Im a n00b when it comes to religion, so i was wondering i dont want a flame fesy but i want to know what is the diffrence between these 2 religions? or 2 demoninations of religion, because all i can see is one has a confessional and one dosent!

Well, Catholicism is part of Christianity. :condufed:

quote:Originally posted by Streetvision:

Im a n00b when it comes to religion, so i was wondering i dont want a flame fesy but i want to know what is the diffrence between these 2 religions? or 2 demoninations of religion, because all i can see is one has a confessional and one dosent!

are you being serious or are you being sarcastic?

Seirous, i grew up in a family that never talked about religion ever and i just wondering so i decided to post, i guess ill have to google it.

There are tons of differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Jesus started the Church that would later call itself the Catholic Church and put special authority in it. The Church has a rich faith and culture. Its wonderful. And its tragic that other denominations have broken away from it.

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

Jesus started the Church that would later call itself the Catholic Church and put special authority in it.

Is that what they tell you?!

It's pretty well supported.

Ever heard of apostolic succession?

main religon is the same just, some, variences

quote:Originally posted by Streetvision:

Im a n00b when it comes to religion, so i was wondering i dont want a flame fesy but i want to know what is the diffrence between these 2 religions? or 2 demoninations of religion, because all i can see is one has a confessional and one dosent!

This is a joke right? Catholicism is a certain sect of Christianity.

Catholicism is a sect of Christianity and without getting too technical about it, the main different in the core faith is that Christianity's main figurehead is Jesus Christ and Catholicism's main figurehead is The Virgin Mary (Jesus Christs mother).

Also, Christianity is based off of (Messianic) Judaism whereas Catholicism is a meshing of Christianity and paganism.

Cheers,

Lost

We are learning about this in school. Back in the 16th century ish, there was a guy called Martin Luther, he protested against the Catholics hence the name protestent. He protested because the Catholics believed that the pope was god on earth, and he could make no mistake at all. And they also believed, if you bought this letter thing from the church, you could be forgaven of your sins. So this Martin Luther Character protested and said, I am not following a man, who god didn't choose specifically, I follow the bible.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Catholicism's main figurehead is The Virgin Mary (Jesus Christs mother).

.

Cheers,

Lost

no its not. Protestants just ignore her.

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

no its not. Protestants just ignore her.

Protestants and Catholics aren't the same thing.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Christianity's main figurehead is Jesus Christ and Catholicism's main figurehead is The Virgin Mary (Jesus Christs mother).

Also, Christianity is based off of (Messianic) Judaism whereas Catholicism is a meshing of Christianity and paganism.

Cheers,

Lost

Both statements are wrong...

The Catholic figurhead is Jesus..Not Mary..

The difference in Catholicism and Protestants is the fact that the Catholics believe that when the bread and wine is blessed by the priest that it becomes ACTUAL BODY and BLOOD..not a representation but an actual piece of flesh and an actual cup of blood..just in a form that is easier to swallow (good pun eh?)

and for the catholicism being based on something that the protestant faith is not..that CANT be right considering all protestant faiths are of direct lineage from the Catholic Church.

p.s. how is your fathers Hep-C doing?

Hope all is well

The fact that there are two religions (many, actually) already says so much about this subject.

No-one brought up anything about the saindts though,which is why Catholosism is a sect of the christian church in the first place.Catholosism believes you can worship other holy figures other than god to help you with your biddings,which is most oftenly the saints,along with the Communicator of god(I think that's what he's called)A.K.A the Pope,& the angels.

Christianity forbids such an act because other than worshiping the father,the son,& thw holy spriit(all main parts of god)it is considered..well,um just bad im sure of it.lol,But I know it's forbidden by it.

& I could understand greatly the Pagan aspect of Catholosism,as when you compare the saints to the roman,greek & celtic gods(especially the latter)you see extreme great similiarities between them.Conspiracy of the Vatican?Maybe but I think throughout history people are going to create figureheads to represent thier purpose non the less of past history on the character itself.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Protestants and Catholics aren't the same thing.

Cheers,

Lost

ok? thanks for the update...

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Catholicism's main figurehead is The Virgin Mary (Jesus Christs mother).

You are way off on that one.

quote:Originally posted by KRJ:

Catholosism believes you can worship other holy figures other than god to help you with your biddings,which is most oftenly the saints,along with the Communicator of god(I think that's what he's called)A.K.A the Pope,& the angels.



couldnt be further from the truth..

