~ In China: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=China

~ In Egypt: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Egypt

~ In Eritrea: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Eritrea

~ In Laos: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Laos

~ In Pakistan: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Pakistan

~ In Vietnam: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Vietnam

What do you all think about this ?

Do these Christians believe in their faith because they needed a crutch ? Are they participating to make their lives easier ?

Think this could happen in America ?

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 05-21-2005).]

In America they can at least pretend not to have a state religion so it is unlikly.

EDIT: Not to mention the majority or the government is usuauly doing the persecution.

[This message has been edited by MasterPython (edited 05-21-2005).]

Well, we've seen the Bible and the Ten Commandments taken out of school and government.

I don't consider that persecution at all...don't get me wrong. What has gone on here in America is nominal compared to that of other countries.

I just see a systematic increase of intolerance for Christianity...while I think we are a bit more ethical than China, it is possible that persecution may spread here on our own soil.

I'm not worried about it...I just read these stories and think about how lucky we have it to be able to worship any way we'd like.

So you think the persecution is directed at Christianity more than all other religions? I don't live in America so I really don't know what goes on there on a day to day basis.

In America ? Yes...I don't think it is persecution as much as it is intolerance.

I haven't seen anyone jailed for their faith in Christianity in America.

However, you are not allowed to bring a Bible to some schools, and in the same school, you are allowed to bring a prayer mat, if you are Muslim.

It seems as thought tolerance is extended to all other faiths but Christianity.

Where do you live ?

As a question to DS, in the vein of this thread: do you feel that you, yourself, are persecuted for your religous beliefs? I mean, besides that others may disagree?

Cheers,

Lost

In America I see Christians persecuted by our culture.

From the mainstream media, I think there is a general contempt for christianity. I really don't think that christians are persecuted, and the intolerance applies to every religion(christianity being near the bottom of the list for religion affected by intolerance).

We claim to be a culture of religious tolerance yet in the bible gods says he has givin all seed bearing plants unto us to USE. Hundreds of thousands of people(atleast) are prosecuted every year for possesion and distributtion of these so called "controled substances" have you ever woundered WHY they are called that? because they are trying to CONRTOL them for themselves. Our own government has been selling the shit for years, making trades and deals with the mafia, and taking out the competition legaly in the possess. George W himself is a known cokehead and does secret dealing in the stuff aswell.... You people want speration of church and state so dam badly that you loose your rights in the process

its not just the media that has a contempt for Christianity. More and more its just regular people

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

As a question to DS, in the vein of this thread: do you feel that you, yourself, are persecuted for your religous beliefs? I mean, besides that others may disagree?

Cheers,

Lost

Nope. Not at all.

Well, I do feel ostracized a lot of the time, but...that is NOTHING compared to what these people in China go through.

We will be missionaries within the next 6 years (Biblical college first), so we will begin to taste the suffering that they do.

It's a scary thought, but this is what God has instructed us to do, so...

We must.

Astralis...that wasn't really on topic.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

From the mainstream media, I think there is a general contempt for christianity. I really don't think that christians are persecuted, and the intolerance applies to every religion(christianity being near the bottom of the list for religion affected by intolerance).

I don't believe intolerance is experienced LEAST by Christianity in America.

We celebrate every other culture and their religious facets in school and in the work place...but God forbid we put a little Christianity into anything.

We don't talk about Christmas at school, because we might offend the Jews or the Muslims.

We have a Kwanzaa celebration, Yom Kippur, and everything else you can think of.

I think Christianity is pretty high on everyone's intolerance list.

No one has said what THEY THINK about this persecution.

Deserved ? Undeserved ? Going to far, or not far enough ?

If I might interject?

On the topic of America, we seem to be intolerate of any and all religions, yet in varying degrees. Christianity is most pressed upon by government, but for those who worship as Muslim, the people are most inrolerant. Does anyone remember the threat that tore through America after the terrorist attacks? A dark skinned man would have been better off in prison than wondering the streets.

