okeydokey i would like to see if anyone can give me a definitive, logical answer to this. if god made us in our image (and i'm talking here mainly to the christians although anyone else who subscribes to this theory feel free to join in) and yet we are capable of violence, hatred, vengeance, murder, rape, etc. now if god is perfect then for us too be made in his image then we would not be capable of these things, your can't be partly perfect you either are or you aren't. this leads me to the idea that if god does exist then there can only be 2 explanations for this incongruity.

1) god is not perfect, he is as flawed and petty as we are. hence he is not to be worshipped as a loving caring creater but should be treated rather as we treat any other man and be judged on his decisions as we ourselves are judged

OR

2) we are nothing like god at all, we are simply his creation such as a hammer is unlike us but yet our creation. if this is the case then i ask why would he care about us at all? we are nothing like him so there is no affinity he feels for us we are simply a tool once again like a hammer.

i'd like to see if anyone else has any other take on this, whether or not i've missed something, or maybe whether i'm right and god missed something

we are in God's image.



its coz of satan

We know we are created in God's image because the Bible tells us so in Genesis 1:27 where we read, "And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Now, this event happened before the fall of man, but we know that we are still in some sense created in the image of God because 1 Corinthians 11:7 reaffirms this fact. Also Genesis 9:6 imposes the death penalty because of the fact that man is made in the image of God. This would argue that the idea of being created in God's image still applies to us today.

The words "image" and "likeness" used in Genesis 1:26-27 express the idea of the whole man being created in this way. In some sense, both a man's material and immaterial aspects are included in this assessment. Now, we know that strictly speaking man's physical body is not patterned after the physical appearance of God. We are taught in John 4 that God is Spirit and does not reside in a physical body. However, this does not preclude the physical body being some part of the image of God. We exist currently as body and soul together. It is meaningless to talk of us a just a soul or just a body when we are alive on earth. Both are intricately intertwined to make you the person you are.

The body reflects God's image by first of all being one in substance. God as a trinity is one being, acting with as much unity as our soul acts with our body. Our bodies are living, and Paul emphasizes that we serve a living God, not one of gold or silver or stone (Act17:29). In fact he says that those idols cannot be God because it would take a living being to create us as living beings. This is a highly rational argument, and difficult to find objectionable.

Paul's ability to appeal to reason demonstrates another way that man is made in the image of God. God by His nature is a rational being. He operates by the laws of logic. He is not constrained by them because they are some kind of "higher force", but they are the natural outflow of His will; they are His nature. He is as much a rational being as He is a loving being. Because only man has the true capacity for rational thinking, he is in this way also made in God's image. Also, man is intelligent; aware of his surroundings and capable of changing them. He does not act on instinct, but should be able to control his natural drives for higher purposes.

God has given man free will, which likewise reflects God's image. Every man has the ability to choose for himself his actions. He is morally aware. Man understands that certain things are good and certain things are evil. Before the fall, Adam and Eve had no experiential knowledge of good and evil, but they most certainly understood that they should obey God's commands. If this were not so, God warning them about punishment if they disobeyed Him would have no meaning to them, and the fall could be viewed as entrapment on God's part. Adam most certainly did understand that disobeying the will of God was wrong, and there could be dire consequences to his actions. Although we now must struggle against our evil nature to obey God, we still have moral understanding and comprehension of good and evil.

Lastly, one of the ways the image of God manifests itself in man is that only man can be aware of God and is capable of fellowshipping with Him. This part of man was exercised freely in the Garden before the fall. All men still are able to comprehend God's existence, but none are able to fellowship with Him unless they have been born again in Christ. Obviously, the universality of religion shows that awareness of God and some need for a relationship with Him is common to man.

Your question has the implication that those people who have mental or physical deficiencies are somehow not created in the image of God. I find that this is not true. Because some of the aspects we associate with God's image may not be operating properly, it doesn't mean the person is devoid of God's image. Rather, it shows that the image is somehow skewed or distorted. I liken this to an analogy of a car being made in a certain likeness (such as the body style of a corvette). When it is wrecked, the damage does not nullify the idea of being formed in that likeness, but shows the image as defective and in need of repair. Every person who is aware, no matter how slight his mental faculties, lives by some ethic, some moral code, and some decision-making processes. This re-emphasizes importance of our Redeemer's work in the lives of men, for only He can create a heart in man that is not distorted and seeks His will.

hopefully that answered your question.. let me know what you think

So god has a cock?