Catholicism does not believe in worshipping anyone other than God..To believe different would be ignorance of the catholic religion.

People always say some silly thing like..Why do you ask the saints for their prayers...Just ask God.

Well they do ask God..And sometimes the saints to.

Think thats dumb...Those same people who think its silly will ask there mom and aunt and neighbors to pray for them while going through tough times..Whats the difference? NONE!

I am an ex catholic...I studied the Catholic faith for many years. Even contemplated becoming a member of the priesthood..

But alas..I came to know God and realized he doesnt require you to do anything to be a part of his infinite joy and grace. Just be....

Many Catholics do worship entities other than their god, but in doctrine they worship only that god (Latria? Something, I forget. Sounds kind of like Labia...), venerating/honoring examples (Virgin Mary, saints, etc.) and stuff, which is supposed to be different from worship. They believe the pope is infallible (can't be wrong due to divine inspiration via the Holy Spirit and stuff) on matters of "Faith and Worship" only. Kinda vague- go figure.

holy shit... most of you dont know what youre talking about. ask a fuckin priest, these people are morons and believe anything they are told...

i used to be catholic, and i know most of the stuff said on this thread is false. seriously, ask an expert

Although people usually use the term "Catholic" to refer to the Roman Catholic church, they aren't neccesarily one in the same thing....Protestants are catholic (notice the small c) too...

quote:Originally posted by Knave:

holy shit... most of you dont know what youre talking about. ask a fuckin priest, these people are morons and believe anything they are told...

i used to be catholic, and i know most of the stuff said on this thread is false. seriously, ask an expert

Yea that's great, buddy. But, are you going to clue us in to what Catholicism actually is?

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

There are tons of differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Jesus started the Church that would later call itself the Catholic Church and put special authority in it. The Church has a rich faith and culture. Its wonderful. And its tragic that other denominations have broken away from it.

This is true in the sense that catholicism was at one time Christianity and then people got to picking and choosing what they believed about the religion and then took their certain beliefs and broke off.

quote:Originally posted by Random_Looney:

Many Catholics do worship entities other than their god, but in doctrine they worship only that god (Latria? Something, I forget. Sounds kind of like Labia...), venerating/honoring examples (Virgin Mary, saints, etc.) and stuff, which is supposed to be different from worship. They believe the pope is infallible (can't be wrong due to divine inspiration via the Holy Spirit and stuff) on matters of "Faith and Worship" only. Kinda vague- go figure.

It is wrong to say that Catholics believe that the pope cant be wrong many believe that certain popes have been wrong at certain times catholics do believe that the pope was chosen at certain times to lead the church in a certain direction.

A Pope isn't always infallible. Only when he declares a dogma or something

Actually, not even then.

For the pope to be infallible he has to be sitting in St. Peter's chair.

go and ask a catholic to read the ten commandments to you, then ask a christian to do the damn same. then look at the bible and figure the difference. i did that and the catholics skipped exodus:20:4 which states that you cant worship any idols, bow down tot ehm or pray tot hem, or God will hate you and your family. and the catholics also made the last paragraph of exodus 20 into two commandments, because if you read it by paragraph, it makes exactly 10.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Catholicism is a sect of Christianity and without getting too technical about it, the main different in the core faith is that Christianity's main figurehead is Jesus Christ and Catholicism's main figurehead is The Virgin Mary (Jesus Christs mother).

Also, Christianity is based off of (Messianic) Judaism whereas Catholicism is a meshing of Christianity and paganism.

Cheers,

Lost

Yes the Catholics honor mary a bunch, but she is diffanately not the main figurehead.

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

Yea that's great, buddy. But, are you going to clue us in to what Catholicism actually is?

NO... i cant explain an entire fuckin religion on this thread, ok? like i said, the original poster should just ask a priest. they know far more than i do and he/she wouldnt get all this misinformation

Here (http: //religiou smovements .lib.virgi nia.edu/nr ms/roman_catholicism.html) is a relatively good link to what Catholicism is. It also has a bunch of links to other various resources.

[This message has been edited by Red Raven (edited 06-15-2005).]

They are both a waste of time.

