Commandment #6 (Jewish Interpretation)"You shall not murder"

Commandment#6 (Christian Interpretation) "You shall not kill."

(Qur'an, 6:151-153)"You shall not take life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does God command you, that you may learn wisdom."

How many wars have been fought for religious reasons?? How many people killed over religious disagreements? How can anybody believing in any of these faiths justify this? The KKK a christian white supremacist group has killed thousands of people from minority groups for what? How can they keep their faith despite this?? One of the Big Ten Commandments straight up says, in each of these faiths that it's straight out not okay. Yet homosexuals all violent sinners because of the unclear passages suggesting that it's a minor sin. We can go to Iraq/Afghanistan and kill thousands, Shiite's/Sunni's kill each other, Jews and Muslims the same, but an Abortion, absolutely not??

It seems like absolute ludacrous that anybody can justify this to themselves from a religious standpoint.

Well, very few people have been killed for religious reasons. Most people are killed for personal reasons under the guise of religion.

Like you posted, it is almost impossible for someone to be killed for a religious reason.

Religion is often used as a popular front for people's own motives. Aside from the first few Crusades, and a few other examples, people are rarely killed for actual religious reasons. Even then, most of the people doing the killing aren't straight in the head.

T-bag about the kkk.Just because a group or a person says that they're a christian.Doesn't always make them a chriastian.hell......I can say i'm santa claus but that doesnt make it true.Many ppl have killed in the name of their "god"but that doesn't justify what they did.about a year ago where I used to live a "christian" went to an abortion clinic and shot and killed one of the abortionist doctors.What i'm sayin is just because ppl say that they belive in god and they're a christian doesn't mean they actually live the life of a christian and follow god's rules.

quote:Originally posted by fagwhoagogs:

T-bag about the kkk.Just because a group or a person says that they're a christian.Doesn't always make them a chriastian.hell......I can say i'm santa claus but that doesnt make it true.Many ppl have killed in the name of their "god"but that doesn't justify what they did.about a year ago where I used to live a "christian" went to an abortion clinic and shot and killed one of the abortionist doctors.What i'm sayin is just because ppl say that they belive in god and they're a christian doesn't mean they actually live the life of a christian and follow god's rules.

I agree, but what percentage of Christians cheered for the murder of the abortion doctor? What percentage are for the Iraq war? It just seems that the number of people who defy gods rules yet still consider themselves to be the greatest followers is huge. Honestly I feel that support amongst Christians for the war in Iraq is stronger than that amongst Athiests (There is no factual basis for this comment, just what I notice in my community tends to show this).

Oh and as for the other comment here are some cases of wars fought for religious reasons. http://www.lepg.org/wars.htm http://www.lepg.org/wars2.htm

Many other wars that I have looked into have a fine devision between political and religious reasons.

A quote I found online from a...questionable source: "People have died in Northern Ireland because of religion. They're killing each other right now in the middle east over religious differences. The Crusades were fought over religion. More wars have been fought in the name of religion than for any other reason. "

Murders do happen over religion, and it is widespread. Not all of religion is corrupt, I guess I am saying a good deal of people are just missing out on what is really meant and are blowing out minor things while there is a great deal of people who still murder or do not condemn murder in the same way they do other more minor sins.

Anything within the last 300 years?

t-bag:I agree with what You are saying and I would like to debate this topic later as I have to get some sleep.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Anything within the last 300 years?

Aspects of the middle east conflict most definately are religious. Saddam's favoring a certain Muslim sect while using biological weapons on the other. Really the modern stuff is in countless small conflicts and individual social issues.

The thing with Saddam was more ethnic based(it was the Kurds).

Most of the middle East conflict is political. Whether it be the existence of Israel or US presence in the Middle East.

Any other "examples" that are at least somewhat relevant?

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

The thing with Saddam was more ethnic based(it was the Kurds).

Most of the middle East conflict is political. Whether it be the existence of Israel or US presence in the Middle East.

Any other "examples" that are at least somewhat relevant?

