks everyone out. Was she actually even alive? Aside from a heart beat. Did she want to live? Does someone in her position have meaning or purpose in the world? What would that purpose be? Would they ever be able to restore her?

None of these questions are any more answerable than the age old question of the meaning of life.



"So, the question of whether or not mercy killings should be legal grows in depth. What causes the necessity ?"

- I don't think it has increased in necessity. Mercy killings have been around forever, only now it's on the news.

"How is this related to religion ? It seems that there is an over abundance of support for mercy killings within the atheistic community. Please correct me if I am wrong.

- You're wrong. Atheists value life quite a bit, and most atheists will argue that they value life more than the average theist because they don't believe in an after life.

Christians believe that NO ONE should be murdered...and please don't bring up the support of the death penalty, since that is a different subject entirely, and those who truly read the word of God know that the death penalty is just as wrong as any other type of murder.

- It says in the bible that "Thou shall not murder" not thou shall not kill; this brings up the question 'what's the difference between murdering and killing?' but, what can you do. Not all questions have answers.

As far as the death penalty go, I think: sometimes people have to make the bad choice because there is no other better choice to make. Just like Eve eating the apple. "In a bad situation, there are no good decisions to be made, because if there were it wouldn't be such a bad situation." People give the death penalty because they are faced with a situation so bad that they can only see one way to justify it. It's not a good way to justify it, but it's the only way they can think of. After all, we're not all philosophers.

But, my personal opinion is that if they're going to have the death penalty they should televise it. I think people would be less apt to sentence people to death if they had to witness the killing.

So, why is it that atheist's seem to fall over themselves to perpetuate mercy killings ? What is there to gain ? WHY DO THEY CARE ?

- You're simply mistaken.

If a family member of a brain damaged person wants to take care of them for the rest of their life, why shouldn't they be able to ? If they are brain dead, they won't know the difference, will they ? They won't be "suffering" in a conventional sense...at least not with any kind of consciousness about it.

- First of all, they are allowed to. Mercy killing is just an option. Second of all, I want to highlight where you state "will they?" Because, there's no way to tell what they feel.

"How does it adversely affect our society to allow people who have been rendered helpeless to live their lives to the end ?

- I don't know, but I suppose people are expensive, even brain dead ones.

Why are Christians viewed as "pathetic" for thinking that life is more important than anything else ?

- Again, DS, you are mistaken.

I hope I was at least a little enlightening.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



Yet another coincidence, is that both Scott Thomas' brain injury, and Terry Schiavo's, have both been found to be caused by blunt force trauma, and NOT by accident, as immediate family members have claimed.

[/URL]

Uber-wrong.

Sources,please.

I see you still haven't read Nietzsche.

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. (Human-all-too-Human, 483)".

quote:Originally posted by WolfinSheepsClothing:

Uber-wrong.

Sources,please.

I see you still haven't read Nietzsche.

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. (Human-all-too-Human, 483)".Apparently you haven't read where he expounds upon his thesis that morality dies with religion and if there is no God, the Übermensch must step forward to impose his personal standards upon the weak. (Also Sprach Zarathustra) Hitler was fond of that one...

Deine Wille zur Macht ist für uns zu schwach. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

have any christians ever considered the idea that maybe keeping someone alive artificially is against "god's" plan? i mean if they're gonna die without humans help could that not be an argument that god wants them to die? just an afterthought

on the actual topic the whole case is based around what the patient would have wanted not whether or not we are "allowed" to kill her but whether she would have wanted her life to end if it had gotten to such a state where she had no chance of recovery and could not do anything what so ever other than lie there. also she wasn't actually killed, they didn't give her a lethal injection or anything they simply removed her feeding tube and let her die naturally. technically it wasn't mercy 'killing' but rather simply mercy, not forcing on her something that she wouldn't have wanted, life as a vegetable. personally i hope that if i ever get to a state like that where there is no way i'm coming out of it that my friends and family not only remove my feeding tube but actually give me that injection as well. living like a vegetable isn't life, its nothing.

quote:Yet another coincidence, is that both Scott Thomas' brain injury, and Terry Schiavo's, have both been found to be caused by blunt force trauma, and NOT by accident, as immediate family members have claimed.

Complete and utter lie. Show me the medical examiner claiming that Schiavo's injury was caused by intentional blunt force trauma.

quote:So, why is it that atheist's seem to fall over themselves to perpetuate mercy killings ? What is there to gain ? WHY DO THEY CARE ?

If a family member of a brain damaged person wants to take care of them for the rest of their life, why shouldn't they be able to ? If they are brain dead, they won't know the difference, will they ? They won't be "suffering" in a conventional sense...at least not with any kind of consciousness about it.