Hey vision,

tryin to choose a religon are you,

dont get into arguments in here as there all pretty one eyed, and everyone believes their

religon, is the one true religion,

i am no longer religious, but,

Catholics, are fucking Christians you fucking fools, a christian is anyone that believes in christ,

so many religions fall under the catorgory

of being CHRISTIAN,

and yes somone was partially correct, but, mary is not the head of the Catholic church

yet she is more overly emphersised,then in many others,

churches are mostly money making scheams,

and can actually come between you and your beliefs,

decide what you believe, then decide

on a religon.

ok. see you round the boards bro.

/ocean

just to play devils advocate

ocean even the devil "belives in christ"

quote:Originally posted by oceanangel:

Hey vision,

tryin to choose a religon are you,

dont get into arguments in here as there all pretty one eyed, and everyone believes their

religon, is the one true religion,

i am no longer religious, but,

Catholics, are fucking Christians you fucking fools, a christian is anyone that believes in christ,

so many religions fall under the catorgory

of being CHRISTIAN,

and yes somone was partially correct, but, mary is not the head of the Catholic church

yet she is more overly emphersised,then in many others,

churches are mostly money making scheams,

and can actually come between you and your beliefs,

decide what you believe, then decide

on a religon.

ok. see you round the boards bro.

/ocean

You are soooooo much more neutral and un-biased than the religious people. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

There are tons of differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Jesus started the Church that would later call itself the Catholic Church and put special authority in it. The Church has a rich faith and culture. Its wonderful. And its tragic that other denominations have broken away from it.

I am a practicing Catholic, and I cannot agree with you any more.

ok so to answer the original qestion.

Christianity is the name of the religion, Catholicism is the name of one denomination (usually refers to Roman Catholicism, though it may also refer to Greek Catholicism(uniat), note the big C) you were probably thinking of protestant sects when you said christian because alot of protestant sects will simply call themselves christian when asked. Catholics were first (but not alone) then protestants protested and formed new denominations.

as for this other bullshit that the Catholic church is the first and only right one: Wrong! sorry to take such a hard stance but i get sick and tired of Orthodoxy getting shoved to the sidelines even though it has been around just as long. whoever said martin luther was the cause of the protestant movements, very good, that would be one of the most true things on here.

and as for the comment about non Roman Catholic denominations still being catholic, well, its kinda up to what you believe. see catholic is a greek word (ironic the romans chose to use it for their banner,no?) that basically means universal. well sort of, the meaning gets lost in translation but universal is the easiest way to put it. so the universal church is what a catholic church is. this means it is the one true church and it is the churhc for everyone, no other church will suffice. so basically the apostolic churches would fit those if you believe in that stuff, so the RC and Orthodox churches are right. just the Orthodox are stubborn asses, while the Catholics are somewhat to political and popular minded.

now flame on

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

no its not. Protestants just ignore her.

Because God doesn't tell us to give her special treatment.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

It's "tragic" that you have taken your eyes off of God to place them on another dead human being.

Faith like yours would make you a fantastic protestant.

*smiles*

How many "dead human beings" have a virgin birth and ascend to heaven?

Hate to break it to ya Napoleon, but she was chosen because of her heart for God. There have been many people like her, but God only needed one virgin.

Also, I have read the Bible many times, and never is it said that she "ascended" to heaven, which would indicate that she was raptured, like Elijah.

Well, since you're not Catholic, then you wouldn't accept anything not from the bible so I won't even bother with her supposed assumption.

Anyways, Mary was without sin. She had a virgin birth of the Messiah, and it is widely believed and accepted by many that she ascended to heaven.

I think it is a disrespect to her to simply call her another "dead human being". Christ certainly thought highly of his mother, and I know you know of those instances in the scripture.

Also, in no way do Catholics take their eyes off God and focus on Mary. This is just a poor remark on your part, that I hope you know enough to realize it isn't true.

QUOTE Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Anyways, Mary was without sin.

How do you figure?

She was human, she must have sinned. If it were possible for her to not sin, then it would be possible for any newborn to not sin. If that is possible, then the verse that says (paraphrased) that "Christ died once, for all" would be null and void... there would be no need for a Savior, because that would mean that "works" (following the Law) would be the way to Justification.... "No one comes to the FATHER, but through the SON" (again, paraphrased).

