i never post in this forum but i do read the topics from time to time.

well...for the past few years my religion has been a litte shaky. ive grown up in a methodist church right in the middle of the bible belt (east tennessee). i mean the center of my town is church circle which has about 5 churches all next to each other. my mom and dad are both very religious and get very angry when i use God's name in vain or say i dont want to go to church.

at the moment i consider myself agnostic. i'm not one of those people who are proud of being agnostic. i'd love to believe in god and believe that there is an afterlife and that there is a superior being who has unconditional love for me...but there is something in me that just can't accept that.

i try and believe but since i have doubt i know that that just doesn't cut it. ah im having trouble explaining myself.

oh my fellow totseans...i need something to believe. i don't want to die and cease to exist http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

You are using your mind wisely. You grew up in a community that absolutely stressed a certain belief and you questioned that and decided to believe what you thought was right. You are still upset because you are not with the rest of your community on the topic as you do not believe in their god. Your religion is your decision.

No matter what you believe, the same thing will happen to you when you die. Your believing isn't going to change it. Don't suffer over it during life. Live your life so your message/spirit/beliefs will live on eternal after your death.

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

You are using your mind wisely. You grew up in a community that absolutely stressed a certain belief and you questioned that and decided to believe what you thought was right. You are still upset because you are not with the rest of your community on the topic as you do not believe in their god. Your religion is your decision.

No matter what you believe, the same thing will happen to you when you die. Your believing isn't going to change it. Don't suffer over it during life. Live your life so your message/spirit/beliefs will live on eternal after your death.



T-Bag, what are you? I think you said you are a non-christian, or maybe it was an athiest.

I guess that doesn't matter, but you know prefectly well, that if the Christians are right, then it does matter if one believes and it matters what that belief is. I'm pretty sure the same goes for the Jews... and Islam... in fact, i am pretty sure that, that goes for just about every religion...

If << religion X >> is right, it matters that the belief is in agreement with that religion.

I think it would also apply to religion/belief systems that have no god i.e. Buhdism .... but maybe to a lesser degree.

Now, if atheism is correct, then i guess it doesnt matter the beliefs.



Encouraging someone to examine and to think is a great thing, even if that person is not sure what to believe or shakey in their faith... but unless you know 100 percent sure that beliefs do not matter the outcome, i think you owe that person some honesty since eternity is more important than life or death.

This is the best post we've had here in a while.

I'll be back to respond when I'm not stoned out of my head.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

This is the best post we've had here in a while.

I'll be back to respond when I'm not stoned out of my head.

Cheers,

Lost

bump

just curious to what you were going to say about mjolnir's post

Crap... I feel the same way, I used to be all christian and stuff, but somehow I just lost my faith and crap... Like at a certain point I just couldn't believe... But like still now, somewhere deep inside I almost feel like I believe but there's too many things that like... Don't make sense...

Crap I want to believe so bad...

quote:Originally posted by B-Phaze:

Crap... I feel the same way, I used to be all christian and stuff, but somehow I just lost my faith and crap... Like at a certain point I just couldn't believe... But like still now, somewhere deep inside I almost feel like I believe but there's too many things that like... Don't make sense...

Crap I want to believe so bad...



Most people i know with super religious parents resent them and the religion that is forced down their throat. It's kindof that anti- or questioning faze of things that everyone goes through when growing up.

I would probably try not to worry about it. If I were you I would probably try to set the issue aside for the time being and pick it up when I was a little older. As you're probably between the ages of 15-18, why not drop it, and really, really pick up the issue when you're older and more mature, so you can decide and not have someone else do it for you.

I'm 18, used to go to church, parents had a falling out with it and we no longer go. I really have no idea what to think about religion. I do believe in god, jesus, but I plan on getting started on taking on the issue (taking some classes in college/talking to people/looking deep into my beliefs) to figure out what I'm going to do with regard to religion and my deepest beliefs.

And if you know something is there, why don't you pray about it instead of sitting on totse asking other people's opinions. You may get some more satisfying answers there?

EDIT: Meant to quote the original post, but i suppose this may go for B-Phaze too.

[This message has been edited by drBOX (edited 05-28-2005).]

This is not to say that I am a leading authority on the subject...heck, I am going to college for it in the fall...but if anyone here would like to hash out Christianity, I'd be more than happy to.

I do this nightly with several other members of Totse.

I use AIM, and my screen name is:

desired hush

Just like that.

I don't bite, and we always have a good time.

I hope to hear from at least two of you on this forum soon.

God bless you and keep you, all of your days.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

This is not to say that I am a leading authority on the subject...heck, I am going to college for it in the fall...but if anyone here would like to hash out Christianity, I'd be more than happy to.

I do this nightly with several other members of Totse.

I use AIM, and my screen name is:

desired hush

Just like that.

I don't bite, and we always have a good time.

I hope to hear from at least two of you on this forum soon.

God bless you and keep you, all of your days.