And nose hair?

quote:Originally posted by ck_psy_sjk:

Your question has the implication that those people who have mental or physical deficiencies are somehow not created in the image of God.

i'm not talking about any specific people i am talking about all people in general. all people have the ability to commit acts of immense evil, knowingly or not, and this is the main point i am trying to make. if we, as a whole race, are created in gods image then god must also be flawed for if we are capable of something then he too is capable of it. in fact humans in general will turn more towards acts of "evil" rather than towards "good" due to inherent flaws in our nature. a person will often choose too make millions of dollars of the suffering of others rather than donate his time and money to charity because it is easier. people will leave a homeless man dying on the street rather than help him out because they don't care. if we are created in the image of god and as you say it is more our spirit rather than body that this refers to, then god must be flawed. he cannot be perfect if he is ANYTHING like us so he is not worthy of worship.

on a separate point you mentioned about how adam defied gods will and choose the wrong thing to do. adam could be said to be the most like god, if indeed we are in his image, as he was the first creation, man in its purest form untainted by genetic mutation or environment, living in paradise and close to god. even with all this he still chose the 'wrong' path and defied god. this alone is a great enough argument that god as portrayed in the bible, and the idea that if he does exist that we are anything like him, is wrong. adam, who was more like god than any who came after (maybe excluding jesus but thats another rant) was still able to choose the wrong path, hence, if we are like god, god is also capable of making the wrong decision. i'm sure that creating satan would be a strike in the mistake category, and letting him continue to exist probably wasn't such a good idea either. therefore god cannot be worthy of worship and cannot be held above us on a higher standing because if we are anything like him he is fallible and capable of the wrong choice. just like a poor general is cast aside by his men so must god be cast aside by us.

(on a side note all this is from the hypothetical point of view that god exists. personally i don't believe there is a being like god but that there is something out there that created us. i just don't think it cares or is worthy of worship.)

yes, adam was God's image, untill he fell into tempation, tempted by the serpent.. which was satan?

mate, satan was not created

satan, once was a angel

now, he is a befallen angel

and he roams this earth

i am, protected, because i am a christian

satan, is not in hell

he will be, that is his punishment,

but untill then, he is roaming around earth.

but another thought, is that he has many many demons working for him

God is Spirit, true; but He also has a spiritual body which resembles ours in every aspect: arms, legs, head, etc.. The Scriptures make this very clear, especially the Old Testament where He was seen many times. Jacob even wrestled with Him. Couldn't beat Him, though. Probably should've used a sleeper hold.

Considering god would be all encompassing, he harbors all the wills that man does at the same time. A better question is: what does "made in his image" mean? What's his image? I mean, we all look different, we all have different POV's, we speak different languages, have different ideals, ethics, and morals. But, there does seem to be a core to humanity where everyone is, on some level, the same. Could this core be the image of god that we're trying to define? And what is at the core of humanity, really, if you want to get specific? Is it pure goodness, oneness, peace, love, and happiness, or is it greed, envy, and despair?

Are humans naturally good or naturally evil at the core of the matter and is this a reflection of god?

Cheers,

Lost

hmm..

all humans are born good, but they have sinned, from being born, sin then invovles into death, if im correct

quote:Originally posted by Pow r T och:

God is Spirit, true; but He also has a spiritual body which resembles ours in every aspect: arms, legs, head, etc..

For what purpose?

I don't see why you can't ressurect this idea in your head.

God is good, he has free will, he chooses to always be good.

Humans are good, we have free will, we can choose to be bad or good.

We have the ability to be just like God, we just choose not to.

You can also say kind of what Lost said, if God = Love then the core of humanity must be love and that is how we are created in "his image".

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

I don't see why you can't ressurect this idea in your head.

God is good, he has free will, he chooses to always be good.

Humans are good, we have free will, we can choose to be bad or good.

We have the ability to be just like God, we just choose not to.

You can also say kind of what Lost said, if God = Love then the core of humanity must be love and that is how we are created in "his image".

Why do you asume that god chooses to be good. Suppose we really are here as a creation of 'god'. Given the torment so many humans are forced to endure (go look up images of starving third world children or depleted uranium weapon effects), if our only purpose is serve and love god, then aren't we really only here for his amusement. The very creation of the human world would be an evil act if he loved us, especially if he would fill it with so much temptation that would lead us to eternal torture. You can't claim that thats all the work of satan because that would be denying that satan is an extension of god. You could claim that satan is closer to our level and has free will to try and rise above god, but if god is really the highest form of existence, then wouldn't satan, being familiar with god and thus higher on the knowledge chain, realize this and give up his attempts. Even a moron human would give up after millenium. Is satan really an idiot. I don't think so, but more importantly his nature is considered sadistic, taking pleasure in his job otherwise he wouldn't do it since he has some level of free will. Thus if he enjoys it he is being rewarded by gods system because so many humans are forced to endure it. Thus god being allknowing, knowingly created a system which would please satan, or if you see satan as an extension of god, his own evil side. Therefore it is my conclusion that god is at least just as evil as he is good, thus man really is made in his image.

