The bible has been around for some time now, but i want to know is how much of it has been removed or changed to benifiet one's self or religion. please post any thing you know about missing parts whole sections and other parts which might clear up abit.

Also if any one knows were to find the original bible before it was every edited. it will more likely be in Hebrew or Jewish

Thanks to you all who might reply.

The vatican have the origional, alegidly.

Well suposidly they took the bit about Adam's first wife out, but I really don't know much on this.

I'm sure there've been many revisions to the Bible, maybe not in recent times but everything changes. I suspect revisions may have been made when it was first translated from Latin to more everyday languages.

quote:Originally posted by flatplat:

Well suposidly they took the bit about Adam's first wife out, but I really don't know much on this.

.

Lilith was a story fabricated during the middle ages.

The roman catholic church has the vulgate, which is actually pretty easy to read if you're willing to teach yourself latin via internet.

quote:Originally posted by Jubosh:



Also if any one knows were to find the original bible before it was every edited. it will more likely be in Hebrew or Jewish



WTF?? Jewish isn't a fucking language moron. And I doubt that the bible is in our religion, infact I'll guarantee that.

ok so you want the original stuff? its in greek. or thats what ive always been taught (i guess being Orthodox my educators on the subject would be biased) but for the old testament there is the hebrew version and then the septuegent. the sept. is in greek and was done independently by many different translators who all came out with the same thing. like apparently it was freakishly close (like 1 every 1000 words or even lower odds was different).

now as for how much we are missing. well that depends on how oyu view the idea of "missing" parts and which church youre looking from. if your protestant, you're already missing the apocrypha (i think thats what its called). who else knows wahts been removed over time. now as for the idea of stuff actually being missing. well if you believe that the ecumenical councils where actually inspired by the holy spirit then if you take an Orthdox bible or even an RC one oyu should be ok. but if you think that it was all politics and people used the development of canonical texts as power grabs and brainwashing ideas then you would be hard pressed to find the whole story. don't use the internet to read the actual whole set of canonical and non-canonical texts. people will put whatever they like in non-canonical texts on the net so that their views are represented. if you really want ot know what is missing, then go find an open minded Orthodox priest, and open minded RC priest, and a biblcal scholar. preferably hte scholar should be unbiased and not even christian. then do a shitload of detective work, examine what oyu find, sort hrough the bullshit of what is newer than allowed for biblical texts, publish your findings, and pis soff the vatican and constantinople at hte same time. enjoy

Hey thanks for the info, the reason i'm doing this is for this guy I know and he's about to die soon and he wants to read the original bible or something pretty damn close and he's pretty old so not too good the a computer. so i told him i'd try to track it down for him

he also said something about a book that god gave to john or adam or one of those guys and it was too inlighten them or something i'm not too sure but if any one knows of that let me know.

thanks

If you (or he, rather) truly believes in God, then he has to trust that everything God wanted in the Bible has stayed in the Bible... Yes, perhaps many things have been removed, but don't you think that a supernatural being could keep together what it wanted? Or is that beyond God's almighty power?

quote:Originally posted by BrightestCrayon:

If you (or he, rather) truly believes in God, then he has to trust that everything God wanted in the Bible has stayed in the Bible... Yes, perhaps many things have been removed, but don't you think that a supernatural being could keep together what it wanted? Or is that beyond God's almighty power?

Exactly

The only thing missing from the bible is the title page. I have a copy..... It says:

The following is a work of fiction. It was written my many different people. It has been translated by even more.

(The above was written in Hebrew)

The original "bible" was taken and molded to form ALL of the current religious works. Buddhism, Muslim, Catholicism were all derived from the religious writings that Abraham carried down the mountain.

So, believe what you want. Religion is good in moderation but you will also not come across a written work that has not been "tampered" with in one way or another. The unfortunate thing I think is that your friend being towards the end of his life is seeming to just now be questioning some things about his apparent beliefs. Good luck to him...