The Schiavo case was not about suffering. It's about her right to choose or deny a treatment.

By arguing that she MUST have the feeding tube, you are arguing that you MUST accept a treatment; you are forcing a medical procedure on her, a procedure she might not want.



P.S. A reminder that you still owe me, and others, a reply in other threads.

Also, did you send the package? I have not received it. I know this is not going to be your first priority (to send it that is), I understand that, but if you can tell me when you sent it (if you have) so as to know when to expect it.

quote:Apparently you haven't read where he expounds upon his thesis that morality dies with religion and if there is no God, the Übermensch must step forward to impose his personal standards upon the weak. (Also Sprach Zarathustra) Hitler was fond of that one...

Deine Wille zur Macht ist für uns zu schwach. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

What is the relevance there? ...seriously... I'm just confused as to how that has anything to do with what we're talking about.

Dogs sometimes like their own balls even though they don't have sex for pleasure



[This message has been edited by GlitterPunk112358 (edited 05-16-2005).]

Sounds like stalin+hitler...

Euthanasia: The Devil's Agenda for America



Left Wing-Abortion=good, Death Penalty=bad

Right Wing-Abortion=bad, Death Penalty=good

And god talks to bush every night.

quote:Originally posted by The_Nazi:

Sounds like stalin+hitler...

Euthanasia: The Devil's Agenda for America



Left Wing-Abortion=good, Death Penalty=bad

Right Wing-Abortion=bad, Death Penalty=good

And god talks to bush every night.

Fucking awesome song.

Cheers,

Lost

Yeah, sitting in bed for 8 years without feeling, thought, or anything is life. No, its not.

A million niggers got slaughtered in Rwanda in the early 90's, NO ONE GAVE A FUCK!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

A million niggers got slaughtered in Rwanda in the early 90's, NO ONE GAVE A FUCK!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

No, Snoopy. People did give a fuck. Just not enough people or just not the right people. And it's not like they're not suffering now.

Suffer is the human condition.

You know me too well for me to talk to you like this.

Cheers,

Lost

[This message has been edited by LostCause (edited 05-17-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

What is the relevance there? ...seriously... I'm just confused as to how that has anything to do with what we're talking about.

It accomplished a few things. First, it places his Nietzsche quote into the context of his larger belief system. Nietzsche's theory was that convictions were bad, because they reinforced the idea of morality (something he thought to be an inferior psychological structure that detracted from the 'truth' of reality). It also presented Nietzsche's theory that religion was the source of convictions and that when it dies, morality will as well. That is something I as a religious person agree with. Religion informs morality. My post also reveals Nietzsche's conviction, that into the void created by the death of religion, a religion of man will arise where the strong oppress the weak and the new 'morality' will be an internally imposed thing, rather than external one with universal standards. A world not very attractive to most people who aren't anxious to become mass murderers. The relevance to this discussion is that firstly, he shouldn't condescendingly admonish us about Nietzsche by selectively quoting him when Nietzsche's theories as a whole support our theistic contentions with regards to morality, life and death, and secondly that Hitler was a great fan of the Übermensch ideology gives an example of the ends to which relativism can be taken.

What I wrote in German (which rhymes by the way http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)) translates as "Your Will to Power is too weak for us." Someone who has studied Nietzsche will get the joke.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

No, Snoopy. People did give a fuck. Just not enough people or just not the right people. And it's not like they're not suffering now.

Suffer is the human condition.

You know me too well for me to talk to you like this.

Cheers,

Lost

The point is, the people who protest against these kinds of things couldn't even point Rwanda on a map.

All this fuss over one retarded woman dying really bitchslaps all the people who have died, and those who have lost someone to a genocide or holocaust. It's a direct insult to humanity. It makes people dying every day needless look insignificant. The people who can't see the political agenda behind this bullshit should be fucking executed on the spot. No trial, no jury, straight fucking execution.

This "selective caring" people seen to show to boast their egos is really fucking pissing me off. Pissing me off to the point of breaking bones. Their momma's bones.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

A million niggers got slaughtered in Rwanda in the early 90's, NO ONE GAVE A FUCK!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

I wasn't old enough to care.

Got some links, or a specific thing I can look for on the subject ?

No it doesn't.

I could talk about all of the people that died on this planet, too...

But right now I am talking about that retarded woman.

So PC, Snoopy.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I wasn't old enough to care.

Got some links, or a specific thing I can look for on the subject ?

Digital... The problems in Rwanda aren't even over, it's a famous delimma. You should really look into it. While you're at it check out what North Korea is doing to Cambodia. That's freaky. And you know the war in Vietnam isn't over?

