This is for christians, mind you.

Why is looking at porn a sin?

Lust.

dosen't the original commandment say "thall shalt not commit adultery?"

[This message has been edited by Beholder (edited 06-30-2005).]

Yes, but Jesus established the theological principle for Christians that even having the thought means you have already commited it...

quote:Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

Yes, but Jesus established the theological principle for Christians that even having the thought means you have already commited it...



Then one could argue that if you even think of committing any sin, you have already done so.

I personally think this is BS. A person should rewarded for being able to restrain themselves from actually doing alot of things that go through their heads.

QUOTE Originally posted by Nemisis:

Then one could argue that if you even think of committing any sin, you have already done so.

Yes

[/b]I personally think this is BS. A person should rewarded for being able to restrain themselves from actually doing alot of things that go through their heads.[/B] /QUOTE

Would you go to the cop shop and say, "i was thinking about robbing the bank, but i restrained myself. Now someone owe me a reward.. or atleast a cookie."?

Expecting reward for restraint of actions is the same thing as assuming that "a good deed for the day" can cancel out a sin. Which is saying that it is possible to "work" our way to heaven. If this were possible, there would have been no need for God to offer His Son for atonement of our sins.

You would logically expect a reward since it means that your faith, (if you did not actually commit the sin because of your religious beliefs) won over temptation. If not a reward, then certainly not punishment! That's unreasonable.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

You would logically expect a reward since it means that your faith, (if you did not actually commit the sin because of your religious beliefs) won over temptation. If not a reward, then certainly not punishment! That's unreasonable.



all have been born into sin.

You evade the argument. Whether we are born "into" sin is irrelevant. The point it is unreasonable to be punished when your faith has conquered and not temptation. To do so is to reinforce temptation, and not faith.

quote:Originally posted by Beholder:

This is for christians, mind you.

Why is looking at porn a sin?



well think about it this way. Why don't they so porn at church. or on the news. Or on a rated G kids movie. And why do u have to be 18 to buy porn.

If u can answer my question u can answer ur question

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

Yes, but Jesus established the theological principle for Christians that even having the thought means you have already commited it...

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.



This should answer your question.



quote:

Then one could argue that if you even think of committing any sin, you have already done so.

I personally think this is BS. A person should rewarded for being able to restrain themselves from actually doing alot of things that go through their heads.

You have commited a sin in your mind. Learning to control your mind is a reward in itself wether you see it as one or not. And assuming since you are a christian I don't believe you should be worrying about rewards, but helping humanity.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

QUOTE Originally posted by Nemisis:

Then one could argue that if you even think of committing any sin, you have already done so.

Yes

I personally think this is BS. A person should rewarded for being able to restrain themselves from actually doing alot of things that go through their heads.[/B] /QUOTE

Would you go to the cop shop and say, "i was thinking about robbing the bank, but i restrained myself. Now someone owe me a reward.. or atleast a cookie."?

Expecting reward for restraint of actions is the same thing as assuming that "a good deed for the day" can cancel out a sin. Which is saying that it is possible to "work" our way to heaven. If this were possible, there would have been no need for God to offer His Son for atonement of our sins.[/B]

I wasn't talking about a physical reward. If we according to the bible will be judged for our sins then all those naughty thoughts will be held against you as well. The reward would be not being punished for these thoughts as you were able to retrain yourself from actually doing them.

quote:Originally posted by coolwestman:

You have commited a sin in your mind. Learning to control your mind is a reward in itself wether you see it as one or not. And assuming since you are a christian I don't believe you should be worrying about rewards, but helping humanity.



I'm not a christian. This is for all the people that are hardcore believers in the bible.

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

Lust.

But most christian divorces are caused by lack of lust

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

Yes, but Jesus established the theological principle for Christians that even having the thought means you have already commited it...

Matthew 5:28



Does this not depend on being married or not?

I thought adultery is of a married couple?

Porn is of lust:

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

1 Thess. 4:2, "For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God."

edit: found another verse.

[This message has been edited by vice (edited 06-30-2005).]

quote:

Originally posted by Lou Reed:

But most christian divorces are caused by lack of lust



r lust 4 a cute little boy LOL

quote:

Originally posted by coolwestman:

And assuming since you are a christian I don't believe you should be worrying about rewards, but helping humanity.



If i ever meet u i would like 2 shake ur hand if more christians where like that then i honestly believe that i might believe there was a god but i simply can't follow a religion where most everyone in the religion say one thing and do another and say o don't worry i believe in god so i'm going 2 heaven i just hope u honestly meant that and if there is a heaven i hope u go there

[This message has been edited by Shaokhano (edited 06-30-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

You would logically expect a reward since it means that your faith, (if you did not actually commit the sin because of your religious beliefs) won over temptation. If not a reward, then certainly not punishment! That's unreasonable.

Some Christians would say that it is dwelling upon lust that takes it to the level of adultery. Others would say that Jesus was an Hassidic Jew (Ethics of Our Fathers defines a Hassid as one "who does more than the letter of the law requires"). Essentially he was proposing a new standard of not only exercising our will over our bodies, but over our thoughts as well in the name of righteousness and that he drew the equivalency to make that point.

quote:Originally posted by Beholder:

This is for christians, mind you.

Why is looking at porn a sin?

Not only lust.

When you get in a car with a girl and drive to the woods pull over, and sleep with her and her you, it didn't 'just happen' it was planned out.

When you think on thoughts of sin it makes it easier for you to act it out when the opportunity comes. Everything you do, if you realize it or not, is thought out/premeditated. Example: You wake up in the morning with a bag of pot beside your headboard (temptation) you think you want to wake and bake, so you get some papers. You break up the pot and place it in the paper, then roll it. After rolling the now, 'joint' you light it up and puff.