The old testament would have originally been written in aramaic while the new testament would be in Hebrew. Simple as that.

quote:Originally posted by MajMoFo:

The only thing missing from the bible is the title page. I have a copy..... It says:

The following is a work of fiction. It was written my many different people. It has been translated by even more.

(The above was written in Hebrew)

The original "bible" was taken and molded to form ALL of the current religious works. Buddhism, Muslim, Catholicism were all derived from the religious writings that Abraham carried down the mountain.

So, believe what you want. Religion is good in moderation but you will also not come across a written work that has not been "tampered" with in one way or another. The unfortunate thing I think is that your friend being towards the end of his life is seeming to just now be questioning some things about his apparent beliefs. Good luck to him...

Ohh wise sage! Where did thou learn this!

What an idiot. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

this is what i like about this forum...loads of people with opinions on something they know next to nothing about.

*bides patiently for intelligent,informed comment*

Oh, the first page was actually ripped out and then distributed without it. Wanna know what it said on it?

"The Bible: A Work of Fiction in the Making"

Written by: (dunno) Oliver Anderson

They prolly just ripped out that and boom, bible

quote:Originally posted by BrightestCrayon:

If you (or he, rather) truly believes in God, then he has to trust that everything God wanted in the Bible has stayed in the Bible... Yes, perhaps many things have been removed, but don't you think that a supernatural being could keep together what it wanted? Or is that beyond God's almighty power?

Because none of the disciples ever sinned or made mistakes. People hang onto the bible because it's the only thing they have and most refuse to acknowledge any ambiguity. The bible was written by men.

quote:The bible was written by men.

uhm, no

there is a body of evidence to suggest J was written by a non-male or even a female.

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

Because none of the disciples ever sinned or made mistakes. People hang onto the bible because it's the only thing they have and most refuse to acknowledge any ambiguity. The bible was written by men.



Have you even read the Bible? The New Testement? The Old?...

Every book of the Bible (at least as far as i can remember) has the men that are attributed as the inspired authors, depicted as sinners.

And you know why? We all sin.

No one has held up God's to God's standard, except His Son... which is the reason (along with also being God, Himself) that He was able to be the Sacrifice for ALL sin.

And most of them were what we would consider as pretty bad sinners... murder,adultery, lies, stealing, etc.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

uhm, no

there is a body of evidence to suggest J was written by a non-male or even a female.

thats if you belive the documentry hypothsis...

quote:Originally posted by allthegoodnamesweregone:

thats if you belive the documentry hypothsis...



no one has come up with a better theory...yet...

The very fact that some pages are missing could put in jeopardy any religion that follows it.

I don't know jack i have seen alot of evidance against it...

"re- even more evidance that demands a verdict..."

quote:Originally posted by allthegoodnamesweregone:

I don't know jack i have seen alot of evidance against it...

"re- even more evidance that demands a verdict..."

i haven't. but then again ,its been a long time since i actively studied it. so if you know of something interesting then linky please (but please don't waste my time with the ravings of some fundamentalist tv evangelist).

Okay... Some of you "informed" ones better listen up... I've been around church my whole life... I've preached lessons here and there since I was about 9... I will say now that I AM IN NO WAY CLAIMING TO BE AN EXPERT ON THE BIBLE...But, I have been around it soo much that some of it, if not all, has rubbed off into my memory... Anyway, that said... God wrote the Bible through men... period, end of sentence... It is absurd to think that the common man is capable of creating such a great story... Reguardless of what you may have heard from these 12-15 yr old "athiest-fuck-religion-bullshitters", when read front to back, it does not contradict itself once... not once... Remember, though... God makes known unto those who truly love him what God wills... So... anyway... There are 39 books in the Old Testament and 27 books in the New Testament... Most of the books had different authors... Most of the people who wrote the books of the Old Testament never met the ones who wrote the New...Vice-versa... some New Testament authors never even saw Old Testament books... so basically what I'm saying is people didn't meet people, didn't read books, had nothing to go on, ya following? Now, how in the world is it possible to write something that has to do with something that's already been written and not contradict with it if you've never even read what was written in the first place? Hmm... Gimme a good example and I'll shut up... I'll tell you how... Through God... or whatever supernatural force... In this case, though, God... So... now... Back to my original statement... Can God not keep together what God wants together?