Digital mentioned Elijah having been ratured. Although i cant remember who (Ezekiel, i think), there was another who was raptured. But it is thought that the two witnesses who will prophesy mentioned in Revelations, will be these two, and at that time they too, will experience death. (Although, others think that the witnesses are the Word and still others think it is the church.. the Bride of Christ.. but for various reasons, i tend to agree that it is those two prophets of old)



She had a virgin birth of the Messiah,

This is just like the question i asked about the Hebrews/Jews, as being God's People. Were they chosen by God because they were special... or were they special, because they were chosen. This goes for Mary.. but it also applies to each and every believer.

I know that "of my self", i am a sinner and no better than any other sinner. What makes me special, is having been chosen.. Jesus' blood.. GOD's Grace. And this is, what is most amazing to me.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

How do you figure?

Immaculate Conception.....



quote:This is just like the question i asked about the Hebrews/Jews, as being God's People. Were they chosen by God because they were special... or were they special, because they were chosen. This goes for Mary.. but it also applies to each and every believer.

I know that "of my self", i am a sinner and no better than any other sinner. What makes me special, is having been chosen.. Jesus' blood.. GOD's Grace. And this is, what is most amazing to me.

Mary had to be special though, because to carry the son of God, she had to be pure. You cannot be impure and carry God. That would be illogical. Therefore, we must assume that Mary was special.

quote:Originally posted by Streetvision:

Im a n00b when it comes to religion, so i was wondering i dont want a flame fesy but i want to know what is the diffrence between these 2 religions? or 2 demoninations of religion, because all i can see is one has a confessional and one dosent!

Christianity-

catholicism- protestant- orthodox-

its all the same religion its jus different sects

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Well, since you're not Catholic, then you wouldn't accept anything not from the bible so I won't even bother with her supposed assumption.

Anyways, Mary was without sin. She had a virgin birth of the Messiah, and it is widely believed and accepted by many that she ascended to heaven.

I think it is a disrespect to her to simply call her another "dead human being". Christ certainly thought highly of his mother, and I know you know of those instances in the scripture.

Also, in no way do Catholics take their eyes off God and focus on Mary. This is just a poor remark on your part, that I hope you know enough to realize it isn't true.

Why would I need anything other than God's inspired word ? Sure, we can get into the validity of the books that WERE canonized and why, but...I think God made it clear that the Bible is all we need.

Mary was not without sin, since she was born a human being. All humans are born into sin, including Mary. If you think otherwise, you are in direct disagreement with God.

Our spirit is dead in sin when we are born; that is, we are born void of God. No person is ever born with God. The only exception is the Lord Jesus Christ Who came as God in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16).

How is it disrespect to call Mary what she is ? Mother Theresa was a fantastic human being, but alas...she is still dead.

You are alive, and when you die, your body expires. The same is true of Mary. She was given no special treatment, other than the privilege of giving birth to the Messiah.

Christ told us to love our mother's and father's, and to respect them. Mary called herself blessed, not Christ. He loved her, for sure...she was his mother. But that love was no greater and no different than the love any of us can have for our mother's.

If you are praying to Mary, you are thinking about her, and not God. It's a simple concept. Mary does not deserve this kind of reverence or attention, since she is not greater than any other human being. God wants you to talk to Him, and Him alone. Any other kind of prayer is idolatry.

Give me some scriptures that support what you say, or simply agree to disagree.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

We are learning about this in school. Back in the 16th century ish, there was a guy called Martin Luther, he protested against the Catholics hence the name protestent. He protested because the Catholics believed that the pope was god on earth, and he could make no mistake at all. And they also believed, if you bought this letter thing from the church, you could be forgaven of your sins. So this Martin Luther Character protested and said, I am not following a man, who god didn't choose specifically, I follow the bible.

that has to be the worst account of the reformation that i have ever heard.you couldn't get it more wrong if you tried.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Mary was not without sin, since she was born a human being. All humans are born into sin, including Mary. If you think otherwise, you are in direct disagreement with God.

Jesus was holy. That is not debateable. For a holy person to be born a human, the person carrying Jesus would have to be pure. It is impossible for the son of God to be born of something that is not pure. It is impossible. Therefore, to say otherwise goes in direct disagreement with logic.

quote:How is it disrespect to call Mary what she is ? Mother Theresa was a fantastic human being, but alas...she is still dead.

I would think that the mother of Christ, vessel for the holy spirit would be thought of as a little more than just a human. God obviously thought of her as more, considering he made her immaculate.

quote:You are alive, and when you die, your body expires. The same is true of Mary. She was given no special treatment, other than the privilege of giving birth to the Messiah.

