http://www.zeitun-eg.org

http://www.webspawner.com/users/luciferslodge/thevirginmaryap.html

http://www.sancta.org/

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/mary0003.htm

[This message has been edited by Happy Jimmy (edited 07-07-2005).]

How do you know it's Mary? They are just woman shapes, it could be anyone.

What do believers have to say about the holy ghost having a microscopic cock?

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

How do you know it's Mary? They are just woman shapes, it could be anyone.

Yeah, but how can you explain the image on the tilma of Our lady de Guadalupe? It's still intact after more than 400 years.

I say you type out a short explanation of just what the hell your posting about or take your shit to IFIOTW.

Those pictures are scary! I'd better bow down to Jesus before Mary sucks my cock until my eyeballs explode.

Mary is a milf.

ahahahahahahaha

from wikipedia

Pareidolia (from Greek para- amiss, faulty, wrong + eidolon, diminutive of eidos appearance, form) is a psychological phenomenon involving a vague and random stimulus (usually an image) being mistakenly perceived as recognizable. Common examples include images of animals or faces in clouds, seeing the man in the moon, and hearing messages on records played in reverse.

The human being has become "hard-wired" to identify the human face, for unresponsive infants tended to be ignored or abandoned, as Carl Sagan noted in The Demon-Haunted World.

Skeptics assert that sightings of religious or iconic figures in everyday objects, such as Marian apparitions, are examples of pareidolia, as are electronic voice phenomena. The Face on Mars is a phenomenon that succeded the Martian canals, both eventually attributed to pareidolia, when the "seen" images disappeared in better and more numerous images. So many Canadians thought they saw the face of the Devil in the Queen's hair on a dollar bill in the 1954 series, adapted from a photograph, that the bills were withdrawn from circulation.



[This message has been edited by SmokeWhiskey (edited 07-07-2005).]

Sure there's a whole bunch of "Mary" or "Jesus" sightings every year. Most of those people are idiots.

But you can't claim that all those people who saw the Virgin Mary in Egypt all have some mental phenomena.

And as for the lady of Guadalupe. How can you possibly explain that?

Usually science baffles religion, however in these cases, religion baffles science.



[This message has been edited by Happy Jimmy (edited 07-07-2005).]

Nobody knows what either of those people look like though.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

Nobody knows what either of those people look like though.

But how can you explain it?

It's called coincidence and wishfull thinking. Don't you think God has better thing to do than make blury images of his family in everyday objects?

quote:Originally posted by Happy Jimmy:



But you can't claim that all those people who saw the Virgin Mary in Egypt all have some mental phenomena.

Mass hallucination is a fact. It has been recorded and reproduced. So please don't say that we cannot possibly claim that they all had the same "mental phenomena" when its clearly possible, and in fact, fairly common.

quote:

And as for the lady of Guadalupe. How can you possibly explain that?



Explain what? There's a painting in a apron of the Virgin. We're not supposed to explain anything, you are supposed to explain just how exactly it got there.

It's not us that want to parade that apron around as a fact, it's you and other believers who want to do so, so I suggest you get going on proving your claims.

The whole point of the thread is you shifting the burden of proof. Believers haven't proved anything, so non-believes don't have to "say" anything. You have the burden of proof, not us; your claims remain unproven until you prove them.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-07-2005).]

[quote]http://imagegallery.webspawner.com/listGallery.asp[quote]

What the hell is with all the anti-freemason stuff?

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Explain what? There's a painting in a apron of the Virgin. We're not supposed to explain anything, you are supposed to explain just how exactly it got there.

It's not us that want to parade that apron around as a fact, it's you and other believers who want to do so, so I suggest you get going on proving your claims.

The whole point of the thread is you shifting the burden of proof. Believers haven't proved anything, so non-believes don't have to "say" anything. You have the burden of proof, not us; your claims remain unproven until you prove them.

Face it Rust, you can't explain it, so you have to resort to debate http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif).

We believers don't need to prove anything, because we believe that Mary appeared to Juan on the hill, and he was instructed to tell the bishop...blah blah blah. I'm not typing up all that shit now. Just read the links that I posted.

It's you atheists who need to prove something, since you are pro-science. This image has left scientists dumbfounded. So just how is science supposed to explain this?

Anyways, I'm not getting into one of your lengthy debates, I'm too lazy.

I think christians who believe this have some explaining to do.

Why is it that the virgin marry and Jesus always appear looking white and european? Why is it that these images always resemble the paintings and statues that everyone knows, and that are most likely inaccurate?

Nope, Rust is right. The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.