We are allowed to practice any religion we like, yet society forbids the practice thereof. America is a great place to live, but would be greater still if our society followed the guidlines set before them by government. Then, perhaps, our ideals would be realised, and all religions would be free to exist.

ModelFifteen

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No one has said what THEY THINK about this persecution.

Deserved ? Undeserved ? Going to far, or not far enough ?

in my opinion, technically, no Christian in the world has ever been persecuted by people or governments (or even by other religions). We (Christians) are conquerers BECAUSE we are slaves.

And just so nobody thinks i have gone off the deep end, or 'buried my head', oblivious to what has/is happened/happening in the world:

Romans 8: 31-39

Ephesians 6: 11-13 (especially verse 12)

Colossians 1: 12-13

i think persecution of any religion at all is blind stupid and arrogant and disgusting not to mention repulsive. I dont live in the states but honestly is it that bad? Personally i think religion should be kept out of school altogether. What should be taught in school should be what everyone agrees on (or most people anyway) religion just isnt one of those things. On the note of bibles and prayer matts i think everyone should be allowed to bring anything to school as long as it can't within reason, hurt someone. my guess is that the intolerence towards christianity is basically the schools being too intent on not offending the minorities. its just another reason we should keep religion separate from school. oh yeah and digital_saviour, if your doing missionary work around asia then try come to sri lanka. we got a whole bunch of mad monks in parliment and 17.5 million people who are stupid enough to listen to them. could use a few missionaries.

*laughs*

Maybe we will, Sarith ! Thanks for the tip.

Is it really that bad over there ? How is Christianity received (opposed, approved of, or indifferent to) ?

Religion isn't a crutch.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I don't believe intolerance is experienced LEAST by Christianity in America.

We celebrate every other culture and their religious facets in school and in the work place...but God forbid we put a little Christianity into anything.

We don't talk about Christmas at school, because we might offend the Jews or the Muslims.

We have a Kwanzaa celebration, Yom Kippur, and everything else you can think of.

I think Christianity is pretty high on everyone's intolerance list.

None of it is government spoonsered, so there is little to complain about. Rammadan(sp?) Yom Kippur, Kwanza are all mentnion, but they're not celebrated by the mainstream. No religious holiday is, only their bastardized twin is(christmas and easter are two good examples).

I have never seen any celebration of Jews, Muslims, Black Africans(speaking of which, Kwanza is a cultural thing more than it is a religious thing).

Religion in general is avoided by most people, not embraced or rebuked.

Christianity and Judaism are both "persecuted" in America, Judaism just generally has to deal with the more violent form of persecution. The persecution of Christians is mostly a result of the bias against the mainstream that is rising in America more than a hatred. If Christians as a whole would defend themselves then it would probably lessen, but it is important to rember that there is a difference between self-defense and attacking someone else.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No one has said what THEY THINK about this persecution.

Deserved ? Undeserved ? Going to far, or not far enough ?

WTF?? America is secular in name only. Bush&CO./most middle americans are christians . I have only felt persecuted as a christian once in my entire life. That was when a psyco professor was trying to make evolution out to be the only possable way that we got here, to the point of failing anyone that argued.

quote:Originally posted by titan88:

WTF?? America is secular in name only. Bush&CO./most middle americans are christians . I have only felt persecuted as a christian once in my entire life. That was when a psyco professor was trying to make evolution out to be the only possable way that we got here, to the point of failing anyone that argued.

You have 88 in your name. I assume thats the year you were born. As such in conjuction with your post indicates to me you are not in touch with the american public and are spoon fed your lies by the liberal media.

Had you known what the american people think, and based on the Bush/Kerry election, your argument fails miserably. We have nearly 50/50 left and right in this country. Not all righties are religious, therefore the religious right is not a majority. In fdact, not all conservative republicans are religious. "OMG ArgonPlasma2000, did i just hear you correctly?"

