is it true taht christians can't eat lobsters and crabs and seafood which doesnt have scales or fins?? i found it while grazing through the old tetament and it struck me as wierd... any thoughts?

no

Kashrus=Jewish.

No diet restrictions=Christian.

No meat on Friday=Catholic.

except Catholics are christians.

just that Catholics have the most rules and are the most craziest.

I don't think it's a sin to for Catholics to eat meat on friday any more. I don't know the basis for the rule but if they repeal it it probably is not from scripture. I think the only restrictions on food they have are during Lent and not eating for a few hour before recieving communion, because you don't want Jesus to get mixed up with the normal food or something.

Also New York tap water has little crustations swiming aroung in it so Jewish people are not suposed to drink it. If I go to New York I don't think I will either.

[This message has been edited by MasterPython (edited 07-09-2005).]

No. That's Jews. It's called being kosher. Kosher means "clean". Imagine you lived in the desert and a guy on camel back comes up to you with a lobster. How fresh do you think that lobster would be? Not too fresh.

They also don't eat pork because pigs can sense death and the adrenaline in their system ruins the meat before they die.

And the fish without fins of scales thing goes with the no shell fish thing: they're all bottom feeders. They feed off the crap of other fish. So, they consider that dirty.

Cheers,

Lost

So would pork taste diferent if you killed the pig by cutting it's head off with a katana rather than shooting it in the head with a nial gun or cutting it's throat like they do now?

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

No meat on Friday=Catholic.

*Only during Lent. That's more lenient than ever these days. Some people don't even follow it.

My uncle doesn't eat meat on any Friday. He's Catholic.

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

No meat on Friday=Catholic.

I don't know any Catholics who follow that rule aside from during Lent, and I've lived in a strong Catholic family and gone to a Catholic school for my entire life.

I'm not Catholic, though.

Would it be kosher to remove a pig's adrenal gland, let the adrenaline all clear its system, then slaughter it using kosher methods?

11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you

11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

^^^That's from the old testament^^^

Isnt the old testament the infalliable word of God? In which case why is it taht only catholics and jews go by this rule and the rest of the christians dont?

Judaism has always held that the laws of Kashrus do not apply to gentiles. They are a matter of spiritual purity and health that are neccessary for the chosen people to serve God. We are to be a priestly nation, for the lay (i.e. the rest of the world) such restrictions are of no use. As a people who has not received the Torah, you cannot attain the kind of spiritual purity necessary to serve God in the ritualistic sense implied by the Temple and the 613 commandments. Abide by the 7 laws of Noah and you get a place in the World to Come. No more responsibility than that, if you're a gentile.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

No. That's Jews. It's called being kosher. Kosher means "clean". Imagine you lived in the desert and a guy on camel back comes up to you with a lobster. How fresh do you think that lobster would be? Not too fresh.

They also don't eat pork because pigs can sense death and the adrenaline in their system ruins the meat before they die.

And the fish without fins of scales thing goes with the no shell fish thing: they're all bottom feeders. They feed off the crap of other fish. So, they consider that dirty.

Cheers,

Lost

Funny how chicken is the dirties of all those animals, yet all cultures stuff their face with chicken. I hate chicken.

Besides, that thing you said about pork makes no sense. When the animal is slaughtered ritually, which basically means bleeding it to death by cutting its throat, it won't die instantly, and every animal will have an adrenaline rush for several minutes before it dies. And how the hell does adrenaline spoil the meat anyway?

Crazy religious freaks believe in all kinds of whacky shit.

what so you get to decide which parts of the book--which is supposedly the word of God--you believe in and which youi dont? come on christians?!? i thought the old testament was the infalliable word of God!! when there's an instruction in there you guys follow.....?? right? im confused--how can you pick and choose bits and pieces of the word of God? http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Sarith:

what so you get to decide which parts of the book--which is supposedly the word of God--you believe in and which youi dont? come on christians?!? i thought the old testament was the infalliable word of God!! when there's an instruction in there you guys follow.....?? right? im confused--how can you pick and choose bits and pieces of the word of God? http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

Ignorance++...Sephiroth already explained that shit, and besides, there are a few Christian groups that follow Judaic law along with the NT.

quote:Originally posted by Sarith:

i thought the old testament was the infalliable word of God!! when there's an instruction in there you guys follow.....?? right? im confused--how can you pick and choose bits and pieces of the word of God? :