Scientists haven't explained every UFO sightings, that doesn't mean aliens are here and conspiring with our government.

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

I think christians who believe this have some explaining to do.

Why is it that the virgin marry and Jesus always appear looking white and european? Why is it that these images always resemble the paintings and statues that everyone knows, and that are most likely inaccurate?

liek omg b cuz itz racizt!!!

http://www.prodigyweb.net.mx/luissancheza/Guadalupe.jpg

Remember, Jesus and Mary were Hebrew/Israeli, So they probably looked fairly caucasian.

She has dark hair, and she vaguely has a tan. "Middle Eastern" enough for you?

What we're talking about is not an ordinary painting.



[This message has been edited by Happy Jimmy (edited 07-07-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

Nope, Rust is right. The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.

Scientists haven't explained every UFO sightings, that doesn't mean aliens are here and conspiring with our government.

Wouldn't you think the government would want to keep it a secret to maintain order? Or perhaps to gain better knowledge of them and their technology?

Anyways, that argument belongs in Conspiracy , I'm sure Rust could tell you that.

UFOs aren't exposed to the public. So whatever tests goes on with whatever alien spacecraft, that's all done behind closed doors.

This image is open to the public. With all our scientific knowledge these days, you would think that scientists would be able to find out what this is made of. But no, they can't.

LoL I think I rest my case. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Happy Jimmy:

Face it Rust, you can't explain it, so you have to resort to debate http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif).

We believers don't need to prove anything, because we believe that Mary appeared to Juan on the hill, and he was instructed to tell the bishop...blah blah blah. I'm not typing up all that shit now. Just read the links that I posted.

It's you atheists who need to prove something, since you are pro-science. This image has left scientists dumbfounded. So just how is science supposed to explain this?

Anyways, I'm not getting into one of your lengthy debates, I'm too lazy.

Debate!?!?! Run for the hills! God forbid a Christian acutally debate something, and denfend their beliefs... and you have gall to paint it as if I'm the bad guy for wanting to debate... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Again, you're parading around these things and claiming that they are true, so it is up to you, not me, to prove them correct.

That's called the BURDEN OF PROOF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof)

Until you prove them to be correct, that is, until you meet your burden of proof, they remain unfounded, unconfirmed, unsupported, and untruthful.

So get to it.

What do you want me to prove?

Oh, and this isn't a court case and I'm not a lawyer. So go figure.

Read. It clearly states that the burden of proof also applies to scenarios not related with the legal system.

Stop abandoning logic and reason to defend your beliefs.

If we abandon the burden of proof, I could say that Jesus Christ came to me and said that all "visions" in the history of man, beside this one, have been false... and you would totally believe me and not want me to provide proof of this, right? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

--

What do I want you to prove? Prove to me that somebody did not paint the image of the Virgin in the apron.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

What do I want you to prove? Prove to me that somebody did not paint the image of the Virgin in the apron.

Just how am I supposed to do that? That's impossible. I guess your strategy of trying to put me in a tight situation has worked.

I can already see where this argument is going. Blah blah the people in Egypt were hallucinating and smoking opium, blah blah the tilma is fake and the image was painted by a human.

quote:Originally posted by Happy Jimmy:

Just how am I supposed to do that? That's impossible. I guess your strategy of trying to put me in a tight situation has worked.

I can already see where this argument is going. Blah blah the people in Egypt were hallucinating and smoking opium, blah blah the tilma is fake and the image was painted by a human.

It's impossible? Then how about next time not parading them as if they are real?

Sorry, but you're not going to pin this on me. You decide to parade them as real. So it would be up to you to support that claim. If you knew that you couldn't, then you shouldn't have parade them as real to begin with, right? It's easy enough.

Also, you certainly do not see where the argument is going, since I don't have to go there. Your argument remains unfounded, unconfirmed, and unsupported. Now that is what "non-believers" have to say about that.

Religion hardly baffles science in this case Jimmy. Ever heard of Ochams Razor? the most logical explanation is almost always the correct one? Is it that logical to believe that God created those images?

I'm not paying out religion, I reserve my judgement until I can make informed decisions about this sort of thing, I just dont think that those pictures prove anything really.

Also, you can hardly argue Mary and Jesus would have been white. Think of it this way. The Arabs and Jews look fairly similar. Some Arabs it is REALLY obvious they are of Arabic descent, while others you couldn't for the life of you say they were Arabic. Also, Palestine was a Roman colony at that time, and King Herrod was a Greek. Many settlers from Greece, Italy, and others parts of Europe were living in Palestine at that point. As a result, it would stand to reason that there is no proof that Jesus and/or Mary were white, or black, or Arabic, althought the fact that there were a lot more Arabs and other people with non-caucasian roots would seem to suggest that it is more likely they were not white.