To give birth to the Messiah, she would have to be special. Catholics recognize that Mary is special in the entire scope of things.

quote:If you are praying to Mary, you are thinking about her, and not God. It's a simple concept. Mary does not deserve this kind of reverence or attention, since she is not greater than any other human being. God wants you to talk to Him, and Him alone. Any other kind of prayer is idolatry.

Mary is not a human being. She is holy, because God made her part of him. She isn't God, but she certainly is a very special figure, and it certainly isn't idolatry to pray to her. Also, praying to Mary(a vessel of God), would not be idolatry anyways, because she isn't being treated as an equal of God and she is not distinguished from God.

quote:Give me some scriptures that support what you say, or simply agree to disagree.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

I don't think you'll ever concede, just like I won't, so I can agree to disagree(assuming you aren't enlightened by the link above).

mary?

sorry but the evidence tends to suggest that she was a not to bright,emo, 13 year old who got herself knocked up -probably incestously.

Well if you say it, it must be true.... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Well if you say it, it must be true.... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

i said 'suggests' and unlike most people here i have had actually studied the evidence and the various theories.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

i said 'suggests' and unlike most people here i have had actually studied the evidence and the various theories.

Don't be shy then.

I'd love to see this evidence.

quote:Jesus was holy. That is not debateable

says who??

the nature of christ was and is one of the biggest theological questions around. and you can check that with any priest.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

says who??

the nature of christ was and is one of the biggest theological questions around. and you can check that with any priest.



Considering this is being argued from the perspective of catholics and protestants, it isn't a debateable point.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Considering this is being argued from the perspective of catholics and protestants, it isn't a debateable point.

it isn't??

and you think i'm gonna try and explain the complexities of biblical scholarship regarding mary to you?

For the purpose of this debate it isn't. It is an assumed truth for this debate on Mary. You can't have this debate on Mary unless you assume Jesus was the Son of Christ.

It would just be an even bigger waste of time if this were to be conducted that way.

And please, explain the "complexities"(links are appreciated).

quote:You can't have this debate on Mary unless you assume Jesus was the Son of Christ.

i take it that was a typo. please, please tell me it was a typo cos its too late at night to go down the road of 'jesus the parent'.

quote:And please, explain the "complexities"(links are appreciated).

if you are seriously interested then go talk to a priest. he'll be able to give you a rough guide to the stuff i'm refering to. he'll also be able to give you the reasons why your church rejects them in part or whole.

if he can't ,he'll put you in touch with someone who can.

irs 2am and i'm off to bed.

napoleon_complex, i started to reply (your imaculate conception post), our internet conection froze as i was looking for stuff for that reply, by the time it was unfroze, Digital had covered more or less what i was going to say.

Now since a few different comments and disagreement have been opened up.

Although, to my knowledge, i do not think that Christians are in debate as to Jesus' nature (God Incarnate), for the sake of our conversation, i think that you and i are in agreement (that Jesus is the Son of God, one of the Persons of the Trinity).. if you and i are not in agreement, then i have no idea how to proceed with this discussion.

If we are in agreement, then i have to first apologize. I always understood "imaculate conception" as describing Christ Jesus' conception, not Mary's... until i looked in the dictionary. I am very embarassed at my ignorance of such a basic term.

OK, now, considering that my faux pas, i better ask a few questions to maybe avoid future mistakes caused from assumptions.

1. Catholics do believe that while He was 'in the Flesh' (about 2000 years ago) He was fully human AND fully God, AND that He is the Son of God, correct?

2. Catholics doctrine is that the Bible is God's inspired, infallible Word, right?

There maybe a few more questions as we go, but for now, i think it's good enough.

p.s. just so you know, i havent blown off our discussion of Matthew 16:16-19, and if this conversation permits, i'm going to try to deal with that here as well... but only if the convo goes in that direction.

---------

p.p.s. i'm not trying to eclipse anyone elses comments on the matter, i'm just trying to regroup to make it alittle more organized... this is one instance where i think it would be easier face-to-face, so as best possible, i'm going to try to treat this in that manner...

i'll wait for your response, before we continue. Just so we know if we are on the same page.

i'll also try to keep my comments to a minimum on other threads, so i dont get quite so sidetracked.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

i take it that was a typo. please, please tell me it was a typo cos its too late at night to go down the road of 'jesus the parent'.