I believe if Jesus personaly says something is ok you can ignore the older books. You don't need to stone adulterous women because Jesus told the people to go ahead but "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". He also said that "it is not was goes into your mouth that makes you unclean but what come outs" or something like that. I don't think that stop people from picking and choosing wich part of the word of God they want to follow. There are actualy large parts of the Bible that are not cannon by many denominations because their acuracy is in doubt.

so how do these groups ascertain the accuracy of the Bible? \\

Not exactly sure. Probably have lots of clergy and scholars go over it. Check all the diferent versions of the same text availible and see how they fit in with the rest of the Bible.

http://www.bessel.org/bibles.htm

That shows the diferences between what some denominations use.

quote:Originally posted by Sarith:

what so you get to decide which parts of the book--which is supposedly the word of God--you believe in and which youi dont? come on christians?!? i thought the old testament was the infalliable word of God!! when there's an instruction in there you guys follow.....?? right? im confused--how can you pick and choose bits and pieces of the word of God? http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

Who are you talking to ?

I do'nt pick and choose. There are lots of parts I would do without, but that is because I am human, and flawed.

quote:Originally posted by Sarith:

so how do these groups ascertain the accuracy of the Bible? \\

It was a long, crazy process...and there is still much debate about how accurate any of them are.

The formation of the Old Testament canon was gradual, and was composed of the writings which spread over many centuries.

Moses commanded that the books of the law be placed in the ark. This--with the addition of the book of Joshua--was done, and the sacred books were kept there during the wilderness journey, and also were in the ark during its permanent residence in Jerusalem. (Deuteronomy 31:9,26, cf. 2 Kings 22:8; Joshua 24:26; 1 Samuel 10:25.)

Then were gathered and placed in the temple the historical and prophetical books from Joshua to David's time. On the construction of the temple Solomon deposited in it the earlier books (2 Kings 22:8, Isaiah 34:16), and enriched the collection with inspired writings from his own pen, and also some prophetic writings. So we find Daniel (9:2, R.V.) referring to "the books," Isaiah to "the book of the Lord" (29:18, 34:16).

After Solomon's day a succession of prophets arose, Jonah, Amos, Isaiah, Hosea, Joel, Micah, Nahum, Zephaniah, Jeremiah, Obadiah, and Habakkuk. These all flourished before the destruction of the temple, and enlarged the collection of existing sacred books by valuable additions.

After the Babylonian capture, when the temple was rebuilt and worship re-established, then doubtless were added the writings of Haggai and Zechariah.

About fifty years after the temple was rebuilt Ezra made a collection of the sacred writings (Neh. 8:2,3,14). To this collection were added the writings of Nehemiah, Malachi, and Ezra. It is a fact of history that Nehemiah gathered the "Acts of the Kings and the Prophets, and those of David," when founding a library for the second temple, 432 B.C. (See 2 Maccabees 2:13).

The canon of the Old Testament in the form we now have it, was the work of Ezra and the Great Synagogue. This fact is borne witness to in the most ancient Jewish writings. The Great Synagogue was composed of Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi. There is no doubt but that such a collection of books existed in the time of our Lord and the apostles (Luke 24:27,44).

The New Testament canon was gradually added to that of the Old Testament. But it was some considerable time after our Lord's ascension before any of the books contained in it were actually written.

The first and most important work of the apostles was to deliver a personal testimony to the chief facts of the Gospel history (Mark 16:15; Acts 1:21,22). Their teaching was at first oral, and it was no part of their intention to create a permanent literature. A cycle of selected representative facts sufficed to form the groundwork of their oral Gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-10).

But in the course of time many endeavored to commit to writing this oral Gospel (Luke 1:1-4). So long as the apostles were still living, the necessity for written records of the words and actions of our Lord was not so pressing. But when the time came for their removal from this world, it became extremely important the authoritative records should be put forth. Thus the Gospels came into existence, two by apostles themselves, and two by friends and close companions of the apostles.

But already had arisen another kind of composition. Founders of churches, often unable to visit them personally, desired to communicate with their converts for purposes of counsel, reproof, and instruction. Thus arose the Epistles, which were put forth from time to time to meet special needs and emergencies.

The persecution of Diocletian (302 A.D.) brought to the front the question of the sacred literature of the church. The persecutors demanded that the Scriptures should be given up. This the Christians refused to do. Hence the question became urgent--What books are apostolic? The answer lies in our New Testament. There were at that time many false and spurious gospels and epistles. Careful, prayerful, and deliberate examination, however, proved which were genuine and which were false. The genuine were received by the church as the inspired writings of the apostles and others whose names the books bear. Thus arose the New Testament canon.

