So this will all be coming randomly from my head, please forgive me if it's not completely coherent or of organized thought.

This goes to anyone who does or does not believe in god.



So much today there's the concept of the continued degradation of society. The idea that things in this world have continually gotten worse and continue to compound in a way of which there will be no hope for redemption.

Terrorism, political corruption, gay marriage, racism, euthanasia, abortion, capital punishment, the continued destruction of moral values in the media and society, the incredible void between the western culture vs. others, etc. etc. (I could seemingly go on forever)

I think that today, most people view these issues as almost too much to overcome. I think that too often conservative christians scream bloody murder over the journey that this world is going through, and proclaim or pray for the rapture, or return of jesus christ.

I think it's that old people syndrom for those who may not believe in god, but have indignation for the state of things. I always picture that old man condemning the state of society, and the youth. I picutre him describing how things used to be, and how all things are now going to hell in a hand basket.

The point is, who the hell are we to say what society is going to? Who is the old man to say society is going to hell? And who is the christian conservative to proclaim the return of christ because of the continued breakdown of society, morals and faith.

I think back into the things I've learned in my history books and throughout school. I think shit, if I were worried about the end of the world, or the terrible end times written about in the Bible before the return of christ, I could place the brink of disaster at half a dozen different points in time.

If I were in Europe during the plaque, or world war one, or world war two, especially with the holocaust going on, an alarm in my head would go off and I would think, yep, the end draws near.

I think that so many times in the past, things have been worse than they are currently today. I think that in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of us live pretty short, miniscule lives and just do not have the life experience to judge soberly our current state of affairs. Truly, we have only read about these times in our text books, and cannot judge to the same degree as that of which we may have lived that experience.

I think that in America, much of this trend in thought has come from the cadaclysmic events of September 11, and the continual bombardment of fear propaganda by the Bush administration and the media.

I think that always, always, the world just barely seems to slip by and play host to our adventures for just another day. I think that's proved by me sitting here writing this and you sitting there reading it. I think that the end of the world and the return of christ plays very much into the human psyche and psychology, as well as some sort of survival instinct instilled in all of us of which when things are bad, we're taught to prepare and expect the worst.

It's like a restaraunt I worked at. Everyday we were running out of things, had to deal with stupid/grumpy/absent employees, had to deal with customers, had to get huge ammounts of prep work done, had to clean, had to work together in synchrony, had to deal with the massive rush of making and getting everyone's food out all at once. Everyday, absolutely everyday, that place was one the brink of disaster, and still everyday it managed to go just one more day, and yet another.

Things may be pretty shitty right now, but:

My point is, very bluntly, the world ain't going anywhere. You pussies who claim everything is going to hell don't know shit outside your own little world where you only take into consideration your own POV and experience. Who are you to make such accusations.

And finally,

Just as much, is this not what the bible describes? Perhaps I may be naive in my assumptions, and it's a veil to the true state of things? I believe in god. Maybe this is the devil at work, and I am actually desensitized to the actual issues?

Who knows, cause I sure don't. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

What about what the world felt during the times of Sodom and Gomorrah ? Rome (Christians were murdered - by lions, for the sheer pleasure of the Roman people.) ?

What about the desperation felt when Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden of Eden ?

What about the holocaust ?

I think there have been many times in history when the world felt as if it couldn't possibly take any more.

Just some food for thought.

Nevermind..you were saying the exact same thing. *LOL*

Guess I should read the WHOLE thing before responding.

*winks*

Good quality post, by the way.

And to all you guys who'd tun back the clock to make the world a better place, trust me, the 60s/70s were more morally deficient. And you don't want to be living in Rome. That place was corrupt.

OH jesus lets just all have messy anal sex everywhere since the worlds gonna end!!

Jesus was an awesome guy, I have the utmost respect for him, however the key word is WAS. He is not coming back anytime in the near nor distant future. The world will end, it's a law of nature, that all things tend to decay, thus eventually the world will also end, however I do not believe it will happen in my, nor your, lifetime. So wtf, let's go get high.

The end IS coming, and soon, we know that jesus' apostles ask when the last days will be (the last days of wicked man) jesus told them the signs: 2 timothy 3;1-3(maybe futher) The signs are ALL fullfilled and are worse than ever look it up if not - same of the signs are man will be greedy, puffed up with pride, nation against nation, earthquakes ...etc...

quote:Originally posted by john_deer:

The end IS coming, and soon, we know that jesus' apostles ask when the last days will be (the last days of wicked man) jesus told them the signs: 2 timothy 3;1-3(maybe futher) The signs are ALL fullfilled and are worse than ever look it up if not - same of the signs are man will be greedy, puffed up with pride, nation against nation, earthquakes ...etc...

MEH.

Men have always been greedy, puffed up with pride. The same goes with the concept of nation versus nation, earthquakes etc. etc.

I hardly feel alarmed when there have been a bazillion different times when this world has been worse off than it is today.

I could see the exception as those quoted about the mark of the beast, a one world currency, the rise of the roman empire etc. etc.

For now, I'm not worried.

read the account - ALL of them at once, have never been this bad, adn recently, its been getting WAY worse.

also there is the idol that represents different materials, like the top is gold, next is sliver, next i think is bronze, the last one is i think is bronze and clay.

each one represents a world power. The top is the roman empire in the middle is the persian, greek, and babaloian (ouch spelling) and at the bottom two are anglo (britian) and the last is teh anglo-american world power. The one in power right now. This is the world power that god will put an end to.....somewhere in Daniel i think.

ask me to expand and i will, not going to if no one is interested...

quote:Originally posted by john_deer:

read the account - ALL of them at once, have never been this bad, adn recently, its been getting WAY worse.

also there is the idol that represents different materials, like the top is gold, next is sliver, next i think is bronze, the last one is i think is bronze and clay.

each one represents a world power. The top is the roman empire in the middle is the persian, greek, and babaloian (ouch spelling) and at the bottom two are anglo (britian) and the last is teh anglo-american world power. The one in power right now. This is the world power that god will put an end to.....somewhere in Daniel i think.

ask me to expand and i will, not going to if no one is interested...

