...I return.

Quick recap:

I moved to Oregon. Packed up a truck (4 times, in order to make it all fit), the kids, 2 cats, and a dog, and drove for 3 days straight. It was horrible. (we all caught the flu !)

I saw much of God's beautiful creation I had only previously imagined, which was enlightening, at the very least.

Portland is gorgeous, but we are running in to a multitude of "issues". We have been, by definition, homeless. Staying in and out of hotels, and finally relying on the graciousness and mercy of our college (staying in their guest apartment).

This has been a humbling experience.

I have spent much of my time praying, and seeking God's guidance.

This brings me to an impasse I believe a lot of Christians struggle with...

Some think that God "helps those that help themselves". While I believe that to be true to a certain extent, I can't incorporate such a blatant disregard for the need of God's blessing in our lives into MINE.

Still others believe that we must rely completely on God, and do everything in HIS time.

I am more inclined to hold that belief, yet there is much of me that is far too stubborn, assertive, and independent to surrender to Him completely.

For the Christians, which of these mindsets do you hold ?

For those that think the latter of the two is most appropriate, am I impeding God's will for my life by trying to keep hold of the reigns ?

*sighs*

I want to let go and "let God" so very much...but I am struggling with it.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Welcome back.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

For the Christians, which of these mindsets do you hold ?

For those that think the latter of the two is most appropriate, am I impeding God's will for my life by trying to keep hold of the reigns ?

Welcome back, and God's Blessings in your studies.

I think i agree with the second case more than the first, but i too, find my rebelion more ... convinient(not sure if that's the right word)

On the other hand, without setting up a "free-will/omniscience" debate in your thread, and also at the risk of being held to "going against" what i profess... i think that ALL things are ultimately God's Will, but if God told me to go to the moon, and i sat on my butt, waiting for Him to put me there... well, common sense does point to "God helps those who help themselves". Not to say He couldnt put me there, but why should He help, if i dont trust Him enough to do what He wants.

I hope this made sense.

BTW, my hat is off to you (and your family).

May God bless you and yours, more than you can imagine as you honor and serve Him.

I disagree i think the right ballance is in the middle God wont just hand it all over to us, we need to make a push for what we/God wants. Having said that though Ialso belive that we need to always be open to what he wants us to recive...

im guessing tht made no sense...

[This message has been edited by allthegoodnamesweregone (edited 06-16-2005).]

quote:Welcome back, and God's Blessings in your studies.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

...I return.

Quick recap:

I moved to Oregon. Packed up a truck (4 times, in order to make it all fit), the kids, 2 cats, and a dog, and drove for 3 days straight. It was horrible. (we all caught the flu !)

I saw much of God's beautiful creation I had only previously imagined, which was enlightening, at the very least.

Portland is gorgeous, but we are running in to a multitude of "issues". We have been, by definition, homeless. Staying in and out of hotels, and finally relying on the graciousness and mercy of our college (staying in their guest apartment).

This has been a humbling experience.

I have spent much of my time praying, and seeking God's guidance.

This brings me to an impasse I believe a lot of Christians struggle with...

Some think that God "helps those that help themselves". While I believe that to be true to a certain extent, I can't incorporate such a blatant disregard for the need of God's blessing in our lives into MINE.

Still others believe that we must rely completely on God, and do everything in HIS time.

I am more inclined to hold that belief, yet there is much of me that is far too stubborn, assertive, and independent to surrender to Him completely.

For the Christians, which of these mindsets do you hold ?

For those that think the latter of the two is most appropriate, am I impeding God's will for my life by trying to keep hold of the reigns ?

*sighs*

I want to let go and "let God" so very much...but I am struggling with it.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Welcome back, hun. I missed you bunches.

I believe that to reject the proposition that you should try let God work his will in your life is tantamount to suggesting that God doesn't have a plan for you. I see God as something of a micromanager, someone who's always speaking to each of us. The universe, after all, was created with God's word, and he keeps it in existence during every moment with the strength of his word. He gave us free will, but still with his word all around us, I have to believe he's sending each of us signals telling us what he wants from us. When we submit to God's suggestion and act on those signals we are letting God work his will through us and fulfilling his plan.

quote:Rabban Gamliel the Second, son of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi, president of the Sanhedrin and descendent of King David, said: "Do G-d's will as you would do your own will, so that He may do your will as if it were His; subjugate your will to His will so that He may subjugate the will of others to your will." (Pirkei Avos [Ethics of the Fathers] 2:4)

[This message has been edited by Sephiroth (edited 06-17-2005).]

