even though i do not beleive in anything remotely spiritual, I recognize that for a civilized world religion is neccessary.

humans are simply to immorale to be able to carry out their lives without some beleif or faith to keep them, well, sane.

i accept the truth.

but it is neccessary for me that you beleive the lie.

what say you?

p.s. im not trying to argue or change your beleifs, i only want to judge your reaction.

quote:Originally posted by The Marksman:

but it is neccessary for me that you beleive the lie.

What lie, and why is this lie neccessary for you?

quote:Originally posted by The Marksman:

what say you?

You're not a pirate.

the lie is that you beleive in spirituality.

by beleiving that you are more easily organized into a society.

in other words religion is a basis for civilization.

i need civilization to allow me to live my life in comfort

so i need you to beleive in something i dont for civilization to exsist.

[This message has been edited by The Marksman (edited 06-17-2005).]

You can have a civilization without religion or a spiritual base.

name one.

The former Soviet Union.

quote:Originally posted by The Marksman:

i accept the truth.

but it is neccessary for me that you beleive the lie.

this is a rhetorical answer: What truth do you except?

What lie that "I" believe?

Now this part is not rhetorical:

If you are saying that the Christian belief of "Christ died for our sins" as the lie, then it main thing that matters is if it is the truth or not.

Your wording, "but it is neccessary for me that you beleive the lie" is curious. This could be taken as, for your (The Marksman) truth to hold true, people need to follow somesort of religious belief...

If this is the case, go back to my rhetorical answers.

or i could be understood that the words "it" and "is" were backassward, and you meant to type: "but is it neccessary for me that you believe the lie" (as a question)

In this case, the answer is (with the rhetorical answer inclusive) yes, and no.

yes, because if Christianity is correct, and not the lie, this may be the way for you to realize what is the truth.

no, because your belief is not neccessary for my salvation... only my belief (ok, that's a theological can of worms..but i'll deal with that, if it is pointed out.. just trying to sorta keep this simple)

During December 2000 and January 2001 survey workers administered a two-part, 96-item questionnaire to 732 subjects. Objective and short essay questions in Part I explored autobiographical and church-related themes. Part II, which was completely anonymous, included questions relating to Christian faith and practice, using multiple choice and Likert (strongly agree, agree, neutral, disagree, strongly disagree) formats. On average, completion of the questionnaire took 75 minutes. Respondents included 604 Russians (from 118 cities and 171 churches), 65 Ukrainians (from 18 cities and 27 churches), and 63 Byelorussians (from 10 cities and 11 churches). The denominational breakdown was 503 Evangelical Christians-Baptists, 90 Seventh-day Adventists, 30 Pentecostals, and 109 other Protestant Christians, including Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and members of independent churches. All Ukrainian and Byelorussian respondents were Evangelical Christian-Baptist. Evangelical Christians-Baptists constituted 69 percent of respondents and are the focus of this report.

religion is an important part of the former soviet union

source: http://www .risu.org. ua/eng/rel igion.and. society/pr otestants.in.su/

xtreem5150ahm:

the truth is that religion is a lie

somebody made it up to give you a reason to follow what they think is morally correct.

people dont need to beleive in god to exsist

they beleive so they have salvation after death

its complex but the promise of salvation is integral to society.

which means religion is always going to be a part of society or society will crumble.

for me to exsist comfortebly while alive i must have society

therefore i need religion

but despite that neccesity for religion i accept that religion is an untruth forced on people for their own well being.

i can not be any more clear then that on my beleifs.

QUOTE Originally posted by The Marksman:

During December 2000 and January 2001 survey workers administered a two-part, 96-item questionnaire to 732 subjects. Objective and short essay questions in Part I explored autobiographical and church-related themes. Part II, which was completely anonymous, included questions relating to Christian faith and practice, using multiple choice and Likert (strongly agree, agree, neutral, disagree, strongly disagree) formats. On average, completion of the questionnaire took 75 minutes. Respondents included 604 Russians (from 118 cities and 171 churches), 65 Ukrainians (from 18 cities and 27 churches), and 63 Byelorussians (from 10 cities and 11 churches). The denominational breakdown was 503 Evangelical Christians-Baptists, 90 Seventh-day Adventists, 30 Pentecostals, and 109 other Protestant Christians, including Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and members of independent churches. All Ukrainian and Byelorussian respondents were Evangelical Christian-Baptist. Evangelical Christians-Baptists constituted 69 percent of respondents and are the focus of this report.

religion is an important part of the former soviet union

i agree with this part. The former soviet union was formerly refered to as "Holy Russia"....

Kinda like the artist formerly known as prince.

the truth is that religion is a lie

somebody made it up to give you a reason to follow what they think is morally correct.

people dont need to beleive in god to exsist

In order for your statement to be "the truth", you need to prove that God does not exist.

Without that proof, there is no way to prove that people can even exist without God's existance.

However, you do have a built in disclaimer in your statement. People can exist without belief in God. Although, this disclaimer actually contradicts your own truth.



they beleive so they have salvation after death

you are making an assumption. that assumption is two part: first, that there is no God

Second, that belief is actually a choice.

My Faith was given me by God. My Faith also precluded my knowledge of salvation and life beyond death. (i understood death at that time, just not life after it, nor the desire or need of it)

its complex but the promise of salvation is integral to society.

which means religion is always going to be a part of society or society will crumble.

again, based on assumption that there is no God.

therefore i need religion

yup, agree with you here.

but despite that neccesity for religion i accept that religion is an untruth forced on people for their own well being.

hmmm... "Faith given me by God" compared to "forced on people for their own well being"

it might be possible that in away, you are right on this one... but i think that is semantics, or rather, perspective. That Faith was a gift that (argueably) i could have refused....

..i'll have to think on that one for awhile.

i can not be any more clear then that on my beleifs.[/B][/QUOTE]

People belive what they choose to believe. My belief system is very different from the majority of people in my community. The area in which I live is very Catholic. Most of my friends have no religion at all, and the few who do are Christian/Catholic, while I'm agnostic and Buddhist.Religion doesn't always hold civilization together. Sometimes it rips it apart (look at the middle east now, and pretty much every country at some point in history).

i thought the middle east was pottering along fine, minding its own business, then some idiots decided to commit 9/11 and so USA went to town on afghanistan, then iraq. uve got dickheads in every society, where did the religion part tear the middle east up?

^you do not know what is going on.



the middle east has been in constant civil unrest(war, but not really) for thousands of years.

its when america started supplying those middle eastern countries with weapons that problems started, but that was a long time ago.

9/11 was not directly related to the war, it was the son of the leader of iraq acting in turn with iran leaders in hopes of defacing american culture.

because they are fanatical imperialists like england used to be.

iraqs intent to use weapons of mass destruction if availible, is why they went to war.

(wheither or not WofMD are availible to iraq)

Humans are certainly immoral, but they created religion, so...

Your point loses all validity.

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

You're not a pirate.

Speak for yourself!

quote:Originally posted by The Marksman:

even though i do not beleive in anything remotely spiritual, I recognize that for a civilized world religion is neccessary.

humans are simply to immorale to be able to carry out their lives without some beleif or faith to keep them, well, sane.

i accept the truth.

but it is neccessary for me that you beleive the lie.

what say you?

p.s. im not trying to argue or change your beleifs, i only want to judge your reaction.

judge this, motherfucker: you're a stupid cockhole with a limited grasp of reality.

^ you seem scared to me

quote:Originally posted by The Marksman:

^ you seem scared to me



Second that.