first off, is satan a "fallen angel"? meaning satan was good, but later became evil.

now if that was true, and god truely is omnipotent, why didnt god stop him? furthermore, why did god start sending his creations to the one that betrayed him?

now if i have it wrong, and god created satan to be evil and ruler of hell, then let me ask you this:

why would an all-loving and all-knowing god create a place of unimagenable and internal suffering to send his creations to when theyve been "bad".

again im not trying to start anything. im not an atheist, but im not religious and notions like these are totally bizzare to me.

The hell you're talking about doesn't exist. Earth is hell. Earth is where Satan lives, amongst us. He is here to tempt the weak. It's a test of strength to not be tempted.

Kindbud, where are you from? What kind of chronic are blowing on? I'm from the bay, CA and right now I have the cinderella 99, the catpiss, afghani and sensi star.

quote:Originally posted by KISE:

The hell you're talking about doesn't exist. Earth is hell. Earth is where Satan lives, amongst us. He is here to tempt the weak. It's a test of strength to not be tempted.

is that the christian view of hell? i thought it was more like, "when you die, 'god' will judge you by your actions on earth and either send you to hell or let you into heaven".

and trainwreck

quote:Originally posted by KISE:

Kindbud, where are you from? What kind of chronic are blowing on? I'm from the bay, CA and right now I have the cinderella 99, the catpiss, afghani and sensi star.

massachusettes and kind bud is the only weed i ever smoke http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by kindbud:

is that the christian view of hell? i thought it was more like, "when you die, 'god' will judge you by your actions on earth and either send you to hell or let you into heaven".

Most christian churches don't obey the bible. This vision of hell is made up to scare people. If you're not chosen, you will simply rot into the dirt and become a memory. If you are chosen you will be granted eternal life to live in a perfect government ran by God. The bible also says to go to church on Saturday rather than sunday. The modern church is a blend of christian and pagan beliefs. Sunday is really the day of the sun, where you worship the ancient sun deity. Christmas and Easter are also of pagan origin. The real holidays are passover, feast of tabernacles etc.

The cross is also a pagan symbol

quote:Originally posted by kindbud:

is that the christian view of hell? i thought it was more like, "when you die, 'god' will judge you by your actions on earth and either send you to hell or let you into heaven".

This is weird. But last year, I asked this Jehovah's Witness guy. He is the kind that goes around giving people private Bible study (not just the typical knock-on-door and does a nice little introduce ones), so he must have a deep understanding of his beliefs.

Anyway, he told me that hell doesn't exist, albeit not how we think of it. People picture

hell as a "fiery pit" where you will be "eternally tortured" by "demons". He explained to me that the word 'hell' is derived from a Greek word (or any other ancient, foreign languange) which originally means "common grave". So, he said that bad people or non-believers they just die. They simply cease to exist. But, believers get to live forever in heaven.

[This message has been edited by quasicurus (edited 07-11-2005).]

God deemed it better to bring good out of evil, than not to allow evil to exist

quote:Originally posted by KISE:

The cross is also a pagan symbol

why?

quote:Originally posted by Lou Reed:

why?



goes back to constantine and the worship of the sun.

quote:Originally posted by KISE:

Kindbud, where are you from? What kind of chronic are blowing on? I'm from the bay, CA and right now I have the cinderella 99, the catpiss, afghani and sensi star.

Weed is for dumbshit teenagers. Go get killed in a school shooting, please.

Satan is supposedly Lucifer: "The angel of light" and he's supposed to be gods most trusted angel. When god decided to create humans he granted Lucifer temporary freewill to ask him if he thought it was a good idea. Lucifer said 'no' and so god granted him angels and his own domain where he could devise ways to fuck up people.

But, he can't do anything without gods consent.

Cheers,

Lost

Could you cite your source of that Lost?

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Satan is supposedly Lucifer: "The angel of light" and he's supposed to be gods most trusted angel. When god decided to create humans he granted Lucifer temporary freewill to ask him if he thought it was a good idea. Lucifer said 'no' and so god granted him angels and his own domain where he could devise ways to fuck up people.

But, he can't do anything without gods consent.

Cheers,

Lost

Wouldn't that make God directly responsible for all the "evil" in this world? All that evil over a stupid wager. Isn't gambling a sin anyway? It is more and more clear to me that religion is in fact the opposite of intelligence.

oh boy, you get my opinion now.

quote:Originally posted by kindbud:

first off, is satan a "fallen angel"? meaning satan was good, but later became evil.

jehova and satan/lucifer are part of one race. they are called Annunakai.(sp?) they would be outcast from their society if one killed the other. they still waged war, but neither died.