What I mean is, we have to assume that Jesus was devine to have a debate about Mary. We can't debate the devinity of Mary, unless we assume the devinity of Jesus.

That sentence does seem a bit wierd now that I look back upon it.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Although, to my knowledge, i do not think that Christians are in debate as to Jesus' nature (God Incarnate), for the sake of our conversation, i think that you and i are in agreement (that Jesus is the Son of God, one of the Persons of the Trinity).. if you and i are not in agreement, then i have no idea how to proceed with this discussion.

I'm still up in the air as to what I believe about Jesus, but for this discussion we can both assume that Jesus is the Son of God, part of the trinity, etc...

quote:If we are in agreement, then i have to first apologize. I always understood "imaculate conception" as describing Christ Jesus' conception, not Mary's... until i looked in the dictionary. I am very embarassed at my ignorance of such a basic term.

It can be used to describe both. Jesus was born immaculate, and he was born of an immaculate woman. For Jesus to be born without sin, he cannot come from sin. It is a logical impossibility.

quote:1. Catholics do believe that while He was 'in the Flesh' (about 2000 years ago) He was fully human AND fully God, AND that He is the Son of God, correct?

Yes, catholics believe that Jesus was both human and devine.

quote:2. Catholics doctrine is that the Bible is God's inspired, infallible Word, right?

Yes.

quote:p.s. just so you know, i havent blown off our discussion of Matthew 16:16-19, and if this conversation permits, i'm going to try to deal with that here as well... but only if the convo goes in that direction.

---------

p.p.s. i'm not trying to eclipse anyone elses comments on the matter, i'm just trying to regroup to make it alittle more organized... this is one instance where i think it would be easier face-to-face, so as best possible, i'm going to try to treat this in that manner...

i'll wait for your response, before we continue. Just so we know if we are on the same page.

i'll also try to keep my comments to a minimum on other threads, so i dont get quite so sidetracked.

All understandable and I wouldn't be worried about it. I know that I have more time than most people, so I try not to push for responses, and I understand if people don't respond right away.

quote:t can be used to describe both. Jesus was born immaculate, and he was born of an immaculate woman. For Jesus to be born without sin, he cannot come from sin. It is a logical impossibility.-napoleon_complex

and we wouldn't want any illogicality in a debate about something like immaculate conception,would we?

This is being debated from a christian perspective, so we're assuming that Jesus was devine, and was born of an Immaculate Conception(which has to be true if we're to assume he is devine).

Can you maybe provide some links about that Mary thing you talked about earlier?

check this out: http://www.carm.org/catholic.htm

interesting site in whole really.

napoleon, i've been trying to think of a way to have this conversation without appearing to anyone else 'looking on' that you and i are bashing each others religion. Since both Catholics and Lutherans believe in Christ's 'work on the cross', we really are on the same 'team'.

The other reason i have been having trouble 'getting the ball rolling' is, i was hoping that this wouldnt be like the 'Peter/Pope' convo, where we basically just danced in a circle.

Like i said, as Christians, we really are 'on the same team'. So the disagreements that denominations have over God's Word, is sending the message to unbelievers that, "if they (Christian denominations) cant agree, then it could be partly or wholly, wrong". (I'm talking here of outside TOTSE-- which does carry over to people that visit the forum).

That being said, i'm going to just post something i found in the Q & A section of the WELS (Wis. Evangelical Lutheran Synod) site:

"Q: I recently had a discussion with my mother, who is Catholic, about the virgin mother of Jesus. I told her that Mary had to have been born in sin because her father and mother were born in sin. Her Father passed on sin just as Adam did. She was a bit confused about the Catholic teachings so she searched the internet and sent me the following information. http://1stholistic.com/Prayer/hol_mary-chapter-3-4.htm#Chapter3 She hi-lited chapters 2 & 3. How do I respond to her faith in such teachings?

A: The Introduction to this lengthy treatise by Mrs. Cicily Sunny clearly identifies the sources of the ideas presented. These are all supposed "visions" and "apparitions" that people said they received and then recorded. Excerpts of this information are here put down my Mrs. Sunny in her attempt to uphold the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary and her role as active participant in accomplishing our salvation. The words and teachings are non-biblical and largely anti-biblical. They in many respects reflect medieval church folklore but neither claim to come from Scripture nor are they compatible with Scripture.