...That made me smile, donno why. I suppose it's easy to talk about getting back to my most deeply seated beliefs, but when it comes time to delve into the subject, it's overwhelming.

Props to, "the rode to hell is littered with good inention..." (i think that's how that quote went.)

Maybe you'll hear from me sometime.

I need a cigarette.

[This message has been edited by drBOX (edited 05-28-2005).]

thanks for the input everyone...i would've responded earlier but i just got home.

ill try and post again early tomorrow maybe later tonight if i haven't passed out from exhaustion.

it's a relief to find out that im not the only one who feels this way and that others have apparently dealt with this problem successfully(T-BagBikerStar) and found closure, but that still doesn't excuse this feeling if God does in fact exist. maybe the origins of my problem are more deeply rooted with having faith in anything than just simply religion? i don't really know what to think.

oh and drBox i have tried praying about it...it didn't help me. i'm not sure of what i was expecting from totse but it felt right at the time to ask here since if i even hinted at the fact that i don't believe in god or that my faith is the least bit shaky i would be shunned by everyone in this city including my friends and family. the only person i have ever told that i was agnostic is my girlfriend...and you fine people here b http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)d

digital_savior i might just have to take you up on that offer sometime in the future...and im still eagerly awaiting lostcause's post http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

eh hope this post has been coherent and legible. my bed is calling me.

Don't let faith become a burden, there is nothing wrong with examining ones faith and challenging it, a true faith will only get stronger. Just live life.

I think that when we pray we ought to try not to "expect" something to change, based on our own requirements.

To live for God is to embrace His will for your life.

If you prayed, "God, I am having a tough time about [insert brick-wall-of-the-day here], and I need your guidance. Show me what you want me to learn, and help me to seek You in all things. Thank you for loving me. Amen.", you would definitely get the result you are looking for. NOT expecting brings the answers.

However, if your prayer sounds like this, "Lord, I am struggling with this. I need some answers. I am tired of waiting...where are you ?", then you will most likely end up waiting a very long time.

God works in His own time, you must remember. Since I became a Christian, I have come to accept the fact that God works when HE wants to, which is consequently exactly when we NEED Him to.

This generally happens at the last moment, right before we are about to give up on Him.

This is called "testing the faith". You learn from it, and He develops a deeper relationship with you because of it.

Have you tried taking your concerns to a more experienced Christian ? Such as a pastor of a non-denominational church ?

It is not wise to fight these spiritual battles alone.

Oh, and you'd BETTER take me up on my offer, dood !

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

xtreem, believing itself wouldn't matter for a non-dualistic religion. Actually, of the major religions, I think only the western ones make belief a requirement for a positive afterlife.

mjolnir, that step takes courage to make. Best of luck whatever you decide.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I think that when we pray we ought to try not to "expect" something to change, based on our own requirements.

To live for God is to embrace His will for your life.

If you prayed, "God, I am having a tough time about [insert brick-wall-of-the-day here], and I need your guidance. Show me what you want me to learn, and help me to seek You in all things. Thank you for loving me. Amen.", you would definitely get the result you are looking for. NOT expecting brings the answers.

However, if your prayer sounds like this, "Lord, I am struggling with this. I need some answers. I am tired of waiting...where are you ?", then you will most likely end up waiting a very long time.

God works in His own time, you must remember. Since I became a Christian, I have come to accept the fact that God works when HE wants to, which is consequently exactly when we NEED Him to.

This generally happens at the last moment, right before we are about to give up on Him.

This is called "testing the faith". You learn from it, and He develops a deeper relationship with you because of it.

Have you tried taking your concerns to a more experienced Christian ? Such as a pastor of a non-denominational church ?

It is not wise to fight these spiritual battles alone.

Oh, and you'd BETTER take me up on my offer, dood !

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

It is o.k. to question your faith. I did that for about 2 years when I was 16 and 17 or so. I did not go out and go crazy, but God and I had some nice long talks. I believe that God wants us to ask him questions. I agree with everything ^ ^ sais. Every christian will go through a period of doubt in his/her life, that is ok.

When Jesus came back from the dead he said something to the effect that it is better for those that come after and do not touch my wounds. Essentially meaning that it will take a greater amount of faith for those that are not alive when he is.

Last thing. I do not condone going to college without knowing who you are, either emotional, physically, or spiritually. There are too many bad influences, and you can fall into the different traps very easily. Try and figure out what you need to before you go and attend college. This will make it so you have a good foundation to stand on. Also, always know your limits.

sorry it was so long.

toodle pip

hey mjolnir (nice name btw) dont worry that youve lost youre faith for the time being. I lost mine when i was like 14 or so(now 20) and I'm still fighting to express and figure out what i believe in. its not easy, in fact its really frustrating and even scary at times but its worth it to make sure that you are believing wht you think is right and not blindly following everything other people say.blind faith is part of any belief system, but reasoning and questions are also part of it. if you want someone to talk to who has gone through and is still goin through the same type or thing msngr me at rider__x@hotmail.com.