Congratulations on your new home by the way.

I was wondering where Digital_Saviour was.

quote:Originally posted by allthegoodnamesweregone:

I disagree i think the right ballance is in the middle God wont just hand it all over to us, we need to make a push for what we/God wants. Having said that though Ialso belive that we need to always be open to what he wants us to recive...

im guessing tht made no sense...



Suppose what we believe to be His will is NOT His will ?

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Welcome back, and God's Blessings in your studies.

Thanks, guys.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

HOw much of what we construe to be His will is truly His, and what of it is our own personal desires ?

Notice I did not get a strong inclination to sell all of my belongings (rich man asking Jesus what he should do to get into heaven), and set up camp in Guatemala ?

Could my first real assignment as a missionary be to go to college for FREE (GI Bill), in beautiful Portland, OR ?

Could it really be that good, or did I just hear what I wanted to hear ?

Of course, I know the answer to these questions, but I am very interested in what YOU all think.

Some great answers guys...and pretty much along the same lines of my own thinking.

Yet another fundamentalist in the PNW... Err why didn't you get a house or something before you moved?

First you try to insult me by calling me what I am (a genius move, I should say !), and then you question the motive behind my actions ?

*shakes head*

one of the first things i learnt and relearn every day is 'How do you make God laugh? tell him your plans for the future'

yes i know you're not planning but question his role for you.

and thats the problem.

he'll decide where he wants you, he's pretty good at that....and whatever you think he might want you're wrong....we always are.

don't try to second guess him.

yeah after all "trust in the lord and not you own understanding"

God creation doesn't compare to human creation. God can't hack it no more. What a chump.

Jack, I wouldn't consider what I am doing "second guessing".

While I agree with you for the most part, I cannot say with any certainty that I should just flit around my life, waiting for God to make things happen so that I will be where He wants me.

If this were how it were done, then I could never claim free will.

I would merely be a pawn, and I am sure you are well aware of the fact that I do not believe that.

I am charged to listen for His voice, and watch for His signs. If I misinterpret them and do something outside of His will, the fruit of that labor will show. God can still use any situation for His purpose, so not much is lost on His account...though I may spend years suffering in my own life because I did not listen to Him.

For instance, God did not want me to marry my first husband. As a result, my life was not worth living for many years.

I have finally paid for that transgression with my own suffering, and He is ready to use me again.

I guess the most you can say of this thread is that I am paranoid that I am not listening intently enough. I don't want to spend another 6 years wandering around in a spiritual desert simply because I did what I wanted, instead of what He wanted.

digi, all you need to do or are required to do is to pray 'god use me as you will' and then let him get on with it. until he does, or rather until you with hindsight perceive that he was leading all along, you just do what you think is best for you.

They always come back for more...

Good to see you again.

Cheers,

Lost

Thanks, Lost. Good to be back.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Blah blah blah jesus god nonsense stupidity blah blah blah

You aren't making sense.

railroad you never do...

quote:Originally posted by allthegoodnamesweregone:

railroad you never do...

You don't post anywhere but here and I only post here occasionally and only a couple times recently. I seriously doubt you have ever even seen me before. Plus, you are defending by association. Congrats tool.

And so in one of your few visits to the forum, you decide to drop in just to belittle people, because you think it reflects well on you. I don't think we need to see any more of your posts to figure out that you're an asshole and a dumbass.

*winks* @ Seph

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



Could my first real assignment as a missionary be to go to college for FREE (GI Bill), in beautiful Portland, OR ?



I didn't know you were in the service, Digi. What branch? My old man was in the Air Force during Vietnam.

Also, I'm glad your move to Oregon went A-OK. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

And so in one of your few visits to the forum, you decide to drop in just to belittle people, because you think it reflects well on you. I don't think we need to see any more of your posts to figure out that you're an asshole and a dumbass.

That is exactly what it is. Yep.

Suck my dick, almighty admin of a joke of a forum.

Social, I did 4 in the Navy.

My grandfather started it...he was in the Navy, serving at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed.

That started the whole family.

Both my parents were Army, and I went Navy.

Thanks for the sweet post !

You ought to IM me sometime.

AIM: desired hush

How are YOU doing, by the way ? Don't see you around too much anymore.

quote:Originally posted by the phantom stranger:

I was wondering where Digital_Saviour was.

Who are YOU ?

*lol*