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

uhm, no

there is a body of evidence to suggest J was written by a non-male or even a female.

I like the way you put that, "...was written by a non-male or even a female."

Without God, only two choices (with the ability to write)... 1. male 2.female

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

I like the way you put that, "...was written by a non-male or even a female."

Without God, only two choices (with the ability to write)... 1. male 2.female

Aliens? How many genders would they have?

quote:Originally posted by BrightestCrayon:

Okay... Some of you "informed" ones better listen up... I've been around church my whole life... I've preached lessons here and there since I was about 9... I will say now that I AM IN NO WAY CLAIMING TO BE AN EXPERT ON THE BIBLE...But, I have been around it soo much that some of it, if not all, has rubbed off into my memory... Anyway, that said... God wrote the Bible through men... period, end of sentence... It is absurd to think that the common man is capable of creating such a great story... Reguardless of what you may have heard from these 12-15 yr old "athiest-fuck-religion-bullshitters", when read front to back, it does not contradict itself once... not once... Remember, though... God makes known unto those who truly love him what God wills... So... anyway... There are 39 books in the Old Testament and 27 books in the New Testament... Most of the books had different authors... Most of the people who wrote the books of the Old Testament never met the ones who wrote the New...Vice-versa... some New Testament authors never even saw Old Testament books... so basically what I'm saying is people didn't meet people, didn't read books, had nothing to go on, ya following? Now, how in the world is it possible to write something that has to do with something that's already been written and not contradict with it if you've never even read what was written in the first place? Hmm... Gimme a good example and I'll shut up... I'll tell you how... Through God... or whatever supernatural force... In this case, though, God... So... now... Back to my original statement... Can God not keep together what God wants together?

He's got a good point.

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

I like the way you put that, "...was written by a non-male or even a female."

Without God, only two choices (with the ability to write)... 1. male 2.female

Aliens? How many genders would they have?



Show me an E.T.

Doubtful that they exist.

And even then, doubtful that they would have wrote the Bible as it is. EITHER God exists, and aliens wrote it, in which case the Bible would be a lie, because it says that all scripture is inspire by God to men; OR God does not exist, in which case those aliens are big practical jokers, but didnt want the worship that came from being God, OR aliens are God, in which case, they are material beings.. which means that they are liars, since God's Word says He is the only God....

we could go on, but i think the alien theory doesnt fit.

quote:Originally posted by BrightestCrayon:

Okay... God wrote the Bible through men... period, end of sentence...it does not contradict itself once... not once.

Not even once?

http://img236.echo.cx/my.php?image=untitled1ig.jpg

quote:Originally posted by WolfinSheepsClothing:

http://img236.echo.cx/my.php?image=untitled1ig.jpg (http: //img236.e cho.cx/my. php?image= untitled1i g.jpg)

Funny shit.

quote:Originally posted by BrightestCrayon:

Okay... Some of you "informed" ones better listen up... I've been around church my whole life... I've preached lessons here and there since I was about 9... I will say now that I AM IN NO WAY CLAIMING TO BE AN EXPERT ON THE BIBLE...But, I have been around it soo much that some of it, if not all, has rubbed off into my memory... Anyway, that said... God wrote the Bible through men... period, end of sentence... It is absurd to think that the common man is capable of creating such a great story... Reguardless of what you may have heard from these 12-15 yr old "athiest-fuck-religion-bullshitters", when read front to back, it does not contradict itself once... not once... Remember, though... God makes known unto those who truly love him what God wills... So... anyway... There are 39 books in the Old Testament and 27 books in the New Testament... Most of the books had different authors... Most of the people who wrote the books of the Old Testament never met the ones who wrote the New...Vice-versa... some New Testament authors never even saw Old Testament books... so basically what I'm saying is people didn't meet people, didn't read books, had nothing to go on, ya following? Now, how in the world is it possible to write something that has to do with something that's already been written and not contradict with it if you've never even read what was written in the first place? Hmm... Gimme a good example and I'll shut up... I'll tell you how... Through God... or whatever supernatural force... In this case, though, God... So... now... Back to my original statement... Can God not keep together what God wants together?