I think your problem, mjolnir, is the same that mine was a few years ago. I grew up in the same area you did(Knoxville), and I know what you mean. I was fed up with religious hypocrites cramming their beliefs(that they can't even back up) down my throat. I was sick of institutions and them "making up" their own version of the will of God. Yet I still believed in God, the need for salvation, and Jesus.

Then I realized why. Jesus isn't a religion, in fact he hated religion and institutionalism as much as you probably do. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. I checked into all my questions about the things that didn't make sense, and when I looked into it a little deeper, it all fit together. I now have an unshakeable faith in Jesus and everything He's done for me. Good luck with your search for truth. If you have any questions, email me at VillageBlacksmith@gmail.com

-SeussSmith

I was once a Christian myself. As I approached the time in which I would become an atheist I also had a fear of not existing. This fear is what caused me to hang onto Christianity and it's promises of heaven and eternal existence. For a time I even felt that it would be better to infinitely exist in hell than to not exist at all. A helpful quote to remember on this matter comes from Epicurus: "Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not." This means that after you expire you will never experience death in the way that your consciousness allows you to experience things now making any discomfort associated with death impossible. You can even think of the time before you were born or before you began to exist as a type of death. In such a way your death will only return you to this state.



[This message has been edited by Perspicacious (edited 05-28-2005).]

How are you so sure of this? Have you ever spoken to anyone who has died? Have you died yourself? Or are you simply basing your entire theology on one(dead) man's views?

-SeussSmith

How are you so sure of this? Have you ever spoken to anyone who has died? Have you died yourself? Or are you simply basing your entire theology on one(dead) man's views?

-SeussSmith

---------------------------------------------

As an atheist I have no theistic beliefs in the way of what will happen to myself and others after death. Lacking theistic or otherwise supernatural beliefs about what will occur after death non-existence occurs to me as the default. This is a conclusion that I arrived upon myself. The reason that I choose to quote Epicurus is that I feel he articulates a part of my position well (that not existing should not be feared). I do not, as you imply, take my position solely from Epicurus and blindly use him as an authority on death.

[This message has been edited by Perspicacious (edited 05-29-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by mjolnir:



oh my fellow totseans...i need something to believe. i don't want to die and cease to exist http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)



believe in this: there is more to ponder in life than there is to understand... and this is good.

so no one knows what happens to the mind after life. do not strive to recover your faith, nor to dismiss it. be an open vessel for truth, and truth alone. if you are true to this aim, you will not err.

We feel ourselves so permeated, it's hard to grasp our own inexistence. Our reality is so crushing it's difficult to imagine a universe aside it. But, the truth is no one knows anything about how permeated we are, or how real we are, or where we come from, or where we're going, or why we're here.

There are answers to ever question; and I believe that. But, I don't believe that an answer is worth more than it's question. I believe that these are questions that teach more without answers.

You will not find any religion, no doctrine, no philosophy, no theory, no government, no scientific study, nothing that is perfect in a way that you can accept without reasonable doubt. Don't try to pigeon hole yourself. It's okay to wander, if you are who you hope you are, you wont stray far from the truth.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

We feel ourselves so permeated, it's hard to grasp our own inexistence. Our reality is so crushing it's difficult to imagine a universe aside it. But, the truth is no one knows anything about how permeated we are, or how real we are, or where we come from, or where we're going, or why we're here.

There are answers to ever question; and I believe that. But, I don't believe that an answer is worth more than it's question. I believe that these are questions that teach more without answers.

You will not find any religion, no doctrine, no philosophy, no theory, no government, no scientific study, nothing that is perfect in a way that you can accept without reasonable doubt. Don't try to pigeon hole yourself. It's okay to wander, if you are who you hope you are, you wont stray far from the truth.

Cheers,

Lost



Excellent sentiments, Lost. This truely was worth the wait. I was beginning to wonder if you thought his post was good, only from a stoned POV; and once you 'sobered', you had maybe changed your mind.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:



Excellent sentiments, Lost. This truely was worth the wait. I was beginning to wonder if you thought his post was good, only from a stoned POV; and once you 'sobered', you had maybe changed your mind.

Thank you, xtreem. I do what I can. It's threads like this that keep me coming back.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

We feel ourselves so permeated, it's hard to grasp our own inexistence. Our reality is so crushing it's difficult to imagine a universe aside it. But, the truth is no one knows anything about how permeated we are, or how real we are, or where we come from, or where we're going, or why we're here.

There are answers to ever question; and I believe that. But, I don't believe that an answer is worth more than it's question. I believe that these are questions that teach more without answers.

You will not find any religion, no doctrine, no philosophy, no theory, no government, no scientific study, nothing that is perfect in a way that you can accept without reasonable doubt. Don't try to pigeon hole yourself. It's okay to wander, if you are who you hope you are, you wont stray far from the truth.

Cheers,

Lost

wow beautiful Lost it was worth the wait

and once again thanks everyone for the thoughtout responses