[QUOTE]

furthermore, why did god start sending his creations to the one that betrayed him?[QUOTE]

they werent his creations. and only followers of satan continue on to hell in death. everyone else goes to heaven. whether thats good or bad, i dunno. but i dont want to find out.

quote:Wouldn't that make God directly responsible for all the "evil" in this world? -snoop

yes that is the big problem for mainstream christian thinkers, because they reject dualism.

strange really..they took just about everything else from mithraism just not that. would have made their lives easier if they had,that's for sure.

I bet God used to get bullied in God training school.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

I bet God used to get bullied in God training school.

is that true what was said above that satan was gods most trusted angels since he tempts the weak into sin? Like they co-exist and every thing? May God forgive me if what i just asked was a sin.

quote:Originally posted by howmanytimes13:

is that true what was said above that satan was gods most trusted angels since he tempts the weak into sin? Like they co-exist and every thing? May God forgive me if what i just asked was a sin.

or

like taoists kinda believe,

they are the same only light and dark

KISE: The cross is also a pagan symbol

Lou Reed: why?

jackketch: goes back to constantine and the worship of the sun.

More specifically, the Latin cross (the type usually associated with Christianity) is a pagan symbol. While the Romans typically crucified people on an X or T shaped cross, the Egyptian god Osirus was crucified on a Latin cross. So apparently that's where the church got its imagery of the crucifixion from.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

yes that is the big problem for mainstream christian thinkers, because they reject dualism.

That's actually the way I see the Christian God (after reading the bible many times). I get so many cross faces when I say it, but it really doesn't seem that difficult to understand!

quote:Originally posted by kindbud:

is that the christian view of hell? i thought it was more like, "when you die, 'god' will judge you by your actions on earth and either send you to hell or let you into heaven".

It's the closest to the biblical view of the afterlife as shit gets.

When you die, you either enter heaven or the grave. There is no hell, the Catholics made it up.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

It's the closest to the biblical view of the afterlife as shit gets.

When you die, you either enter heaven or the grave. There is no hell, the Catholics made it up.



uhm sorry ,they also made up heaven (as opposed to the 'Kingdom of Heaven' or the New Earth)

its too late at night to explain the difference but i dare say Seph can give you a working definition of the Kingdom of Heaven...its more his area than mine.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 07-11-2005).]

You people are idiots...

...read a fucking bible.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

KISE: The cross is also a pagan symbol

Lou Reed: why?

jackketch: goes back to constantine and the worship of the sun.

More specifically, the Latin cross (the type usually associated with Christianity) is a pagan symbol. While the Romans typically crucified people on an X or T shaped cross, the Egyptian god Osirus was crucified on a Latin cross. So apparently that's where the church got its imagery of the crucifixion from.



uhm yes and no. christianity supposedly took the cross as its symbol after a vision of constantine (he would be victorious under the sign of the cross),

That of course is twaddle or rather later catholic spin, constantine was the high priest of the sol cult and the cross had been his emblem anyway.

For anything to exist something has to exist as it's exact opposite, to make existence possible for both. If God did exist there would most certainly have to be a Satan. Right there the screw up tells you that Christianity is just symbolic, not at all literal, I believe.

God couldn't have existed before Satan if they are equals, and they are equals otherwise God wouldn't exist.

Reading a bible would help fill in a lot of blanks.

A cross is something meant for infinity I think. It represents how God spreads infinitly in all directions, or someshit. There's a bunch of different explanations, another is how the cross of the 'T' is I think 2/3 of the length of the vertical cross and it's somehow supposed to represent the trinity.

[This message has been edited by AlwaysHigh (edited 07-12-2005).]

jackketch: uhm yes and no. christianity supposedly took the cross as its symbol after a vision of constantine (he would be victorious under the sign of the cross),

That of course is twaddle or rather later catholic spin, constantine was the high priest of the sol cult and the cross had been his emblem anyway.

Very interesting. Could you post some links that go in-depth about it?

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

jackketch: uhm yes and no. christianity supposedly took the cross as its symbol after a vision of constantine (he would be victorious under the sign of the cross),

That of course is twaddle or rather later catholic spin, constantine was the high priest of the sol cult and the cross had been his emblem anyway.