So what can we do when people desire to base at least some of their religious beliefs on sources fully outside of Scripture? Aside from making it clear that their cherished convictions are not biblical, we can continue to testify as simply and clearly as we can to the revealed truths of the Bible. Nothing more and nothing less. And our primary focus will remain on Christ and his perfectly accomplished substitutionary atonement on our behalf, and the message of full and free forgiveness that comes with that.

Sharing this Bible truth lovingly and repeatedly is the best message you can give to your mother. Continue to love her and tenderly speak law and gospel to emphasize her sinfulness and clarify truths of her Savior from sin. This may or may not remove the errors that she retains from a lifetime of indoctrination in classic Catholicism, but it can "override" the error on that day when she dies and must stand before her Lord. Then she will join the real virgin Mary and rejoice in God her Savior (Luke 1:46-47).

A more firm grasp on the needed and perfectly accomplished work of Jesus Christ is also the strongest antidote for mariolatry. The false, non-biblical ideas flourish especially when the sufficiency of Christ's work and the certainty of salvation through him alone are obscured or downplayed. "



I hope this conveys both the intention of this conversation, and the delicacy in which we should treat it.

Both, the Catholics and the rthodox' have Saints. The Orthodox Christians pray to them for sure and most certainly so do the Catholics, in spite of what was written in this thread. The Catholics also have a cult for statues while the Orthodox Christians don't.

The main difference however, is the belief of the Catholics that there is a purgatory. There is no such thing mentioned in the Bible.

The two curches separated because the Catholics (the later Catholics) sent a somewhat crazy Bishop to the negotiations.

Now they're negotiating for bringing the two sister churches toghethr again.

I just want to say I only read the first page and some parts of the second, so if I re-post something I'm sorry.

quote:Originally posted by allthegoodnamesweregone:

just to play devils advocate

ocean even the devil "belives in christ"

sorry i dont believe in THE DEVIL.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

You are soooooo much more neutral and un-biased than the religious people. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

i think you're trying to insult me, but thats ok, i will take it as a compliment, i was an ignorant, head strong Catholic girl once, that argued RE. to no end, well untill i woke up, its just a waste of time.

have a nice day,

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

There are tons of differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. Jesus started the Church that would later call itself the Catholic Church and put special authority in it. The Church has a rich faith and culture. Its wonderful. And its tragic that other denominations have broken away from it.

Amen! I mean why else is the Catholic religeon the most practiced christian religeon in the world? Jesus helped the Jews and our christianity probably branched from them, but I guess it depends on your beliefs. That is what is told to me about Jesus. There really isn't no catholism vs. christianity because catholics are christians. It's just a different denomination. Just think of the different religeons as cousins in one family. We have reconciliation, yes and we adore Mary for the reason she "concieved of the Holy Spirit" and raised Jesus perfectly. We do things differently but have the same goal in the end. Jesus does not care whether you are Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, whatever. You still worship God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. 3 in 1.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:



Like i said, as Christians, we really are 'on the same team'. So the disagreements that denominations have over God's Word, is sending the message to unbelievers that, "if they (Christian denominations) cant agree, then it could be partly or wholly, wrong". (I'm talking here of outside TOTSE-- which does carry over to people that visit the forum).



'on the same team'

Catholics and protestants are on the same team in the same fashion muslims and jews are on the same team sure they are all based roughly on the old testament but they are completely different religions.

The best way to explain the difference between protestants and Catholics

is that protestants burn in hell and catholics don't. Ask your catholic priest if that theory is right http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

How many "dead human beings" have a virgin birth and ascend to heaven?

Exactamente! Also, Jesus was human as well. I am sure Protestants believe in Jesus too. Mary was the chosen woman to carry and raise the Holy Son of God. In those times, I'm sure it was a big risk and a big responsibility in those days as it is today. Women are respected.

quote:Originally posted by devilangel212:

Exactamente! Also, Jesus was human as well. I am sure all Christians believe in Jesus too. Mary was the chosen woman to carry and raise the Holy Son of God. In those times, I'm sure it was a big risk and a big responsibility in those days as it is today. Women are respected.

quote:Originally posted by 1duck:

'on the same team'

Catholics and protestants are on the same team in the same fashion muslims and jews are on the same team sure they are all based roughly on the old testament but they are completely different religions.

The best way to explain the difference between protestants and Catholics

is that protestants burn in hell and catholics don't. Ask your catholic priest if that theory is right http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

Well, first of all, i'm not catholic.