The rest can be found here:

~ http://www.anabaptists.org/history/howwegot.html

The verification for Jews is National Revalation. While the rest of the books of the bible, prophets, writings, et cetera, arrived gradually and contain part-history part-divine revelation, attributed to prophets and individuals who spoke with God, the Torah itself was given after God spoke to the entire nation assembled.

Some of my favourite articles on the subject:

http://tinyurl.com/93pat

http://tinyurl.com/8qob7

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Funny how chicken is the dirties of all those animals, yet all cultures stuff their face with chicken. I hate chicken.

Besides, that thing you said about pork makes no sense. When the animal is slaughtered ritually, which basically means bleeding it to death by cutting its throat, it won't die instantly, and every animal will have an adrenaline rush for several minutes before it dies. And how the hell does adrenaline spoil the meat anyway?

Crazy religious freaks believe in all kinds of whacky shit.

No. 1: I don't believe in it.

No. 2: It's not a religious thing. It's a Jewish thing.

No. 3: I don't know how adrenaline fucks up the meat, but according to butchers, it does.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

No. 3: I don't know how adrenaline fucks up the meat, but according to butchers, it does.

Well if that's the case, then all the meat we eat is fucked up.

unless you shoot em in the back of the head http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

Kashrus=Jewish.

No diet restrictions=Christian.

No meat on Friday=Catholic.



I'm not Jewish and I don't eat unclean meat. Those laws are in the christian bible, it's just that most christians ignore it(and half the other concepts as well)

What's this "unclean" meat you speak of?!

Cannibal question...

Can you eat a catholic on fridays, and what about Jews? Are they 'kosher'?

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

What's this "unclean" meat you speak of?!

Your whole body, dawg... your whole body. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by jesus-loves-donuts:

Cannibal question...

Can you eat a catholic on fridays, and what about Jews? Are they 'kosher'?

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/sexual_discharges/lv15_16a.html

If they are not unclean all the time they definatly are in the above circumstances.

There is a verse that can either be interperated as against canabalism that the Jahova's Witnesses see as against blood tranfusions.

quote:Originally posted by KISE:



I'm not Jewish and I don't eat unclean meat. Those laws are in the christian bible, it's just that most christians ignore it(and half the other concepts as well)

exactly what i was getting at...

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Well if that's the case, then all the meat we eat is fucked up.

Nah, most animals are too dumb to know they're about to be killed. You can shoot them in the back of the head or something, though. But, then the meat is contaminated with lead.

I think for something to be kosher it has to be killed from having it's throat slit, it can't have any blood left in it (because the spirit is in the blood supposedly), and it has to be blessed by a rabbi.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

it has to be blessed by a rabbi.



If by 'blessed', you mean 'tortured to death', then , yeah. Kosher rules are sick and have no place in modern society, much like circumcision; blowing yourself and others to pieces, snake handling, veils for women, 'chosen' races, and restricting liquor sales on Sunday.

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

I don't know any Catholics who follow that rule aside from during Lent, and I've lived in a strong Catholic family and gone to a Catholic school for my entire life.



Is that also why you're not catholic? Cause thats why my mom is not Catholic

Edit-Whatever happened to just following the 10 commandments and begging forgiveness from god whenever you break them, and, does the Bible/Torah, ever state that god himself, wants you to keep kosher, stay clean, not eat meat on fridays etc?

I honestly don't know, personally I just ry to follow the 10 commandments as best I can, can't be perfect though (in fact I'm far from it, beg forgiveness), and accept Jesus (I'm Christian)

[This message has been edited by moss2455 (edited 07-13-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by SmokeWhiskey:

If by 'blessed', you mean 'tortured to death', then , yeah. Kosher rules are sick and have no place in modern society,

Kosher rules are actualy alot nicer to the animals than modern meat procesing plants. In a kosher plant the animal has it's throat cut by a wickedly sharp blade weilded by a skilled individual. In a modern plant they are killed either by automated throat cutter for birds witch don't always work properly, or a air gun to the head for large animals, also easy to fuck up.

quote:Originally posted by moss2455:

Is that also why you're not catholic? Cause thats why my mom is not Catholic

Edit-Whatever happened to just following the 10 commandments and begging forgiveness from god whenever you break them, and, does the Bible/Torah, ever state that god himself, wants you to keep kosher, stay clean, not eat meat on fridays etc?