Yea, you heard me. Only a small percentage of the so called religious right actually subscribe to religion. Lemme tell ya, having water sprinkled on you when you were a year old or going to church on Easter, or getting baptized doesnt make you any more religious than an atheist. All of those things are merely actions of a religion.

Did you know most Americans who say they are Christian dont even go to church?

In fact, take a look around your hole you live in. America is going down the shitter faster than a New Yorker's burrito lunch. Bush isnt even conservative, look at his policy on borders.





I hate to make blanket statements but most of you liberals are, a: misinformed, or b: too stupid to comprehend what is really going on.

the people i know who are intolerant of christians are the ones who have been subjected to the intolerance christians they have met have shown them. as long as people are different, people won't like each other. to go as far as calling it persecution, i'd say not. it'd be persecution when people are being jailed or killed for being christians.

i seem to remember american history with people who claim to be christians jailing or killing people for being different.

quote:Originally posted by titan88:

WTF?? America is secular in name only. Bush&CO./most middle americans are christians . I have only felt persecuted as a christian once in my entire life. That was when a psyco professor was trying to make evolution out to be the only possable way that we got here, to the point of failing anyone that argued.

I was talking about Christian persecution abroad.

Try to follow, please.

I don't agree with persecuting Christians, but I also don't like puritanical, and moral absolutist sentiments among some Christians in general. Which are much more extreme among Muslims, and certain groups in Judaism. Christianity can be a decent honorable belief.

I don't like double standards in treatment of religion.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, we've seen the Bible and the Ten Commandments taken out of school and government.

I don't consider that persecution at all...don't get me wrong. What has gone on here in America is nominal compared to that of other countries.

I just see a systematic increase of intolerance for Christianity...while I think we are a bit more ethical than China, it is possible that persecution may spread here on our own soil.

I'm not worried about it...I just read these stories and think about how lucky we have it to be able to worship any way we'd like.

I'd like to see a document placed in schools that appeals to all. All religions, and even non-religious groups often share the same basic principles of conduct. Other than that I'd like to see a form of Asatru become more commonplace.

Decency, Honor, Respect, and Loyalty are lacking in general and are often reinforced if one follows a non-absolutist religion that doesn't divide things into black and white, and that doesn't cater to selfish behavior. Following something that believes in being upright and honorable without slave morality.

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 05-27-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

~ In China: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=China

~ In Egypt: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Egypt

~ In Eritrea: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Eritrea

~ In Laos: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Laos

~ In Pakistan: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Pakistan

~ In Vietnam: http://www.persecution.com/basic/prisonerList.cfm?Country=Vietnam

What do you all think about this ?

Do these Christians believe in their faith because they needed a crutch ? Are they participating to make their lives easier ?

Think this could happen in America ?



China: So communists dont like religion (esp. foreign ones). What's new?

The bulk of the other countries on the "Prayer map" are Muslim. So the question becomes "WTF do you expect?"

Documenting Christian persecution of other religions/beliefs over the last thousand years could fill the pages of several hundred books, so whining about how our past is catching up with us is pretty rich.

And when, as a Christian, I wince when a Christian leader says he is going to engage in a 21st century "CRUSADE against terror", How on earth do you think Muslim governments and peoples would have reacted?

"As you sow,so shall you reap" Galatians 6:7

In communist china the athiests convert you.

being a christian is kind of like being white, i'd assume... both are now almost treated as a "bad" (i don't mean bad, per se, but for the lack of a milder, more suitable word) thing, through the removing of christian elements in school and government, and the comparable affirmative action.

However, christianity is ingrained to a ridiculous extent in this country - officials are sworn in on a bible, you take the oath on a bible, to my knowledge, every last government official in a position of power is a christian. So, no, there is no danger of such persecution. At the maximum, there is, and will be a strict seperation of church and state, as it should be.