Second, many of the members in this forum are agnostic/atheist, so by 'on the same team', i meant we are both Christians.

Third, believers in Jesus the Christ do not burn in hell.. catholic or protestant. Christ paid the penalty for our sins.

Fourth, Jews are still God's people. God still has a Covenant with His people. They are just waiting for the Messiah (Christ), which will be at the Second Coming. Thank God that they didnt recognize Him the first time (for the sake of us gentiles).

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Well, first of all, i'm not catholic.

Second, many of the members in this forum are agnostic/atheist, so by 'on the same team', i meant we are both Christians.

Third, believers in Jesus the Christ do not burn in hell.. catholic or protestant. Christ paid the penalty for our sins.

Fourth, Jews are still God's people. God still has a Covenant with His people. They are just waiting for the Messiah (Christ), which will be at the Second Coming. Thank God that they didnt recognize Him the first time (for the sake of us gentiles).



1) i gathered that by your 'we are on the same team statement'

2)christian and catholic are not the same just as muslims and jews are not the same.

3)Jesus opened not only the gates of heaven but the gates of hell. Without confession and true repent everyone ends up there but seen as protestants don't follow the one true faith so they can't confess believe in it so they are gauranteed to be banished to hell.

4)Nice theory but jews burn too.

QUOTE Originally posted by 1duck:



1) i gathered that by your 'we are on the same team statement'

same team, as both believe in Christ's work on the cross

2)christian and catholic are not the same

just as muslims and jews are not the same.

No, not like muslims and jews.

Anyway, catholics are christians, as are protestants. both believe in Christ's work on the cross.

The differences between Prot./Catho. lies in the basis of the discussion between napoleon and i.. namely, how the authority of God's Word is understood... whether the Bible is the authoritive Word of God, or if and how much God has delegated authority to Tradition and the Pope (or other clergy, for that matter)

3)Jesus opened not only the gates of heaven but the gates of hell. Without confession and true repent everyone ends up there but seen as protestants don't follow the one true faith so they can't confess believe in it so they are gauranteed to be banished to hell.

This really is the crux of every topic on belief... which is the true/correct one (belief)?.. I'm guessing you might be catholic.?

4)Nice theory but jews burn too.

Some will, yes.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

QUOTE Originally posted by 1duck:



I'm guessing you might be catholic.?

[b]4)Nice theory but jews burn too.

Some will, yes.

All jews will burn if catholics are right and no im not i was just baiting you.

quote:Originally posted by 1duck:

All jews will burn if catholics are right and no im not i was just baiting you.



can you show me the catholic doctrine, that says "all jews will burn".

As far as i know, catholics believe in the Second Coming, and that it was prophecy that He would be rejected, and for the purpose of including the gentiles. But, if God made a covenant, He made a covenant. (i know, that sounds like a kid... "but dad, you promised..")

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:



can you show me the catholic doctrine, that says "all jews will burn".

As far as i know, catholics believe in the Second Coming, and that it was prophecy that He would be rejected, and for the purpose of including the gentiles. But, if God made a covenant, He made a covenant. (i know, that sounds like a kid... "but dad, you promised..")



Just go ask a priest honestly from what little i bothered listening too in catholic school this was a while back it must be said before you take it too seriously.

Catholics stood the chance to go to heaven but only if they were good, protestants were condemnded to hell because the catholic church accepted protestant baptism but they couldnt repent so they were in effect condemned and everyone else got purgatory unless they had a chance to convert and didnt bother at which point they go to hell which as the priest said was everyone apart from children who died before they got the chance or some dodgy tribes in africa and the amazon.

Therefore jews burn but this was back in the day when the priests werent bothered about calling it the one true faith and you were either catholic or protestant or an atheist catholic or an atheist protestant.

http://www.bible.ca/cath-one-true-church.htm

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

napoleon,

i've been trying to think of a way to have this conversation without appearing to anyone else 'looking on' that you and i are bashing each others religion. <<snipped>>

I hope this conveys both the intention of this conversation, and the delicacy in which we should treat it.

napoleon, thank you for being patient for my response. I'm only bumping this, incase you had not noticed that i had made a response, not because i am being impatient with you.. if you want or need the time, that's cool.

Just bumping incase of oversight.. no big deal if it was or wasnt.

OH COME ON THIS SI THE EASIEST QUESTION EVER

THE ANSWER IS ISLAM