I admit there is not a single conflict that can be pinned as 100% religious. There are only aspects of it involved in numerous conflicts. (No keyword I have tried so far on google has given me a list). Still undenyably murders are committed and/or justified for religious reasons, by an incredibly large number of religious persons, and countless more agree with the way others have committed murder of another over their breaching of a smaller religious crime. Finding the wars is not the point, I argue that many believers are not consistant with god's obvious intent.

I agree with the last statement, but I disagree with how you're trying to pin any of the blame on the religion. That's my point of contention.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I agree with the last statement, but I disagree with how you're trying to pin any of the blame on the religion. That's my point of contention.

I'm not saying it's the religion's fault either. I'm just saying the people who follow the religion are not staying true to what the religion stresses.

Well, anyone could have told you that. No one is perfect and no one follows all the rules.

This thread really is quite pointless if that is the only point you're making.

"There's no justice here because nor is there crime

nothing to steal, to rape, or to sign

nothing to kill and nothing to find

my eyes had been blind and so had my mind."

Trying to justify something so far outside of justice is pointless. First you have to decide what exactly is justice, what is just, and then apply it to god who supposedly created everything therefore created and is justice. Therefore whatever he does is justice and is right, inherently.

Besides that, god created people with freewill so we could make our own decisions. It isn't gods fault when we make bad decisions.

Cheers,

Lost

This isn't a question of god being right Lost, this is commenting on how the many of the people who believe in and believe they follow god's law are able to completely throw out this major concept of what god has given us from their conscience so easily while they can justify breaking this major rule of god's because somebody else broke one of god's more minor rules. This isn't a minor thing either as napoleon tries to play it off as, this has a huge impact on our nation and our world through these people's narrow-mindedness, and their complete inability to accept their failures.

Thal shalt not kill........Death Penalty,guns although treebranches work just as well.

Thal shalt not death penalty.....Abortion clinics



Solution? Death Penalty, drugs, abortions, guns, pre-mairital sex, more drugs, anti-tank weapons for all

quote:Originally posted by titan88:

Thal shalt not kill........Death Penalty,guns although treebranches work just as well.

Thal shalt not death penalty.....Abortion clinics



Solution? Death Penalty, drugs, abortions, guns, pre-mairital sex, more drugs, anti-tank weapons for all

...You're trying to compare religion to the American justice system. Keep religion out of our government. This thread is about many religious people themselves being walking contradictions.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:



Trying to justify something so far outside of justice is pointless. First you have to decide what exactly is justice, what is just, and then apply it to god who supposedly created everything therefore created and is justice. Therefore whatever he does is justice and is right, inherently.

Besides that, god created people with freewill so we could make our own decisions. It isn't gods fault when we make bad decisions.



This has already been dealt with.

Now I know, you may not want to reply because you do not want conflict, a fight, or what it your opinion would be a tedious argument, fine; but by that same token, I do. Hence, I will reply:

If god knows what his creation will do evil in the future, and if he had the ability to stop it, then he is guilty by virtually all legal and moral codes known to man.

Now you may counter by stating that "he created justice" and that therefore whatever he does is just. But that would then refute what Christians believe is a completely objective morality.

They do not believe morality is subjective, since then that would remove any legitimacy to Christianity. That means that they either must argue that god is guilty for not preventing the evil he already knows (and created), or that it would be okay to create things that one knows will do evil.

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

This isn't a question of god being right Lost, this is commenting on how the many of the people who believe in and believe they follow god's law are able to completely throw out this major concept of what god has given us from their conscience so easily while they can justify breaking this major rule of god's because somebody else broke one of god's more minor rules. This isn't a minor thing either as napoleon tries to play it off as, this has a huge impact on our nation and our world through these people's narrow-mindedness, and their complete inability to accept their failures.

Well, in that case - if this a question of why do people do bad things, this belongs more in Humanities.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

Commandment #6 (Jewish Interpretation)"You shall not murder"

Commandment#6 (Christian Interpretation) "You shall not kill."

(Qur'an, 6:151-153)"You shall not take life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does God command you, that you may learn wisdom."