Either that or god really had no control over the evil influence in the universe, so you cant say he's the highest form of existence, so it is pointless to worship him

quote:Originally posted by ck_psy_sjk:



hopefully that answered your question.. let me know what you think

I think you just plagiarized.

http://www.comereason.org/theo_issues/theo080.asp

Well there's the Christian version of things. (Based on the Bible which has changed so many times over the years that how can this be valid?)

There's the whole existentialist view that we're all god. It makes sense (What the bleep do we know [it's movie, watch it])

if you think of how powerful our thoughts are. Our mere ideas can elicit strong emotions (anger to murder, lust to rape)and our thoughts affect our perception of reality. To cite from What the Bleep... when Columbus's ships sailed within view of the Native Americans, they couldn't see them. It was so foreign to them that they couldn't comprehend what they saw right away. So if they couldn't comprehend something as "simple" as sails, then what can't we see?

So we create our own collective reality, so we're not really made from one entitie's views, but how we accept our reality.

[hmm different idea on totse... *prepares for flaming...]

Didnt read answers though i doubt htis one is there, and it is the only answer that can satisf the mind that asks such a question

Ok so I regularly ask this same question to priests. They never have the right answer (well rarely) see the obviuos answer is this- god can be perfect and we aren't and god doesn't lose his perfection through us because god does not adhere to any of the rules our minds have created. God can not be described by our minds, we do not posess the capacity to comprehen the ways in which god can exist. simple as that

Question:

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Think about it.

X : )

Good question...

that depends... does god have a navel?

oh yes and if you believe god created us all, why DID he create all the deformed and retarded kids? ( i never realy got an answer to that one)

God doesn't control everything that happens in one's life or in the world, like He's playing a video game. Shit happens. His creation is cursed and ruled by the evil one. So you have earthquakes and retarded babies. Supposedly to build your faith.

quote:Originally posted by SpookyKid:

Question:

Did Adam and Eve have navels?

Think about it.

X : )



If you'd ever seen Hedwig And The Angry Inch you'd know the answer to that question.

Cheers,

Lost

It's not really a physical thing, it's a spiritual one. We all possess a bit of the divine spark, which we can reveal by being better people. He said 'Be holy for I am holy.' Gross oversimplification, but it's six in the morning and I'll check back later to see if anybody wants to pursue that train of thought.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

I don't see why you can't ressurect this idea in your head.

God is good, he has free will, he chooses to always be good.

Humans are good, we have free will, we can choose to be bad or good.

We have the ability to be just like God, we just choose not to.

You can also say kind of what Lost said, if God = Love then the core of humanity must be love and that is how we are created in "his image".

But, for questioning sake, and not for answers sake: what if love isn't the core of humanity?

We'd all like to think it is. But, what if it isn't?

Just speculation.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Pow r T och:

God doesn't control everything that happens in one's life or in the world, like He's playing a video game. Shit happens. His creation is cursed and ruled by the evil one. So you have earthquakes and retarded babies. Supposedly to build your faith.

bullshit. the whole definition of god revolves around the concept that he's omniprescent (everywhere) and omnipotent (all powerful) hence he IS meant to control everything. if he did build this world and build us then he controls it all. he also built the devil and hell and suffering and anguish and evil. how do you curse an all powerful being and creater of all? you can't, hence if he does exist he is as sick as we are for creating a world such as this when he could have made anything he wanted. this leads back to the whole "if we're created in his image then he's fucked up too or we're really nothing like him at all"

(once again this is not saying that god really does exist its just hypothesising that he does)

quote:Originally posted by pot_prince:

bullshit. the whole definition of god revolves around the concept that he's omniprescent (everywhere) and omnipotent (all powerful) hence he IS meant to control everything. if he did build this world and build us then he controls it all. he also built the devil and hell and suffering and anguish and evil. how do you curse an all powerful being and creater of all? you can't, hence if he does exist he is as sick as we are for creating a world such as this when he could have made anything he wanted. this leads back to the whole "if we're created in his image then he's fucked up too or we're really nothing like him at all"

(once again this is not saying that god really does exist its just hypothesising that he does)

Just because he can doesn't mean he does.

Cheers,

Lost