Very interesting. Could you post some links that go in-depth about it?



i'd have to look in the morning cos i'm off to bed now (2am here). but i know for a fact than any university level history of the origins of xtianity will give the full story.

quote:Originally posted by kindbud:

first off, is satan a "fallen angel"? meaning satan was good, but later became evil.

now if that was true, and god truely is omnipotent, why didnt god stop him? furthermore, why did god start sending his creations to the one that betrayed him?

now if i have it wrong, and god created satan to be evil and ruler of hell, then let me ask you this:

why would an all-loving and all-knowing god create a place of unimagenable and internal suffering to send his creations to when theyve been "bad".

again im not trying to start anything. im not an atheist, but im not religious and notions like these are totally bizzare to me.

Why should he? He is not obligated to stop anything from happening unless hr has promised to do so. No where do i read in the Bible that God says he was supposed to stop Lucifer before he rebelled.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Why should he? He is not obligated to stop anything from happening unless hr has promised to do so. No where do i read in the Bible that God says he was supposed to stop Lucifer before he rebelled.

He is obligated to stop it from happening.

If I open a store, and one day during a rainy day, the floor near the entrance gets wet, and as a result someone skid and fell, I would be liable in court for failing to act to prevent foreseeable harm.

quote:Originally posted by kindbud:

first off, is satan a "fallen angel"? meaning satan was good, but later became evil.

now if that was true, and god truely is omnipotent, why didnt god stop him? furthermore, why did god start sending his creations to the one that betrayed him?

now if i have it wrong, and god created satan to be evil and ruler of hell, then let me ask you this:

why would an all-loving and all-knowing god create a place of unimagenable and internal suffering to send his creations to when theyve been "bad".

again im not trying to start anything. im not an atheist, but im not religious and notions like these are totally bizzare to me.



I read about satan or lucifer in the truth book, he was a supreme god before christ's time, a protector of this realm, I read that he was stealing everyones knowledge, which isnt allowed when you become a ruler such as lucifer, it was a rebellion, I belive other immortal gods had to kill satan for he turned evil after he knew eternal life, he was abusing his powers. Maybe they wiped out a planet to kill him? Maybe mars? I belive there isnt anywhere you can send somebody after they have been bad, Its just that after your bad others can make this life hell for you, like sending you to prison. So either this life of yours and mine can be heaven or hell. It is up to you what you do with your life. If you choose jesus's path then you will be in heaven, if you choose lucifers then you will be in hell, or prison, or death.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

jackketch: uhm yes and no. christianity supposedly took the cross as its symbol after a vision of constantine (he would be victorious under the sign of the cross),

That of course is twaddle or rather later catholic spin, constantine was the high priest of the sol cult and the cross had been his emblem anyway.

Very interesting. Could you post some links that go in-depth about it?



http://tinyurl.com/det5f

thats the supposedly historical account from a 'orthodox' view...as taught to all theology students and seminary candidates be they protestant or catholic.

of course they studiously fail to mention which pagan faith he was the high priest of and also the fact that he 1)didn't get baptised until his death bed and 2)he was baptised as an arian (and not a catholic as most assume!).

if i get chance i'll look for something a bit more sexy...

satan was placed in hell as punishment.

All right, thanks Jackketch. I think I'll just go ahead and research it on my own, since I'm running into a lot of contradictory ideas on the subject.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

All right, thanks Jackketch. I think I'll just go ahead and research it on my own, since I'm running into a lot of contradictory ideas on the subject.

well if you turn up anything interesting then do let us know.

quote:Originally posted by malaria:

That's actually the way I see the Christian God (after reading the bible many times). I get so many cross faces when I say it, but it really doesn't seem that difficult to understand!

It is like Abraxas. God of good and evil

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

It's the closest to the biblical view of the afterlife as shit gets.

When you die, you either enter heaven or the grave. There is no hell, the Catholics made it up.

Catholics are Christians all other christian religions broke off from them

quote:Originally posted by your_daemon:

.... all other christian religions broke off from them



wrong, now go read a fuckin' history book.

RETARD!

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 07-13-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by your_daemon:

.... all other christian religions broke off from them

oh btw mr '********' its 'christian denominations or confessions'.



*edit to remove insults cos Val gets upset. suffice to say that i'm betting your IQ is lower than your age.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 07-13-2005).]