I was think and me being a 7th Day Adventist I got to thinking what about the people that truly believe that their religion is the right religion because thats how they were raised. Now some people in other countrys haven't heard the teachings of God. So what if all the religions were the right religions. I mean think about it I don't God would send over a million people to hell just because they didn't know the right religion. What are you guy's thoughts on this?

i think if there was a god, they wouldn't make billions of people just to send them to hell

Point taken.

quote:Originally posted by cheapandugly:

i think if there was a god, they wouldn't make billions of people just to send them to hell

duh

just one more reason i gave up on religion

I think that God wouldn't send good people that did great things in the world to hell. I mean look at all the people like Ghandi. He was a Hindu but what he did for his country was great.

Catholic point of view: God sends no one to hell. God only let's people who cannont stand to be in direct communion with his perfection remain separate from him in hell.

note: xXPhoenixFireXx: God sends no one to hell

BUT if you do not tell ALL of your sins to your preist you have a very high risk of going to hell

Remember, not confessing is a symptom not a cause.

[This message has been edited by xXPhoenixFireXx (edited 05-26-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by xXPhoenixFireXx:

Catholic point of view: God sends no one to hell. God only let's people who cannont stand to be in direct communion with his perfection remain separate from him in hell.

Then the Catholics are dumb. "God" is omniscient, and so he must have known everything that would occur in the universe before he created it, including that a huge percentage of the human population would either never know about him or his teachings, or never accept him as their god. And, he still created it. So, he sent all those people to hell. Claiming otherwise would be like claiming that a person isn't responsible for a murder because they only pulled the trigger and the bullet moved on it's own accord.

quote:Originally posted by xXPhoenixFireXx:

Catholic point of view: God sends no one to hell. God only let's people who cannont stand to be in direct communion with his perfection remain separate from him in hell.



this is jsut a twisted version of the original christian view of things: no one geos to hell. we all go the same place, but too those in communion with god it is heaven and to those not in communion with god it is the worst fate imaginable ie:hell.

and as for what oyu said J-15 about everyone being right, check out hinduism in deth. it sorta thinks this. and for a religion that really believes this(but is a lil fucked up in my opinion) look up sai baba or sathi sai baba i think. or sai sadan. you should find stufff liek that.

How could all world religions be correct? They all are mutually exclusive, and have conflicting views. And about the people who have never heard the message of the one true God: God is self-evident. Why do you think God has so many names?

Mother and father have a child. he's a problem child, but they do everything the can to raise him well. But he snapps and kills hundreds of people with a bomb. Therefore the parent's killed hundreds of people.

Right... the differece between the bullet and us is that we can choose. People have kids even though they know their kids might snap and do lot's of nasty things. Why? Because life with free will is better than no life at all.

spyxero, if you can't attempt to use decent grammer, I can't properly reply, although I will try. I suppose that you hope that if I can't read what you say, I'll admit defeat... Whatever.

Twisted view of the original? Umm, not twisted, it's different, although I believe that it is THE original.

The same place? Umm......nope. It's two different places. One has God and one doesn't. People do go to hell, but only because they'd rather not be with God.

I repeat: God sends no one to hell, people send themselves to hell. Knowing something doesn't mean that you cause it. Sure God could have just not created anyone of made them slaves, but any "free" life is better than no life at all.

Of course not all religions are correct. However pieces of every one are correct, even if that piece is only that there is a higher power. I exclude athiesm because it's a total lack of religion.

[This message has been edited by xXPhoenixFireXx (edited 05-29-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by cheapandugly:

i think if there was a god, they wouldn't make billions of people just to send them to hell

I can't believe so many of you are buying that.

Geez. Listen, I'm an atheist so I'm speaking neutral here: if there is a god and he created people and he gave them freewill, he does not cause them to do bad things. He doesn't create bad things, he doesn't condemn. I imagine, he has better shit to do.

People make the world bad, not god. I mean, fuck, just because he made us doesn't mean he is us. And whatever about being in his image: who the fucking fuck knows what gods image is anyways?!

Cheers,

Lost

99% of all religions are based being loving and forgiving. Now take the Islam not the terrorist version which has been twisted to fit them but he actual religion. Ok then take the teachings of Hindu and Buhddist religons. They all teach love, peace, forgivness, and all that other stuff.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

And whatever about being in his image: who the fucking fuck knows what gods image is anyways?!



You know, Lost, I was thinking about that the other day. What if God's image is not a physical shape, but God's character? In that context, it makes a hell of a lot more sense for us to be made in God's image. Humans love to create, have anger, have a sense of justice, and humans have the capability to love. All these things we share with God. His image... maybe...?

-SeussSmith

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:



Geez. Listen, I'm an atheist so I'm speaking neutral here: if there is a god and he created people and he gave them freewill, he does not cause them to do bad things. He doesn't create bad things, he doesn't condemn. I imagine, he has better shit to do.

People make the world bad, not god. I mean, fuck, just because he made us doesn't mean he is us. And whatever about being in his image: who the fucking fuck knows what gods image is anyways?!