If you are not an expert in the bible, then how can you be absolutely certain that it does not contradict itself once.

quote:. some New Testament authors never even saw Old Testament books...

you are an idiot.

there we go jack and as im not into posting links with out text

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

"A more critical analysis that rejects the partitioning scheme of Wellhausen includes that of Hans Heinrich Schmid, whose 1976 work, Der sogenannte Jahwist or translated, The So-called Yahwist, almost completely eliminates the J document and, according to Blenkinsopp, if taken to its logical extreme, eliminates all narrative sources other than the Deuteronomic author. Furthermore, some studies have showed literary consistency throughout the Pentateuch, such as a 1980 computer study at Hebrew University in Israel which concluded that the Pentateuch was most likely written by a single author."

hmm i remember reading schmid and not be particulary convinced. can't recall the details of the israeli study.

wellhausen is to theologians what darwin is to biologists. his basic premise lead the way to all serious biblical study yet many of his conclusions have been revised(to say the least).

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

I like the way you put that, "...was written by a non-male or even a female."

Without God, only two choices (with the ability to write)... 1. male 2.female

Aliens? How many genders would they have?

i said 'non -male' with reason.

God makes known unto those who truly believe what God wills... that is the way it is... Doesn't matter if there are contradictions or not... As you all have said time and again, the Bible was written by man... Yes, God wrote it through them, but men are prone to mistakes... Lots of the passages were taken out of context... Does contradict when that happens... That's why I said, when read from front to back... Anyway... Oh, and to the person who called me an idiot... You're the one following voices...

quote:Oh, and to the person who called me an idiot... You're the one following voices...

so i'm insane...you're still an idiot.

Well... Fine... I'm an idiot... so please disregard anything that I've said... there... you win *throws in the towel*

that was quicker than normal...

not in a fighting mood today... oh... wait, then... I shouldn't be HERE...

whats up crayon you seemed more pissed off than usual wanna talk about it... lol

quote:Originally posted by T-BagBikerStar:

WTF?? Jewish isn't a fucking language moron. And I doubt that the bible is in our religion, infact I'll guarantee that.





I thought you were an atheist, T-Bag? Or are you an atheist Jew?

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:



I thought you were an atheist, T-Bag? Or are you an atheist Jew?



Hell, wtf is an atheist Jew? Jews believe in a "G-d", or in YHVH or whatever the fuck..... *retires to bed, muttering*

I'm sorry, but if the Bible is God's book given to man, what about the Koran, the Moron Mormon's Book, the Kama Sutra http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) and all the other books from G-d (this Jew thing is rubbing off on me) that people have written and claimed to be the one and only truth spoken from g-d's facehole.... hahahahaha, get it, facehole *goes back to bed and bottle*

What? Are you stalking me you piss ant? Cause that wouldn't be very good on the eyes.

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:



Hell, wtf is an atheist Jew? Jews believe in a "G-d", or in YHVH or whatever the fuck..... *retires to bed, muttering*

You quoted yourself...

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

You quoted yourself...

Fucking hilarious!

quote:Originally posted by MajMoFo:

...The original "bible" was taken and molded to form ALL of the current religious works. Buddhism, Muslim, Catholicism were all derived from the religious writings that Abraham carried down the mountain...

1.)Buddhism is derived from Hinduism

2.)Buddhism had nothing to do with Christianity or Judaism.

3.)The fella that "carried down" the writing would be... Moses.

You guys make me smile...

quote:Originally posted by Oxy-Moron:

The vatican have the origional, alegidly.

IN ITS ORIGINAL LATIN!!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

IN ITS ORIGINAL LATIN!!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Wait a minute...are you implying that the original version of the Bible wasn't written in latin?

Get out of here with that crazy talk. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)