I honestly don't know, personally I just ry to follow the 10 commandments as best I can, can't be perfect though (in fact I'm far from it, beg forgiveness), and accept Jesus (I'm Christian)



There are 613 commandments in the Torah for Jews. While some apply only to women, and some to men in certain circumstances, they are to be revered and adhered to, according to Judaic tradition.

God gave the Jews the dietary laws so that they could stay healthy, and therefore have a "one up" on the rest of the world. Those that did not follow these dietary laws fell victim to plagues, parasites, and other undesirables, which were all potentially fatal.

God wanted the Jews to be superior - to survive.

Because of the NT, it is not so important to follow them for health reasons, but for ceremonial reasons, sure. And the Hassidics, and even most Messianic Jews do. To them, it is a display of obedience to God.

How Christianity and Judaism come together is both beautiful and strange.

Just do your best to understand them both, and how they compliment each other.

The Jews are, after all, God's chosen.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

There are 613 commandments in the Torah for Jews. While some apply only to women, and some to men in certain circumstances, they are to be revered and adhered to, according to Judaic tradition.

God gave the Jews the dietary laws so that they could stay healthy, and therefore have a "one up" on the rest of the world. Those that did not follow these dietary laws fell victim to plagues, parasites, and other undesirables, which were all potentially fatal.

God wanted the Jews to be superior - to survive.

Because of the NT, it is not so important to follow them for health reasons, but for ceremonial reasons, sure. And the Hassidics, and even most Messianic Jews do. To them, it is a display of obedience to God.

How Christianity and Judaism come together is both beautiful and strange.

Just do your best to understand them both, and how they compliment each other.

The Jews are, after all, God's chosen.

Thank you, I've been trying to figure that out for so long and I'm to lazy to google it.

quote:Originally posted by moss2455:

Is that also why you're not catholic? Cause thats why my mom is not Catholic



No. I could deal with not eating meat on Fridays. In fact, I do, because I still have to follow their Catholic rules as long as I live in their house.

I'm not Catholic because I dislike organized religion and I find the whole Jesus-aspect to be a bit far-fetched.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

You don't need to stone adulterous women because Jesus told the people to go ahead but "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Wouldn't that be Jesus himself? So why didn't Jesus stone the whore?

quote:He also said that "it is not was goes into your mouth that makes you unclean but what come outs"

Vomit!



[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 07-15-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Maccabee:

Your whole body, dawg... your whole body. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Jews only shower in Zyklon B. You're smelly.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I think for something to be kosher it has to be killed from having it's throat slit, it can't have any blood left in it (because the spirit is in the blood supposedly), and it has to be blessed by a rabbi.

When you cut an animal's throat, it doesn't die instantly. In fact, it will suffer for approximately 5 minutes greatly, which is more than enough to release an insane amount of adrenaline into its system. I've slaughtered a shitload of pigs and sheep.

So by what you've said, all the meat that comes from ritually slaughtered animals is spoiled.

Again, a bunch of rules that don't make sense. Last time we slaughtered a pig, I wanted to do it with a chainsaw, but my whole family got pissed at me cause it wasn't following some dumbshit traditions. What good is a fucking chainsaw if you can't use it to hack up domestic animals? I fucking told them they can all go die twice and went to a classy restaurant with them hos!

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Would it be kosher to remove a pig's adrenal gland, let the adrenaline all clear its system, then slaughter it using kosher methods?

There are kosher methods to slaughting pork, and there is kosher pork. But, it's rare.

Cheers,

Lost

The reason why pork is unkosher is not because of some crazy adrenaline thing. It's because if pork is not cooked just right it can contain all sorts of crazy lethal parasites. One, known as tricknosis (sp?) is a tiny little worm that borrows through your muscle tissue, eating as much as it can while it goes. Also, if not preserved correctly, pork can go very bad very quickly. That's why deli ham is hevily salted.

Now in the world of today where we have refrigerators and grills and such, and even in the world of 2,000 years ago when things were cooked properly, these rules are unnessecary. However in the world of 4,000 years ago, when things were usually cooked with a stick over a spit, if they were cooked at all, a prohibition on such meats was necessary.

Same thing with shellfish. Even nowadays if you get a bad hit off of those things you can be out of comission for a day or two. No one wants that.

You can get BSE from beef. BSE is badass.