But, Snoopy, DS is right, in a way because that's really not what this thread is about.

Cheers,

Lost

Wow digital I'm sure you didn't realize there were tragedies going on with more than one victim.

That was a dumb response to snoopy's post. Which was pretty much the same point I was trying to make in mine.

Terry Shiavo's case should not have been 'business' of so many people. If people actually attached themselves to real causes like Rwanda instead of bullshit like the Shiavo case which should be left between the family and the gov., then the world will improve. Whether you've heard of the Rwandan massacres or not, there's obviously more pressing issues.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

But, Snoopy, DS is right, in a way because that's really not what this thread is about.

I believe it is, and I clearly stated so. Note that I live in a country where euthanasia is legal. It's not really an issue anymore. If you're so fucked up beyond return, and 3 or more appropriate doctors independently agree to it, you have the right to choose death. It's simple. If the person is fucked up beyond recognition (as was this retarded chick), then someone gets to choose for her, with the right jurisdiction.

My point is, her case hasn't got shit to do with euthanasia. It's a political thing and it doesn't belong in this forum.

Religious people are such fucking hypocrites. In the course of history, they murder millions, billions. And now, they try to deny sick people the right to die in dignity. I say, let's all hunt down and murder/rape religious people. Man, I love extreme answers to simple life problems cause by idiots. It gets me horny.

On a side note, in Holland, suicide is also legal. You can go to certain groups who will guide you in your suicide. Why? Because people who commit suicide often hurt others in the process. Jumping off of buildings, jumping under trains, cars, busses, shooting themselves in the head, etc. Not necessarily do they hurt people physically, but most people end up having metal traumas from seeing people suicide or finding their fucked up body.

That's why Holland has set up these "suicide centers" that will guide people in calmly getting the fuck out of our face, without bothering anyone with it. I mean, denying people the right to kill themselves is illogical. They'll do it anyway. So the best thing you can do is try and avoid as many accidents as possible.

Note to you bible thumpers before you start sucking my cock again. These centers don't just blindly tell people how to kill themselves. Their primary motive is to get people not to do it. But when all else fails, fuck em!

quote:Originally posted by great_sage=heaven:

Wow digital I'm sure you didn't realize there were tragedies going on with more than one victim.

Yes, I am fully aware that this world is suffering. It wasn't dumb for me to ask him to specifically give me something on the Rwanda conflict.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

I agree, we should care about a lot of things, but THIS thread was geared towards addressing euthanasia against those who don't have a voice.

If you want a thread about Rwanda, go make one.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Religious people are such fucking hypocrites. In the course of history, they murder millions, billions. And now, they try to deny sick people the right to die in dignity. I say, let's all hunt down and murder/rape religious people. Man, I love extreme answers to simple life problems cause by idiots. It gets me horny.

Your point is moot, since I haven't murdered anyone, and neither did Christ.

If you're going to be a bigot, try and exude such hostility about something that actually pertains to me.

This isn't about denying anyone any rights, since the premise for justification seems to be that these people are "brain dead". You aren't denying them anything, if they are brain dead, now are you ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

but THIS thread was geared towards addressing euthanasia against those who don't have a voice.

She didn't have a choice whether she could eat or not. The only thing that kept her "alive" is people force feeding her using modern medicine. By your logic she shouldn't be fed because she can't choose to do so herself.

End thread. Your thread is stupid and the topic of euthanasia has been solved already. Only primitive minded fuckheads stagger behind. Get with the times, bitch.

The people in Holland are able-bodied, and in full mental capacity.

If YOU choose to off yourself, more power to ya.

To kill people who can't defend themselves one way or another is simply WRONG.

Not a viable comparison.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Your point is moot, since I haven't murdered anyone, and neither did Christ.

If you're going to be a bigot, try and exude such hostility about something that actually pertains to me.

This isn't about denying anyone any rights, since the premise for justification seems to be that these people are "brain dead". You aren't denying them anything, if they are brain dead, now are you ?

Always trying to shove your shit in someone else's toilet, are you now?!

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

To kill people who can't defend themselves one way or another is simply WRONG.

People CHOOSE to be put to death, because they can't do so themselves. And no one killed Terri. She just died of starvation because she wasn't able to eat. End of story. The same shit would've happened if the family stopped paying for her feeding. Are you saying that only the rich enough retards have a right to exist?

Hahhaha, you're such a dumb bitch.

Snoopy. You're obviously pissed, but watching you and DS go at it makes me feel like I'm repeatedly bashing my head against a wall. You both need to chill.

The only thing that worse than bible thumpers is atheists and bible thumpers arguing.

This thread is over.

Cheers,

Lost