Cheers,

Lost

God is omniscient rite? He knowingly crated people that do badly. The kid snaps and kills hundreds of people with a bomb; god knew this and didn’t even stop it with his omnipotence because he had better shit to do. Lovely.

You missed the point, TeckGuru. God created people with free will. If God stopped every bad thing from happening, then there would be no free will, thus you wouldn't be saying that.

-SeussSmith

quote:Originally posted by TeckGuru:

God is omniscient rite? He knowingly crated people that do badly. The kid snaps and kills hundreds of people with a bomb; god knew this and didn’t even stop it with his omnipotence because he had better shit to do. Lovely.



A woman has a child. She knows that her child will one day do something wrong. When and what he does wrong are outside her control because she gave him his own life. If god exists the way Christians believe he does then god gave us our lives. They're ours to do with what we will. He knows we will do bad, but he hopes that ultimately we will do good.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by SeussSmith:

You know, Lost, I was thinking about that the other day. What if God's image is not a physical shape, but God's character? In that context, it makes a hell of a lot more sense for us to be made in God's image. Humans love to create, have anger, have a sense of justice, and humans have the capability to love. All these things we share with God. His image... maybe...?

-SeussSmith



Thank god. Amongst all the bullshit haggling about the same boring old rehashed and rethererehashed out arguments someone has made a philosophical breakthrough. Congradulations SeussSmith, you are not a moron.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by SeussSmith:

You missed the point, TeckGuru. God created people with free will. If God stopped every bad thing from happening, then there would be no free will, thus you wouldn't be saying that.

-SeussSmith

Where is the line between Gods omnipotence and our free will?

quote:Originally posted by TeckGuru:

Where is the line between Gods omnipotence and our free will?

The line between is a circle around the two. This is, i think, the proverbial "rock, so big.."

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

A woman has a child. She knows that her child will one day do something wrong. When and what he does wrong are outside her control because she gave him his own life. If god exists the way Christians believe he does then god gave us our lives. They're ours to do with what we will. He knows we will do bad, but he hopes that ultimately we will do good.

Cheers,

Lost

The analogy doesn't work.

The mother in that scenario can certainly hope that the sons will do good. She can do so because she does not know what they will do in the future. God does.

Since the Christian god knows what they will do, then there is no "hoping they will do good", there is "knowing that they will do bad (or good)".

That god knew what his creation will do bad/evil in the future, and then creating them anyways, makes him guilty. At least, by any definition in virtually all legal/moral codes of conducts in the modern world.

For example that makes you an accessory to a crime, and by Judeo-Christian morality, guilty of a sin by omission.

God gave people free will.

For main topic:

People are drawn to the true religon, if you find the right religon, you'll be drawn to it, and want to go to it. So if you don't like the religon your in, give others a try, I did that, and is working for me! Also, there is no hell. the "hell" referred to in the bible is a place in Jersuleam? (spelling) people threw there garbage and the dead to burn, there is no coming back/living from this so when you go in it, your done. Just like "hell" it is a fiqurative place where god sends people who are nto worthy into destruction - but there is alot more on this, and the debait can go on forever.

[This message has been edited by john_deer (edited 05-31-2005).]

According to the Bible. There is no hell untill after Jesus second arrival. Therefore he will take all of the people he considers good to heaven and all that is evil will stay on Earth and wait till God destroys them all. Then a New Jerusulem(sp).

It is very likely that "God" is simply an extra-dimensional creature interracting with us intermittently and that this perceive "punishment" is really just a rash extra-dimensional child's reaction to his toys not working as he wants them. Free will is an illusion jsut as distance and time are if omnipotence can exist. If all is known, and they would have to be by an omniscient being, then we simply would not ahve a choice. If one can see the future, a choice is not there for the specific effect can only be caused by one specific cause. Now, "God" being either an extra-dimensional or simply a highly advanced extra-terrestrial creature that just seems amazing compaired to our current abilities... this preserves our collective humanist leanings and allows a higher power to exist.

Whoa! Well isn't that.....one heck of a theory.

QUOTE Originally posted by Gorloche:

It is very likely that "God" is simply an extra-dimensional creature interracting with us intermittently and that this perceive "punishment" is really just a rash extra-dimensional child's reaction to his toys not working as he wants them.

The flaw in this is that if the god that you are describing cant be the God of the Bible, since God is omnipotent and omniscient. His "toy" could not be in His control.

Free will is an illusion jsut as distance and time are if omnipotence can exist. If all is known, and they would have to be by an omniscient being, then we simply would not ahve a choice.

You use all-powerful and all-knowing to point out how it can not exist, but this is exactly HOW freewill CAN exist.

Now, "God" being either an extra-dimensional or simply a highly advanced extra-terrestrial creature that just seems amazing compaired to our current abilities... this preserves our collective humanist leanings and allows a higher power to exist./QUOTE

This does not allow for Original Sin, and the need for the Messiah.