How many wars have been fought for religious reasons?? How many people killed over religious disagreements? How can anybody believing in any of these faiths justify this? The KKK a christian white supremacist group has killed thousands of people from minority groups for what? How can they keep their faith despite this?? One of the Big Ten Commandments straight up says, in each of these faiths that it's straight out not okay. Yet homosexuals all violent sinners because of the unclear passages suggesting that it's a minor sin. We can go to Iraq/Afghanistan and kill thousands, Shiite's/Sunni's kill each other, Jews and Muslims the same, but an Abortion, absolutely not??

It seems like absolute ludacrous that anybody can justify this to themselves from a religious standpoint.



Its all justified. The Christian interpretation is the exact same as the Jewish. They imply the same thing their wording isnt. Words are simply labels for a sequence of ideas. If the two sequences are the same the words used to express them do not matter.

And the Qu 'Ran isnt Judaeo-Christian anyway so i dont know why you posted it.

Or was it in reference to holy wars?

Well im no Qu' Ran scholar but the book has inconsistencies in it so your justification would be rather complex if the war is able to be justified.

On the Christian side its not murder if its war. We have a right to defend ourselves, as do all humans. Christians do not make war unless an opponent started it or we are acting on behalf of another country (crusades). If however you cannot justify a war under Christianity you can only assume that it is not sanctioned by said religion.

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

Originally posted by fagwhoagogs:

T-bag about the kkk.Just because a group or a person says that they're a christian.Doesn't always make them a chriastian.hell......I can say i'm santa claus but that doesnt make it true.Many ppl have killed in the name of their "god"but that doesn't justify what they did.about a year ago where I used to live a "christian" went to an abortion clinic and shot and killed one of the abortionist doctors.What i'm sayin is just because ppl say that they belive in god and they're a christian doesn't mean they actually live the life of a christian and follow god's rules.

I agree, but what percentage of Christians cheered for the murder of the abortion doctor? What percentage are for the Iraq war? It just seems that the number of people who defy gods rules yet still consider themselves to be the greatest followers is huge. Honestly I feel that support amongst Christians for the war in Iraq is stronger than that amongst Athiests (There is no factual basis for this comment, just what I notice in my community tends to show this).

Oh and as for the other comment here are some cases of wars fought for religious reasons. http://www.lepg.org/wars.htm http://www.lepg.org/wars2.htm

Many other wars that I have looked into have a fine devision between political and religious reasons.

A quote I found online from a...questionable source: "People have died in Northern Ireland because of religion. They're killing each other right now in the middle east over religious differences. The Crusades were fought over religion. More wars have been fought in the name of religion than for any other reason. "

Murders do happen over religion, and it is widespread. Not all of religion is corrupt, I guess I am saying a good deal of people are just missing out on what is really meant and are blowing out minor things while there is a great deal of people who still murder or do not condemn murder in the same way they do other more minor sins.

Your an idiot if you think that more religious people are for the war than atheists. Have you some agenda that makes your seemingly benign statement biased?

As for the Iraq war before taking care of our own problems. Its for the greater good to take out the larger threat before the equally larger, yet much much slower, threat.

I can also safely say that anyone that calls themselves Christians then does something like murder someone and call it by Gods will is not a Christian. Dont you see that? Christians who really have accepted Christ dont do those things. Jesus gives us the capacity to live peacibly among those who hate us. What that guy did was wrong and in no way could it be justified under Christianity. God would have to call himself a liar if he told the guy to kill the doctor.

Ooops, i aimed that at the wrong person in the wrong matter. Disregard the offense on the above statement and just observe what i wrote.

Tbag, you need to quit feeling. Those are irrational, and quite honestly, counterintuitive to those respective religions. You are correct however. Hardly any people who claim to be Christian really are. And even less try to live like it. They are no better than Catholics.

And for others sake the "questionable" source you mentioned is wrong. And for fucks sake the crusades started because the Muslims overtook the Jewish temple and the Catholics didnt like it.

Germany back in WWII, what percentage of the population was Christian? Well over 50%... How many people spoke out against the mass murders going on in their nation?? Very few...and not only out of fear. It is not the religions that are wrong. People's following of the faith is what does not match up with what is taught of the faith. Yet it seems these religions speak out more against homosexuals than murderers. The church/temple/Mosques also have their responsibilities in that they are not stressing it enough at their services/religious classes.