I've recently witnessed sightings of Mary around the top of my cock. How do you explain that?!

I'm sorry, Happy Jimmy...the world is ravaged by poverty, hunger, war etc...and God's miracles are focused on pretty paintings? Sure, that makes a believer out of me in a second!

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

What do believers have to say about the holy ghost having a microscopic cock?

anythig they want ,still doesnt change the fact the holy ghost has a small cock.....



i could say anythingn i wanted about those pictures but i decided to treat you like mental patien- christian.

Boo pop flow to the left. Four and sixpence will buy you ...anything you want ,send up the sails heave ho . And mary said "the Pie was exquisite" and i said "four four four and sicpence will buy you a pie.

God ... god is dog backwards ...so god is ....a .....dog .....

or a fish .... a dog fish .... hey ,god is a dog fish. .... or i spose a catfish ,i dont want to discriminate fosh.

and mary is yram backwards ....so mary is a yram.... and virgin is nigriv backwards ...so .... nigriv yram si a erohw.

llup ruoy daeh tuo fo ruoy ssa dawkcid



i 'nikcuf etah snaitsirhc.

Jimmy, if you ever link to such bullshit with such ridiculously loud fucking music again I will castrate you with a rusty spoon...who knows, maybe the scar will look like Mary.

Edit: "During the same visit Pope John Paul II entrusted the cause of life to her loving protection, and placed under her motherly care the innocent lives of children, especially those who are in danger of not being born."

That's in relation to Mary's Basilica in Mexico City...well damn, Mary's no good at her job with all the stillbirths and abortions still going on.

[This message has been edited by Televangelism Rapist (edited 07-07-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by JesuitArtiste:

anythig they want ,still doesnt change the fact the holy ghost has a small cock.....



i could say anythingn i wanted about those pictures but i decided to treat you like mental patien- christian.

Boo pop flow to the left. Four and sixpence will buy you ...anything you want ,send up the sails heave ho . And mary said "the Pie was exquisite" and i said "four four four and sicpence will buy you a pie.

God ... god is dog backwards ...so god is ....a .....dog .....

or a fish .... a dog fish .... hey ,god is a dog fish. .... or i spose a catfish ,i dont want to discriminate fosh.

and mary is yram backwards ....so mary is a yram.... and virgin is nigriv backwards ...so .... nigriv yram si a erohw.

llup ruoy daeh tuo fo ruoy ssa dawkcid



i 'nikcuf etah snaitsirhc.

And you...what are you on, and where can I get it?

I suppose you get a woody every time someone finds a piece of toast that "has the virgin mary's face on it" and sells it on e-bay? I was watching the daily show on comedy central once, and they had a segment where they showed some guy in India who had a soiled bedsheet where the stains formed the image of mary. Now THAT is a real miracle. Things like this happen, and it sure as hell isn't a definitive sign that your deity of choice exists. But, if it helps you sleep at night, more power to you.

The fact is, a simple image doesn't prove a thing about most of the miraculous claims made in the bible.

God damn, this forum is biased. I'd say about 70-80% are agnostic or atheist.

I'm glad this is my first and only thread in here.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

What do believers have to say about the holy ghost having a microscopic cock?

quote:Originally posted by Happy Jimmy:

God damn, this forum is biased. I'd say about 70-80% are agnostic or atheist.

I'm glad this is my first and only thread in here.

Well, given that you can't even deal with the issue reasonably, then I too am glad that this will be your "only thread in here". That's exactly what we need. Christians who give up easilly.

quote:Originally posted by Happy Jimmy:

God damn, this forum is biased. I'd say about 70-80% are agnostic or atheist.

I'm glad this is my first and only thread in here.

Intelligence is bias? We're pretty open minded, but not "talking snake" and "talking burning bush" type of open minded. That's what LSD is for. Religion is for dumb people.

quote:Originally posted by Televangelism Rapist:

And you...what are you on, and where can I get it?

One must follow the mary ,the nigriv.

One must follow the bush

her bush

and burn the bush

and then the ashes must be gathered

and thrown into the air.

And if it looks like jesus or mary or a magic sheep

you know you're insan- high....

quote:Originally posted by Happy Jimmy:

God damn, this forum is biased. I'd say about 70-80% are agnostic or atheist.

I'm glad this is my first and only thread in here.

Take this shit over to some Christian forum if you want someone to support what you believe and not even dare to question.

