Well, Before when I was kinda sceptical(sp) about the existance of god/heavns(sp)

My grandma would tell me this storie. She had an close to death experiece when she had surgery. She said she remembered floating over her body then seeing a ring of light.

Well I was thinking about this.

Then I saw the movie 'Escape from Hell' It was accualy kind of a doucumentry. And all these people who had mear death experieces explained something close to what my grandma explained to me, AND I WAS LIKE HOLY SHIT!!I was freking out. I never heard it before and here are people just like my grandms telling me the same thing, I mean It was sort of diff, on the movie they explained going thru a ring of buitiful light, that my grandma saw from far away.

Anyway I just wanted to make a point for all those kinda misleaded goth kids on Totse http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

That story in no way at all has anything to do with "god/heavns". From what i understand it is just nuerons in your brain rapidly firing out of control.

I seen a doco on this once where they would put astronauts into a machine that would create a near death experiance by spinning around and creating g-forces - they all seen the same thing you are talking about. It is not heaven.

When you're dying, your brain is frantically trying to stay alive. This includes, but not limited to, sending impulses in the brain itself, to keep your eye sight working. This caused one to "see" lights.

Like Daz said, this can be reproduced in the laboratory. In fact, that's exactly what Astronauts say happens right before they pass out, when they are subjected to high g-forces in their training. Why? The blood is leaving the brain, because of the high g-forces, so therefore the brain triggers the same response.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 06-13-2005).]

First off: ^What Rust said.

Secondly: Thank you for making a point to us "misleaded goth kids".

Thirdly: You're really judging your beliefs on the grounds of an old, probably senile, woman and a movie?

Just kidding about the senile part.

EDIT: Typo.

[This message has been edited by Paradise Lost (edited 06-13-2005).]

But what is it exactly that you believe?

You do know that if the majority of near death experiences are true, it disproves most versions of christianity (among other things).

You did actually study these things right?

Doesn't the brain also release datura when it thinks it's close to death? I remember hearing about some book on it, "The Spirit Molecule" or something like that.

That would be DMT not Datura (which is a plant).

Ok, So its in your head....

What if heaven just a state of mind? What if heavens at the end of that lighted cirlce?

So now you're abandoning the silly argument of NDE's proving god exists, and are replacing that if even more foolish ideas? Great.

If heaven is a state of mind, then who the hell gives a shit?

If heaven was a state of mind then, by definition, wouldn't it cease to be heaven?

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

If heaven was a state of mind then, by definition, wouldn't it cease to be heaven?

Depends on which definition you look at.

Everyone is told the same thing about near-death experiences. they are told they see a ring of light or whatever. Basically you are now corrupted, you are going to think of ring of lights when you under go surgery and stuff. So its not really heaven but just your memory recalling all of the stuff you have heard of over the years.

That and the Brain thing.

What about the NDE's where the person near death could recall word for word the conversations of those operating on them even though they were dead or unconscious?

They simply weren't dead. The clinical definition of "dead", is, the lack of electrical activity in the brain.

A hospital does not check, in normal circumstances, for electrical activity in the brain when one is dying; be it from a blood clot, cardiac arrest et cetera. They use a "rule of thumb" which is essentially, any patient who has not been resuscitated from cardiac arrest for a given amount of time is presumed dead (i.e. since the brain must function with blood).

So when a person says, I "was dead in the E.R. and I remembered them saying 'blahbity blah blah blah", they were not really dead, but under cardiac arrest.

The brain can still functions seconds after blood flow has stopped to it. For example, people who have been decapitated on the guillotine (and other places such as war) have responded to stimulus, and even human emotion, for seconds after the decapitation. It is therefore no surprise that a person can still have the capacity to listen, while under cardiac arrest.

Add to this the fact that this could have easily been the product of some subconscious idea. I would imagine that being under the stressful and fast-paced conditions of trying to resuscitate a person, the doctor would not remember whatever the hell he said.

Someone could claim that he said "We're losing her!" and he would probably not remember.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 06-14-2005).]

*pats krys on the back*

here's lookin at you kid....good luck.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)