How do you want them to speak out against murderers?

It's not like their are murderer organizations like there are homosexual ones. It's not like the nation's murderers are trying to force acception and an agenda on people.

My Catholic school has a group that goes to the state prison EVERY time someone is going to be executed, and protest capitol punishment. My school doesn't have a group that protests anything homosexual.

You blow things so out of proportion, and living in San Francisco, I doubt you've ever experienced most of the things you're talking about.

I know christians that are more anti-capitol punishment than the most flaming liberal I know.

I really suggest you try to know something of what you're talking about before you talk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

A lot of people spoke out against Hitler, most were killed though. You see, the possibility of death sometimes scares a regual person from standing up and speaking out. Just because they aren't saints, it doesn't mean they're bad people.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

How do you want them to speak out against murderers?

It's not like their are murderer organizations like there are homosexual ones. It's not like the nation's murderers are trying to force acception and an agenda on people.

My Catholic school has a group that goes to the state prison EVERY time someone is going to be executed, and protest capitol punishment. My school doesn't have a group that protests anything homosexual.

You blow things so out of proportion, and living in San Francisco, I doubt you've ever experienced most of the things you're talking about.

I know christians that are more anti-capitol punishment than the most flaming liberal I know.

I really suggest you try to know something of what you're talking about before you talk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

A lot of people spoke out against Hitler, most were killed though. You see, the possibility of death sometimes scares a regual person from standing up and speaking out. Just because they aren't saints, it doesn't mean they're bad people.

Well, Dietrich Bonhoeffer goes down on my list as a good dude. He may not have followed god's word, but he followed the spirit of it. But don't shit yourself. Hitler had many supporters, and many Christians agreed with him through their vast anti-semitism.

I don't agree with your saying Liberals are for capitol punishment. I live one of the most liberal areas of the world and supporters of capitol punishment are very few. I believe Texas is the state that uses Capitol punishment the most. Just because you follow god's word well doesn't mean it exists everywhere.



What living near SF I've never heard of homosexuality? Living a few blocks from the ghetto of Oakland I know nothing of murder? Being Jewish I know nothing of Judeo-Christian religion?

ROTFLMFAO homosexual organizations...yes, like everyone against gay rights says as their excuse..."It's just an excuse to make us all gay and teach our children to be gay too." What stupid asses. You protest capitol punishment because that is bad, and don't protest gay rights because it is proper to grant equal rights.

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

Germany back in WWII, what percentage of the population was Christian? Well over 50%... How many people spoke out against the mass murders going on in their nation?? Very few...and not only out of fear. It is not the religions that are wrong. People's following of the faith is what does not match up with what is taught of the faith. Yet it seems these religions speak out more against homosexuals than murderers. The church/temple/Mosques also have their responsibilities in that they are not stressing it enough at their services/religious classes.

EXACTLY!!!! You have found out why most americans say they are christian yet we are living in a secular country. You hit it right on the ball.

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

Well, Dietrich Bonhoeffer goes down on my list as a good dude. He may not have followed god's word, but he followed the spirit of it. But don't shit yourself. Hitler had many supporters, and many Christians agreed with him through their vast anti-semitism.

I don't agree with your saying Liberals are for capitol punishment. I live one of the most liberal areas of the world and supporters of capitol punishment are very few. I believe Texas is the state that uses Capitol punishment the most. Just because you follow god's word well doesn't mean it exists everywhere.



What living near SF I've never heard of homosexuality? Living a few blocks from the ghetto of Oakland I know nothing of murder? Being Jewish I know nothing of Judeo-Christian religion?

ROTFLMFAO homosexual organizations...yes, like everyone against gay rights says as their excuse..."It's just an excuse to make us all gay and teach our children to be gay too." What stupid asses. You protest capitol punishment because that is bad, and don't protest gay rights because it is proper to grant equal rights.

You really are stupider than I originally gave you credit for. I applaud you.

You managed to not only miss the point, but get the opposite out of what I said. For knowing so much about these subjects, you're quite stupid... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)