Do tell. I find the prophecy of end times fortold in the Bible very interesting.

Fair argument i grant.

But you say that how are we to judge whether or not the world will end based on our very limited life span yet you seem to make it a point in saying that Jesus wont return. Isnt that counterintuitive? Besides, the world will either end in 4 ways: Jesus, nuclear war, oil death, meteor.

Mankind will not go on forever. Too many obstacles and too much corruption.

Anyway, who are you to say society is not collapsing? You too are living a short life just as the man who denouces society for its fall. If his point is possibly invalid, then yours as well by the same merit.

quote:Originally posted by john_deer:

read the account - ALL of them at once, have never been this bad, adn recently, its been getting WAY worse.

also there is the idol that represents different materials, like the top is gold, next is sliver, next i think is bronze, the last one is i think is bronze and clay.

each one represents a world power. The top is the roman empire in the middle is the persian, greek, and babaloian (ouch spelling) and at the bottom two are anglo (britian) and the last is teh anglo-american world power. The one in power right now. This is the world power that god will put an end to.....somewhere in Daniel i think.

ask me to expand and i will, not going to if no one is interested...

Really? Well, I've also heard, from some eminent Christian guru, that the head was Babylon, the chest Medo-Persia, the thighs and waist Greece, the legs Rome, and the feet the final empire of the endtime who will bring the entire world under their terrible domination, that is, until Jesus comes back and has a big huge fight with the Antichrist, in which battle, our peace-loving God causes one-sevenths of the world's population to die, and the cleanup takes seven years... that all being HIS (the guru's) interpretation of the Bible......

quote:Originally posted by xXPhoenixFireXx:

And to all you guys who'd tun back the clock to make the world a better place, trust me, the 60s/70s were more morally deficient. And you don't want to be living in Rome. That place was corrupt.

you pussy fuck you

every1 says the 60's and 70's were morally devoid because of drugs and sex, well fuck all of you. THe 60's had a lot of faults, (none of which have to do with sex or drugs), but they were a time of realization. Realizing that organized society and conformity is shit. Organized religion is the epitomy of this. Especially the catholic church.



ps. the bible is crap, only worthy of rolling papers

quote:Originally posted by john_deer:

The end IS coming, and soon, we know that jesus' apostles ask when the last days will be (the last days of wicked man) jesus told them the signs: 2 timothy 3;1-3(maybe futher) The signs are ALL fullfilled and are worse than ever look it up if not - same of the signs are man will be greedy, puffed up with pride, nation against nation, earthquakes ...etc...

even if the bible was written by jesus apostles, that was almost 2000 years ago, theres no way in hell anything in that book is at all accurate. if you sit in a line of 20 ppl, and whisper cat to the person in front of you, and the whispering travels to the last person, by the end theyll be saying penis.

quote:Originally posted by ridiculous432:

even if the bible was written by jesus apostles, that was almost 2000 years ago, theres no way in hell anything in that book is at all accurate. if you sit in a line of 20 ppl, and whisper cat to the person in front of you, and the whispering travels to the last person, by the end theyll be saying penis.

Thats a good point, only that the Bible says that all of it was given to the authors byt divine inspiration. Now, take the Bible as a whole, wirrten by around 40 authors over 6000-7000 years, and find even one conflicting record. You point would actually be true if the disciples wrote it themselves and not with Gods help.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Fair argument i grant.

But you say that how are we to judge whether or not the world will end based on our very limited life span yet you seem to make it a point in saying that Jesus wont return. Isnt that counterintuitive? Besides, the world will either end in 4 ways: Jesus, nuclear war, oil death, meteor.

Mankind will not go on forever. Too many obstacles and too much corruption.

Anyway, who are you to say society is not collapsing? You too are living a short life just as the man who denouces society for its fall. If his point is possibly invalid, then yours as well by the same merit.



I don't think I particularly made it a point that Jesus won't return, or that the end of the world won't eventually come.

I use the argument that our very limited lifespan and life experience should serve as little guidance towards accurately predicting the end of the world. Not in the promotion of an everlasting, infinite view of creation (with no end).

It's just my opinion that those who bitch about this sort of thing, and how terrible things have gotten most likely fail to put it in a perspective outside their own point of view.

I doubt very much that man can exist forever, but I hold no doubt of man's ability to exist and coexist, especially in the face of great tribulation.

Finally, in my argument I do not say society is not collapsing, but in fact I believe that we have been worse off in this world than we are today. I too am a man who lives a short, miniscule life though I base my whole argument in the idea of developing my opinion outside my own point of view (and small existence), and the importance of considering other times in this world's existence.

"His" point is invalid in that he is only considering his own point of view, his own time, his own life's experience, which is a small billionth of the full human experience.

My point is based on the point of view outside my own, considering that which I may not have experienced myself. Which to may not be fully accurate, but surely it's more accurate than the opinion of which one only considers their own existence.

Thus in my opinion, his point is invalid. Mine cannot possibly be invalid on the same merits as we use different merits (points of view in this case) to develop our own arguments.