Why must you call people nonbelievers? They're just people, they didn't subscribe to this bullshit so why do you have to label them just 'cause you did?

quote:Originally posted by Jasper Jones:

I say you type out a short explanation of just what the hell your posting about or take your shit to IFIOTW.

he has a very valid suggestion my friend. start actually working on your fucking threads and expecting to be popular or wahtever it is you newbs try to do.

quote:Originally posted by zik:

I'm an emo kid with pink hair, who's always depressed and cuts his arm. I cry and piss myself at night.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I call people non-believers, because they're atheists. Will you be needing the dictionary definition of "atheist"? You seem to be offended by the term "non-believer" ,yet you call this "bullshit". Hmmm...you're a smart one aren't you http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)?

quote:Originally posted by eXo5:

he has a very valid suggestion my friend. start actually working on your fucking threads and expecting to be popular or wahtever it is you newbs try to do.

I have a very valid suggestion, asshole. Learn to use your shift key.

FYI-this isn't my first account. Wintermute banned me last week.

Insults? Brilliant.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Insults? Brilliant.

http://tinypic.com/6ykyu8.jpg

You make this too easy!

When did Rust and Val become mods?

Couple of days ago for me. Conspiracy! needed a mod.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Couple of days ago for me. Conspiracy! needed a mod.

Congratulations then.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Couple of days ago for me. Conspiracy! needed a mod.

Conspiracy needed more than new mod, they needed a full-time janitor to delete any and all worthless threads that come through here.

Read: All, especially this one.

Snoopy, do you ever post anything informative?

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

It's called coincidence and wishfull thinking. Don't you think God has better thing to do than make blury images of his family in everyday objects?

Best point on Totse so far ! *ding ding*

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Debate!?!?! Run for the hills! God forbid a Christian acutally debate something, and denfend their beliefs... and you have gall to paint it as if I'm the bad guy for wanting to debate... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Excuse me, but don't insinuate that Christians DON'T do a fair amount of defending here. I do it all the time, and so does Xtreem. That was an unfair generlization, but I do hope you feel better now. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

By the way, I will just beat ya to the punch, because I know what you are going to say: NO, whether we defend ourselves to the point of refuting evolution/atheism/etc. is NOT relevant.

The point remains, we DO defend, if nothing else. *lol*

First of all, I would like to say that THIS IS CRAP, Jimmy.

First, nobody knows what Mary looked like, as was pointed out earlier.

Second, when we pass from our physical bodies, we receive our glorified bodies, which are our SOULS. This is clearly written out in the Bible. If you'd like the verses, I'll provide them.

This means that if these apparitions were truly Mary, nobody would know who she was, just by looking at her.

Last, how many times in the Bible was it said that ANYONE who had passed over into Heaven was seen by MASSIVE CROWDS OF PEOPLE ? Lazarus...nope. Elijah...nope. Jesus...nope. Moses....nope. The list could go on and on. This is NOT how God operates, and this is clearly reflected in the Bible.

I would also like to point out that God doesn't need Mary. She is a soul, just like everyone else. She was blessed to carry Jesus in her womb, and nothing more. She can't do anything for you, just as St. Peter can't.

Of all the saints it makes the LEAST amount of sense for God to send an apparition of MARY ! Now, Paul the Apostle ? Now THAT I might believe. he actually had something important to say, and it was about Jesus. Not himself.

The pictures are fuzzy and inconclusive, and I can do a better doctoring job on my FREE rendering suite: Blender.

By the way, Jews in Jesus day (and even now) were NOT light skinned. You might wanna do some homework on that. You can't escape sounding uneducated now, since you already put it out there, but you can at least try to avoid it in the future.

*hands him his one way ticket out the back door*

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Excuse me, but don't insinuate that Christians DON'T do a fair amount of defending here. I do it all the time, and so does Xtreem. That was an unfair generlization, but I do hope you feel better now. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

By the way, I will just beat ya to the punch, because I know what you are going to say: NO, whether we defend ourselves to the point of refuting evolution/atheism/etc. is NOT relevant.

The point remains, we DO defend, if nothing else. *lol*

I said a Christian, which HE is, or at least I assume he is. I'm speaking of him, not you or anyone else.

But since you just volunteered yourself, tell me, is this more of your self-martyrdom or do you have something to confess? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Nephtys-Ra:

Conspiracy needed more than new mod, they needed a full-time janitor to delete any and all worthless threads that come through here.

Read: All, especially this one.



... You're in 'My God Can Beat...' not in Conspiracy! I can't delete this one even if I wanted to.