The whole time you were taking step by step to getting stoned. At any moment you could have decided, 'I'm not smoking pot." Instead, the whole time you were PREPARING yourself to smoke it. You see?

You're preparing yourself to act out fornication/adultry/sexual temptation.

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

Some Christians would say that it is dwelling upon lust that takes it to the level of adultery. Others would say that Jesus was an Hassidic Jew (Ethics of Our Fathers defines a Hassid as one "who does more than the letter of the law requires"). Essentially he was proposing a new standard of not only exercising our will over our bodies, but over our thoughts as well in the name of righteousness and that he drew the equivalency to make that point.

What are these "thoughts"? They consist of either thinking about sinning, or not thinking about sinning. When is will being exercised over those thoughts? When one thinks of sinning, and chooses not to; since not having a thought of sinning does not require any will, and neither does choosing to sin.

It is this very will which xtreeme believes is a sin as well! He believes that people are punished for thinking about sinning, even if their will (fruit of their faith) wins, and prevents you from acting out on that sin!

That's unreasonable.

Thanks for all the help, I now understand;

Yet there is a point in which I disagree with.

quote:Yes, but Jesus established the theological principle for Christians that even having the thought means you have already commited it...

Matthew 5:2



But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.



I believe there is quite a difference from fufilling the natural almost uncontrolable urge to think about women and to willingly ogling a woman's short skirt.

I find it hard to govern my thoughts, yet there was a point in my life in which I was so close to GOD I could restrain from doing so, yet sin has distanced me and I'm climbing up the ladder again.



I also think that if restraining from sin isn't rewarded, it's at least a sign of spiritual maturity; as you are acting more like Jesus by intentionally going out of your way and against your sinfull nature to avoid a wrongdoing. This also strengthens the bond between you and God, which is in itself a reward.

Every temptation is a chance to be more like Jesus!



[This message has been edited by Beholder (edited 06-30-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

You evade the argument. Whether we are born "into" sin is irrelevant. The point it is unreasonable to be punished when your faith has conquered and not temptation. To do so is to reinforce temptation, and not faith.

i didnt evade.

we can not work our way to heaven. so if our faith prevailed, and we didnt commit the act, we are still sinful because sin is in us.

Even if we are sinless in thought and deed (which is impossible anyway), we are still condemned because we are infected already with sin. The only antidote is the innocent blood of the Lamb.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

I wasn't talking about a physical reward. If we according to the bible will be judged for our sins then all those naughty thoughts will be held against you as well. The reward would be not being punished for these thoughts as you were able to retrain yourself from actually doing them.

If you accept Jesus as the Christ and repent (have true sorrow for your sins and turn from them), then none of the sins are held against you, as Jesus already paid for them with His innocent suffering and death.

Only the people that have not become a new creation in Christ will have there sins(each and every sin) held against them.

Opens pan>Alt.binaries.erotica.hamster-bondage http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Lou Reed:

But most christian divorces are caused by lack of lust

*LOL*

Actually, you are not supposed to LUST after your spouse, either.

You are supposed to love them with God's perfect love, and the rest will be satisfying in ways that none of us could even imagine.

Lusting after a person is making that person an object.

It is difficult to explain, but it is detrimental to all involved (including the person with the lustful thoughts).

Desire and lust are entirely different animals. (you CAN desire your spouse...you can't LUST after them)

NOTE: Most Christian divorces are a result of not following God's commandments.

Rebellion breeds consequences.

^^^ indeed.

Thanks for all your help guys! Although I'm still not 100% on the right track yet, I'm getting there.

People get divorced because their sexlife sucks. It's the hard fucking truth. And without oral sex, your sex life cannot possibly be any good.

Human fact.

^^^What's wrong with married oral sex?

It's an abomination, or so the idiots say.

Yeah, that does sound like something an idiot would say, as I don't believe the bible even mentions oral sex.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

i didnt evade.

You didn't address the point, since your previous answer consisted only of "we're born into sin" which is not being debated.

quote:

we can not work our way to heaven. so if our faith prevailed, and we didnt commit the act, we are still sinful because sin is in us.

Even if we are sinless in thought and deed (which is impossible anyway), we are still condemned because we are infected already with sin. The only antidote is the innocent blood of the Lamb.

We are born sinners, yes, but that in no way shape or form means that we can sin all we want. There would be no point of labeling actions as "sins", no point in giving rules/commandments to be followed, and more strikingly, no point in the majority of the knowledge contained in the bible, if we're all born sinners and our actions following our birth didn't matter. They do matter.

Although we are born into sin, we must strive to not sin again. So being born into sin is not being questioned, what is being questioned is the punishement we recieve when our faith wins the battle against temptation, when we think of sinning, but don't sin again. That is unreasonable.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-01-2005).]

I assume from Matthew 5:28 that thinking lustful thoughts is sin ONLY when applied to a married couple?

The act of lust is sin overall.

Therefor if u aint marreeed den it aint sin ta think aboot it?!

I have not seen any other verse that says to think of sinning is a sin. That would not compute anyway!

Funny how lust and desire are two different words for the same fucking emotion. Religious people are so full of shit.

personally, the way to solve lust and desire, is to either train yourself not to, or to experience what you desire, once you experience, you no longer have the lust. Have you ever wanted a toy so bad? And then you got it and you stopped wanting it, thats how you can stop lust hahah, maybe not what Jesus wanted, but thats the easy way out. If you're going through moral issues about viewing pornography, get a girlfriend, treat her well, get some sexual favors from her, and you give em to her, and you'll have no need for porn in the first place. See thats the thing with the bible, its not exactly timeless in all cases, for example, people back then married between 12-16 depending on if you were male or female, so they didnt even have this problem of waiting years for marriage and didn't have to deal with sexual frustration for too long.